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Old 06-22-2012, 06:08 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Acura RLX revealed in production form by patent filing

Quote:
If you're looking for a phrase to capture the excitement of a new flagship sedan, "patent filing" is probably not it. Then again, the 2014 Acura RLX is the replacement for the Acura RL, the least interesting luxury sedan extant. (And yes, we're including Lincoln in that assessment.)

Car and Driver says these images were pulled from a European patent database, claiming that this is, in fact, the new RLX that will go on sale next year. The car pictured in these images adheres quite closely to the RLX Concept displayed at this year's New York Auto Show, with only slight changes to the front and rear fascias and more generic wheels. The side character line that runs from the top of the fender back to the rear door is there, as is the rest of the shape.

In between bashing Acura for its dull design, C&D speculates that the Honda luxury brand may show the production RLX at the Los Angeles Auto Show in November.




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Old 06-22-2012, 07:51 AM   #2
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If you could turn oatmeal into a car, it'd look pretty similar to this.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:35 AM   #3
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I hope Acura is not thinking that just renaming the RL to RLX is going to change people's minds. The RLX concept is nothing revolutionary over the RL, especially if this is intended to be the flagship model. The average consumer is not going to tell the difference between the RLX and RL. I guess Acura is more concerned about adding an "X" to each of their models than actually building a competitive car.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:14 PM   #4
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i have high hopes for this car. eSH-AWD and the new ED motors look pretty sweet.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:15 PM   #5
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Not sure why Honda even bothers. I guess Honda needs to have a top line sedan to fill the show room but at the price point this car will retail there are far more compelling cars available rendering the RL or RLX as an also-ran.
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Old 06-22-2012, 03:20 PM   #6
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I think the RL is really nice. subtle looking, comfortable, very ergonomical, drives well not overtly large, decent room inside and is a great car IF priced under $50k.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
I hope Acura is not thinking that just renaming the RL to RLX is going to change people's minds. The RLX concept is nothing revolutionary over the RL, especially if this is intended to be the flagship model. The average consumer is not going to tell the difference between the RLX and RL. I guess Acura is more concerned about adding an "X" to each of their models than actually building a competitive car.
Take it easy. The car is not even out yet, how do you know it's not gonna be competitive by just looking at concept pics.
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:22 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
Take it easy. The car is not even out yet, how do you know it's not gonna be competitive by just looking at concept pics.
One word: history.
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Old 06-22-2012, 09:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
One word: history.
Poor thinking.

History is the past. Always strive for continuous improvement.

One word: Hyundai.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:34 PM   #10
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I just figured out how you win an internet argument.

Two words: one word.
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:07 AM   #11
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Looks like a Nissan Altima, a Toyota Camry and a Mazda 6 got smashed together.
When will designers think of something NEW for a new car? I understand most everything has been done before but come on....
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
Poor thinking.

History is the past. Always strive for continuous improvement.

One word: Hyundai.



Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Because Honda has been so keen on innovation and forward-thinking design of late.

They've been backing away from high engineering for over a decade. Nothing on the visible horizon would indicate a reversal of this trend.

Honda's corporate culture has become stagnant, and it's reflected in their products.
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Spenk View Post



Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Because Honda has been so keen on innovation and forward-thinking design of late.

They've been backing away from high engineering for over a decade. Nothing on the visible horizon would indicate a reversal of this trend.

Honda's corporate culture has become stagnant, and it's reflected in their products.
I own two acuras. 02 TL and 05 MDX. Great cars, reliable and very comfortable. If they made that MDX with better MPG it would be amazing. So maybe no engineering, but for DD they really do not have to do much to convince me.
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:59 PM   #14
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Yes, but the TL fits a decent Niche in the market. The RL doesn't.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:34 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest View Post
I own two acuras. 02 TL and 05 MDX. Great cars, reliable and very comfortable.
They are not "great cars." They are average cars, well-executed.

Quote:
If they made that MDX with better MPG it would be amazing.
Yes, and...?

It would likewise be amazing if eating broccoli made you rich and good-looking.

Quote:
So maybe no engineering, but for DD they really do not have to do much to convince me.
Precisely.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:09 AM   #16
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This car looks super bland... nothing special about it except the headlights. No new lines, curves, style. It actually looks like Acura went back in time and stole a design from the Camry.
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenk View Post



Riiiiiiiiiiiight. Because Honda has been so keen on innovation and forward-thinking design of late.

They've been backing away from high engineering for over a decade. Nothing on the visible horizon would indicate a reversal of this trend.

Honda's corporate culture has become stagnant, and it's reflected in their products.
I doubt Honda has stopped pushing technology. They sure had bad luck for the past few years, with failed attempts. The market always changes and failed horribly, with the CR-Z and the new Civic.

It's all about what people want to buy and how they market it.

There's nothing innovative about Honda's competitors. Just the current demand.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:44 PM   #18
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A 2012 Accord has the same SOHC 3.5L/5AT powertrain as a 2001 Acura MDX. Civic? Same ole 1.8L/5AT combo. Meanwhile Chrysler and Hyundai have 8-speeds.

Direct injection? Nope.
Dual clutch transmissions? Nope.

But they do have this:

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Old 06-24-2012, 11:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4wdwrx
There's nothing innovative about Honda's competitors.
Toyota has the GT86 and the Prius.
Hyundai has the Veloster and is doing a lot with DCTs and DI.
Ford has the EcoBoost motors.
Chevy has the Sonic and the Vette.

Basically every car manufacturer in the world is doing interesting **** with their lineup - or at least updating it - except for Honda.
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:09 PM   #20
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But they do have this:

Meh, bland and average looking that just blends in with the masses; just like the cars Honda is pushing...

The Segway stool is interesting, though.
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Old 06-24-2012, 11:41 PM   #21
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I think the fact that these non-car R&D (segway, business jet, humanoid robot, etc) seem to be continuing is a sign of how out of touch Honda leadership is.

Believe me, as a scientist, I give a lot of credit to a company for investing in interesting technologies that make little commercial sense. But in reality, such luxury is viable for very special cases, and even then not for long. (AT&T and the Bell Lab of yore is a great example)

I understand that Honda was at the top of the world at one point, but they really should've backed out of these non-core R&D ten years ago if they had any foresight of how immensely competitive the car market would become in this decade.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:53 AM   #22
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I think the 08 recession flummoxed the hell out of Honda. As a result they have no idea what to do with the NA market.

While we might think the NA market is hugely important.... as far as (global) auto sales go it is now at ~ 30% of sales... so Honda might just keep their focus on the other 70ish% and stick with making cars for those markets.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:22 AM   #23
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not being a Honda fan is one thing

Posting B.S. is another.


To come on here & say Honda has done/is doing nothing is incorrect.



Quote:
By: Mark Rechtin, Automotive News on 11/29/2011

Honda Motor Co. on Wednesday at the Tokyo motor show unveiled a lineup of four- and six-cylinder engines, as well as a family of continuously variable transmissions, that will reach the market over the next two years.

The Earth Dreams engines have direct injection and double overhead cams. As the Honda vehicle lineup is redesigned, even the base four-cylinder engine will have a twin-cam setup. Some midcycle revisions could get the new engines before a vehicle receives a full redesign, said Keiji Ohtsu, a chief engineer with Honda r&d.


The specifications for the new Honda engines are:

-- A 3.5-liter V6 with 310 hp and 265 lb-ft of torque. This is 30 more horsepower and 11 more lb-ft than the outgoing 3.5-liter engine in the Acura TL.

-- A 2.4-liter inline-four with 181 hp and 177 lb-ft of torque. This will be the base engine in the redesigned Accord coming next fall and could find its way into the midcycle change for the CR-V in 2013.

-- A 1.8-liter inline-four with 148 hp and 133 lb-ft of torque, which could be installed in the 2013 midcycle change for the Civic.

-- A 1.5-liter inline-four with 127 hp and 111 lb-ft of torque for the Fit, perhaps in time for the midcycle change in 2012.

-- A 1.6-liter turbodiesel engine that has comparable power to a current 2.2-liter diesel, with 220 lb-ft of torque but much better fuel economy.


New transmissions
In addition, Honda has designed three continuously variable transmissions, one for mid-sized cars such as the Accord, and two for smaller vehicles such as the Civic, Fit and minicars.



Hybrid advancements
As for hybrid advancements, Honda's upcoming Accord two-mode hybrid, when combined with a four-cylinder engine, will have equivalent power to the Camry Hybrid but better fuel economy than the Camry's combined 41 mpg rating, said Yusuke Hasegawa, senior chief engineer with Honda r&d.

When combined with a V6 engine, the hybrid system will create V8 power and four-cylinder fuel economy. The system can run in EV-only mode, EV-and-gasoline for passing and acceleration, or gasoline-only for highway cruising.

The two-mode hybrid uses a twin-cam profile. But instead of using its VTEC profile for more power, the hybrid version shifts between the Atkinson cycle for leaner-burning of fuel, and the traditional Otto cycle when more power is needed, depending on the torque load on the engine, Hasegawa said.

In EV mode, the Honda plug-in hybrid can travel for as many as 15 miles at speeds up to 62 mph. The plug-in system has a switch that will allow the driver to save EV-mode ability until later in his drive, such as if he commutes from the empty suburbs to the crowded downtown.

Honda also showed an electric all-wheel hybrid drive system that sends power to the outside wheel during cornering, which aids in traction and performance.

When the new 3.5-liter V6 is combined with a seven-speed dual-clutch transmission with an integrated hybrid-electric motor, the torque output between left- and right-side wheels is independently meted to the outside wheel, using the energy from regenerative braking to provide the power boost.


Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2011...#ixzz1yonqRE3y
Other sources:

http://paultan.org/2012/05/01/honda-...-fun-to-match/

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-engine-lineup

http://www.insideline.com/honda/hond...auto-show.html



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Old 06-25-2012, 11:28 AM   #24
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not just this but honda engines are perfection. despite being aged in the tooth they are still up to snuff with the new fangled engines other people have brought out.

the dream engines should once again put them in the forefront.

Now all they need to do is work on their chasiss and design language.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:04 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 4wdwrx View Post
I doubt Honda has stopped pushing technology. They sure had bad luck for the past few years, with failed attempts. The market always changes and failed horribly, with the CR-Z and the new Civic.

It's all about what people want to buy and how they market it.

There's nothing innovative about Honda's competitors. Just the current demand.
Don't forget an odd looking slow selling Crosstour, the Insight that only hopes to attract Prius owners, lackluster Accord Concept that looks nothing more than a fancied up current gen Accord. Sure their is bad luck but their is also bad design and execution. Honda makes fine cars that are reliable and efficient but they are not pushing any envelopes.

There are plenty of innovations from Honda's competitors. Hyundai and Ford has introduced completely new designs, models, and engines that have sparked buyer's interests. They are offering products people want to buy. Honda is not, their designs are slight evolutions over current designs. Engine technology has barely moved forward***See Edit Below***, i.e. in a world of increasing turbo-charged engines, Honda introduced their own for only one model, RDX, but only to drop it. The choice of a turbo in that type of vehicle might have not been the best choice to begin with. Yet, their failures/critisms of their current models is showing that they are a bit out of touch with what people really want. They are relying on past success and reputation and much like the old GM did for years.

As for Acura, again fine cars but with a lot of issues. Acura's strategy has changed several times over the last few years that is only drawing confusion on where Acura is going. The RL sales have been horrible and from a visual standpoint, their is nothing interesting from the "new" RLX concept, besides LED headlights and SH-AWD. It better offer more than just looks, and a more efficient V6 engine/trans if it's going to sell near the $50k mark. At that price point, their are a lot of other/better options with much better luxury nameplates.

***EDIT: Based on the above post, it looks like they will finally be offering some engine improvements. I would be interested in mpg outputs. Still, I wonder why turbo charged engines are not in their future.

Last edited by subyski; 06-25-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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