NEW Deastchwerks 1000cc Injector Review

[Cobb Tuning]

Product Review:

I recently completed a beta test of the new Deastchwerks 1000cc Top Feed drop in injectors for the Subaru market. These are direct drop in replacement injectors that fit without modification to the fuel rail or the injector harness. Before switching to these new 1000cc injectors I ran the Deastchwerks 850ccs. As with many who currently run the 850s know, they work very well. The idle quality and consistency is spot on, and the extra capacity makes higher power levels possible.

My setup is an 08 STI with a Perrin GT3076R Turbokit, Perrin FMIC and Intake, Perrin Headers and Exhaust, 255lt.hr Fuel Pump, Cobb Accessport V2.

Switching up to the new 1000cc injectors was an equivalently easy step up. I literally just adjusted the injector scale and latency in a single swipe, flashed in the map, and the car ran exactly the same with about 15% less duty cycle. Idle and start up are stock quality, fuel control is very stable, and the additional headroom increases tune safety.

Here is a quick graph of the injector duty cycle from a tune with the 850ccs vs 1000ccs on my 08 STI.



With the additional head room (~30%), I can switch to E85 at this power level. With the 850ccs I didn’t have enough headroom to switch without also turning down the boost.

If you are looking for a great set of injectors for your larger turbo STI or WRX setup, the DW1000ccs are a great choice. Direct drop in, easy to tune, and they perform. Simple.

I am running over 400whp right now with these on pump fuel at only 70% duty cycle, so there is support for 550-600whp with the right fuel. I used these injectors during the Cosworth Manifold Test (http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1774491), and they were very consistant.

These injectors are available now from DW vendors, and we have several sets in stock ready to ship out at Surgeline Tuning. MSRP is $549.

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
Research Calibrator
Surgeline Tuning

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[chongl]

Jeff

When you scale the injectors for an AP map, did you adjust the "Fuel Injector Scale" ?

Was thinking of dropping in some DW's from stock and wanted to know what else needs to be done if anything? Is latency really needed if nothing else is changed?

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by chongl

Jeff

When you scale the injectors for an AP map, did you adjust the "Fuel Injector Scale" ?

Was thinking of dropping in some DW's from stock and wanted to know what else needs to be done if anything? Is latency really needed if nothing else is changed?

These will require injector scaling as well as latency changes. The actual numbers vary by tuning program and ECU type.

Regards
Tim

[PikkaGTR]

great write up
just the good news and part I am waiting on
an E-85 station just opened up down my street

[IIdiceII]

are these oem/modded stock injectors?

i had a set of dw 650's that werent oem modded injectors and then another set of dw 650's which were lol...just curious.

[rexworx]

Edit...

Sorry I was wrong, their not...

Ian,

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by rexworx

Yes as far as I know they are modded stockers...

These are NOT modded stock injectors.


We have 8 sets of 1000cc in stock along with all other Deatschwerks subaru injectors.

750cc Top Feed- $399
850cc Top Feed- $549
1000cc Top Feed- $549
740cc Side Feed- $499
850cc Side Feed- $599

Call for best pricing and package deals with other parts and SurgeLine Tuning AccessPORT mapping. Free shipping.

[rexworx]

Oh Im sorry Ill edit my post...

Thanks for taking the time to post up all of this info!!!

Ian,

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by rexworx

Oh Im sorry Ill edit my post...

Thanks for taking the time to post up all of this info!!!

Ian,

Hi Ian,
In the past Deatschwerks has recycled used subaru injectors. I believe their current practice is to start with new injectors for most of their product line. These new 1000cc injectors begin as a brand new unit.

Regards
Tim

[06rexwagon]

Originally Posted by Surgeline Tuning

Hi Ian,
In the past Deatschwerks has recycled used subaru injectors. I believe their current practice is to start with new injectors for most of their product line. These new 1000cc injectors begin as a brand new unit.

Regards
Tim

Are they a Denso or Bosch core?

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by 06rexwagon

Are they a Denso or Bosch core?

denso core

[06rexwagon]

Originally Posted by Surgeline Tuning

denso core

Nice! Thanks.

[CH Conceptz]

If bought through your company... Do you offer the same $200 rebate for my stockers?
I read DW rebates you $200 for your stock Inj on this forum somewhere. Is this True ?

Looking to do a EL Header w/ 1000cc in the nex 2 weeks.
thanks
cory

[DeatschWerks]

Originally Posted by CH Conceptz

If bought through your company... Do you offer the same $200 rebate for my stockers?
I read DW rebates you $200 for your stock Inj on this forum somewhere. Is this True ?

Looking to do a EL Header w/ 1000cc in the nex 2 weeks.
thanks
cory

Cory,

Hope you got your question answered. We do still offer the cash back rebate. The rebate process goes through us directly, regardless if you purchased the injectors through us directly or one of our authorized dealers. The rebate return form and return shipping label should be in the box. Follow the instructions on the rebate form

Thanks!

[STIBungy]

So with that in mind, they should be a drop-in w/o the use of pigtails or plug modifications?

Originally Posted by Surgeline Tuning

denso core

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by STIBungy

So with that in mind, they should be a drop-in w/o the use of pigtails or plug modifications?

That is correct. These are a direct replacement without mechanical or electrical system modification.

We have several sets in stock. Give us a ring at the shop.
503-670-9500

Regards
Tim

[Gigabelova]

How do these compare to Injector Dynamics' 1000cc injectors?

[06rexwagon]

Originally Posted by Gigabelova

How do these compare to Injector Dynamics' 1000cc injectors?

If you use the same test fluid, these injectors will flow over 100cc more than the Injector Dynamics 1000's.

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by Gigabelova

How do these compare to Injector Dynamics' 1000cc injectors?

The injector dynamics 1000cc bosch injectors work well. I've used them in several customers vehicles. However, they do not flow at 1000cc. They would be more accurately labeled as 900cc injectors.

Another point of comparison is mechanical fitment. In that regard both the deatschwerks and injector dynamics products are equivalent. That is, both fit perfectly.

A point of clear contrast is the electrical fitment. The bosch (injector dynamics) injectors use a different electrical connector and therefore require the use of an adapter harness or to rewire the current harness. In contrast the Deatschwerks injectors use exactly the same connectors as your stock subaru units.

Documentation. Each of the deatschwerks injectors comes with its own specific flow documentation. In fact, each injector is has its own unique identifying marks so you can know which of the injectors is referenced in the flow data. To my knowledge there is no comparable documentation for the injector dynamics subaru product.

Just one more point that may be important.... Deatschwerks offers cash back when you return select types of stock injectors to their facility. Most of their product lines now use all new components but there are still some items that can only be obtained from stock subaru injectors. The package comes with a prepaid UPS label to make the core return painless.

The last point for comparison is price.

Pricing (retail)

DW 1000cc top feed - $549
DW 850cc top feed - $549
DW 750 top feed - $399
Injector dynamics 900cc top feed - $460

Hope this comparison helps
Regards
Tim Bailey

[jason miller]

Tim, do you have a preference between the Injector Dynamics and Deatschwerks? How's the tunability? Idle quality? Spray pattern?

Also, do you feel that all injectors in the DW line perform equally? I know most people love the 850's. If 1000's are the same price, wouldn't it seem logical to just buy the 1000's? Further, but on a tangent, do you feel that 850/1000's are a better injector than the 750's? I would think they are $150 more for a reason, and I'm guessing it's because they probably use new cores and/or the 06/07 oem injectors, which they pay customers an extra $100 for. But I'm just wondering if there are any performance benefits or if the main difference is just higher flow capability.

Thanks in advance, and I hope that wasn't confusing...

[jason miller]

Hopefully Tim checks this and has some input on my questions. In the meantime, ttt...

[jason miller]

Bump for the hope that Tim checks this thread again.

[IIdiceII]

would these be overkill on a 20g'd ej257 on e85?

I got a local e85 pump and i wanna eventually try it out but right now i only have 750's.

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by jason miller

Tim, do you have a preference between the Injector Dynamics and Deatschwerks? How's the tunability? Idle quality? Spray pattern?

Also, do you feel that all injectors in the DW line perform equally? I know most people love the 850's. If 1000's are the same price, wouldn't it seem logical to just buy the 1000's? Further, but on a tangent, do you feel that 850/1000's are a better injector than the 750's? I would think they are $150 more for a reason, and I'm guessing it's because they probably use new cores and/or the 06/07 oem injectors, which they pay customers an extra $100 for. But I'm just wondering if there are any performance benefits or if the main difference is just higher flow capability.

Thanks in advance, and I hope that wasn't confusing...

I can't assess to the spay pattern because i've never observed the spray pattern nor can judge the impact on idle quality and the tune. I can tell you that the Deatschwerks and Injector dynamics injectors both tune very well. I can't see a difference in idle quality given all things being equal. However, the only way to quantify this kind of comparison would be to tune the same vehicle with both injectors and look at immediate fuel trims and perhaps with the use of a 5 gas analyzer assess the combustion process at idle. That said, a test like the one i've described above in a single car would not prove the case. I imagine at least half a dozen similar tests would need to be performed in order to PROVE a difference.

What is my preference? I like the deatschwerks better. Why? They flow more at stock fuel pressure and they are a direct drop in replacement... ie the stock wiring harness plugs in. Also, i have a brand preference for a company that supports subaru tuning with equally good products that support a variety of flow needs and fitments.

What size injectors should you get? I'd get the largest that makes sense for your budget and setup. In my experience there are no drawbacks to using larger Deatschwerks injectors. They all flow very well and produce consistent idle.

How are Deatschwerks injectors made? Do they use all new components? I have no idea as to their specific design and manufacture. I do know that some injectors are brand new and some utilize used cores. From a tuning perspective i know that a 750 flows 750 and their 850s flow 850. In other words, they work as indicated and flow as expected with pump fuels. In all cases tuning these injectors is a simple matter of calculating flow scalar and then determining latency values through testing. I tune enough vehicles to know that their products perform consistenty. IE, the known values derived from one vehicle produce similar results when used on a different vehicle.

From a tuning perspective i LOVE products that perform consistently. I can confidently remote tune vehicles when they use a recomended intake and Deatschwerks injectors.

In years past "modded stock" injectors were acceptable because there was no alternative. Now that deatschwerks is supports the Subaru market with a full line of products my own standards and the standards of our customers can be realized.

Regards
Tim

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by IIdiceII

would these be overkill on a 20g'd ej257 on e85?

I got a local e85 pump and i wanna eventually try it out but right now i only have 750's.

850s should be enough but i would go ahead and step up to the 1000cc so you can have some headroom AND perhaps get a bigger turbo in the future.