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Old 06-30-2012, 05:48 PM   #1
Lminette
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Default Good FRS vs. BRZ Vid

Good video directly comparing the two. Guess it's different strokes for different folks cause one preferred the FRS and the other preferred the BRZ at the end of the day but both actually thought the power level was just fine after driving it.


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Old 07-01-2012, 10:30 AM   #2
shikataganai
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Great. So they don't even agree with each other. Is it "number" or "sharper"?

Anyway, all of these differences will go out the window once alignment and suspension are modified…
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Old 07-01-2012, 02:37 PM   #3
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A solid video but I wish they were comparing two ATs or two MTs. The auto transmission is known to be a little heavier and have slightly different ratios.
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:14 PM   #4
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I thought the BRZ had a little stiffer springs opposed to the FR-S so that could account for the difference in handling he described
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:55 PM   #5
chanomatik
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They knew that the BRZ had stiffer suspension in the rear, so it really came down to preference. One preferred the car to feel more planted because it reassured him of his driving with the BRZ, whereas the FR-S was preferred by the other reviewer because it allowed him to be more ballsy (because of the more floaty suspension), but he still trusted the car's abilities.
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinter888
I thought the BRZ had a little stiffer springs opposed to the FR-S so that could account for the difference in handling he described
Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik
They knew that the BRZ had stiffer suspension in the rear, so it really came down to preference. One preferred the car to feel more planted because it reassured him of his driving with the BRZ, whereas the FR-S was preferred by the other reviewer because it allowed him to be more ballsy (because of the more floaty suspension), but he still trusted the car's abilities.
While the BRZ has slightly stiffer springs due to a slightly porkier curb weight, the spring bias (f/r) is less aggressive than the FR-S. The FR-S has slightly softer front springs and, allegedly, a similar rear spring rate compared to the BRZ, along with stiffer rear dampening. By the numbers, the FR-S should be the more neutral version.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:41 AM   #7
globi
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Does anyone know how their stock suspension set-up compares in an autox?
For instance, would the BRZ be preferable in C-Stock over the FR-S or vice versa?

Also, does anyone know whether the FR-S and GT-86 have the same suspension set-up or is the FR-S softer (e.g. the Mazda 6 sold in the US has a softer suspension than the one sold in Europe)?
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:54 PM   #8
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I believe the FR-S and GT86 are identical suspension-wise.

BRZ is more front-stiff and the FR-S is more rear-stiff. Oversteer vs understeer is the only difference.

A little negative camber up front completely transforms the car. I was floored. It just does not push anymore.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:16 PM   #9
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Here are the sprint rate differences between the FR-S and BRZ:

Car: Front OE Spring Rate:
Subaru BRZ 27 N/mm (153 lbs/in)
Scion FR-S 23 N/mm (131 lbs/in)

Rear OE Spring Rate:
Subaru BRZ 34 N/mm (195 lbs/in)
Scion FR-S 37 N/mm (211 lbs/in)

Stock form the FR-S has more oversteer than the BRZ. I think once you put a front swaybar and shocks on the car the difference between the two would be negligible.

Completely stock the BRZ is better in transitions because it has a little less oversteer but the FR-S better in sweepers. Having driven both cars stock I kind of prefer the BRZ just because it's a little easier to drive at the limit.
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Old 12-02-2012, 05:17 PM   #10
globi
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dwx, thank you for your detailed response!
(I was searching for any suspension data for quite a while.)

2point2, I guess, if one were to choose the BRZ over the FR-S and add these camber bolts upfront, it should then end up with less of an under-steer tendency? http://www.brz-parts.com/kca414-brz.html
Otherwise a FR-S with a front sway bar should again have more of an under-steer tendency.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:40 AM   #11
jprice130
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I have AutoX'd my BRZ a good bit (~10 events) and I have also competed with a friend's FR-S a couple times. Both in stock class form. What DWX says about the handling is true. The rear-end of the FR-S does like to dance a little more than the BRZ. However, with that said, I don't have a problem getting my BRZ to rotate and it will still spin on you if you push too hard or get too aggressive on corner exits (even with Star Specs/RS-3s or R-comps).

When I drove my friend's FR-S the first time it was completely stock and the 2nd time was with a 22mm Strano Front Bar. That was a noticeable change and was great. The front bar calmed the rear-end down, sharpened the car up for slaloms and quick transitions, but did not seem to increase understeer in sweepers and longer turns.

For my BRZ, I still plan to upgrade my front bar but I'm going to get one of the 20mm offerings that are out there. I think the 22mm bar would be too big for the BRZ due to the spring rate differences.

As for the camber/crash bolts, you should definitely get those and get all the front negative camber you can get regardless of the car you choose (I got -1.5 degrees with the OEM crash bolts). Negative camber is always a good thing for AutoX and you will definitely want it to help even out your tire wear. I ran a couple events in my BRZ before installing camber bolts and the outside of my tires definitely took the brunt of the wear.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:02 AM   #12
dwx
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I have the Strano 22mm bar installed now. I also have the new 20-21mm Whiteline adjustable bar (BSF45Z w/the new endlinks) coming since I have the same thoughts as you where the 22mm will be too much. I have the same shocks coming as Jay now and once the shocks are on the car I think 22mm will definitely be too much.

Edit, looks like I was originally wrong about the stiffness, found some more data.

Front 20mm (2 way adjustable)
Soft Setting - 118.5%
Hard Setting - 174%

The hard setting is about 15% less stiff than the Strano bar I believe.

Last edited by dwx; 12-03-2012 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwx View Post
I have the Strano 22mm bar installed now. I also have the new 20-21mm Whiteline adjustable bar (BSF45Z w/the new endlinks) coming since I have the same thoughts as you where the 22mm will be too much. I have the same shocks coming as Jay now and once the shocks are on the car I think 22mm will definitely be too much.

Edit, looks like I was originally wrong about the stiffness, found some more data.

Front 20mm (2 way adjustable)
Soft Setting - 118.5%
Hard Setting - 174%

The hard setting is about 15% less stiff than the Strano bar I believe.
Glad to hear you'll be getting the same shocks that Jay is getting. I'm hoping to get another co-drive with him once he has them installed. I look forward to your thoughts on them as well.
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