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Old 07-01-2012, 04:41 PM   #1
wayward167
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Default CL afr's

I'm running 13.9-14.2 idle and cruising.

I understand there is nothing dangerous about it , but if I were to adjust to 14.5-14.7 would I cause any issues with the tune? Would I get any noticeable MPG improvement?

Do tunes usually add timing at this point?


I have the tune logs just can't post from my phone.

(I forgot to ask my tuner to look at this during tuning)
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Old 07-01-2012, 05:53 PM   #2
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I run 14.9 to 15.3 in cl on my 02 stage 2 wrx, no issues so far and gas mileage is a a lot better. Timing in those areas is the same as before with 14.7afr. PM dux10 he will help you since hes the one that e-tuned my car and set the afr to what it currently is. Getting your cl target will be different than a 16 bit ecu, all you have is compensations that you can alter to try and get a leaner afr.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:49 PM   #3
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Adjust your maf scaling to reach 14.7@idle.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:32 PM   #4
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There is something very wrong if you're running 13.9-14.2 at idle. Not because that's a bad AFR, but because the CL system should be fixing it very quickly, and apparently it's not. If it's not being fixed, you're either stuck in open loop for some reason, your CL adjustments are maxed out, or your CL target has dropped for some reason.

You need to do some logging to figure out what the problem is. I would start by logging AFR, OL fueling target, CL/OL status, AF Correction and AF Learning.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:41 PM   #5
wayward167
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Doesn't maf scaling affect both open and closed?

Also I logged and noticed my afr gauge and stock sensor disagree by .2 at idle so 14.3-14.4
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayward167 View Post
Doesn't maf scaling affect both open and closed?
Yes and no. The chances of you hitting the lower range of the MAF in openloop is pretty slim. And in closedloop you have O2 sensor feedback but obviously the correction is not infinite. I would do like Eggroll suggested.
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:08 AM   #7
wayward167
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I have afr a/f correction and learning but I don't see an option for ol cl targets or status....
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:42 AM   #8
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log your fueling corrections. If your corrections are not maxed, then the car thinks it's at 14.7.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian
log your fueling corrections. If your corrections are not maxed, then the car thinks it's at 14.7.
What's the Max value for corrections?

Also my wot afrs have migrated lean about a full point. No knock as they were low to begin with for the parts I have 11.3 with

GS ebcs, gs cross pipe, gs up pipe, Cobb SF intake, spearco tmic( slightly larger than pw), perrin turbo blanket, ceramic coated heat shield, invidia tbe,

Afr gauge reads but I can't get it to read on rom raider.

I reinstalled and found new definitions, which gave me different parameters but still nothing that I recognized as CL/OL
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:29 AM   #10
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how far apart should i expect my innovative gauge to read from the stock one? recently replaced and calibrated....

cruising it looks like it corrects close to 14.7 but idle it's lower for some reason. idle it looks like 14.2 but cruising its 14.6. nearly -15 corrections and -4 learned at part throttle. not sure if the difference btw the tune and my gauge is that i couldn't get it to log so we used the tail pipe sensor to tune with.



sorry for all the jumbled info i am trying to figure this all out and my gauge isn't logging and rom raider has bod'd my laptop a few times as well.


thanks for your patience. (sent all the info i have to my tuner so hopefully he'll chime in.)
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:23 PM   #11
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If the corrections are negative and you're below 14.7, then the car thinks it's at 14.7, since it can certainly add fuel.

How are you calibrating the LM? I'd find a long downhill, coast with your foot off the gas, and calibrate when your engine is breathing fresh air and injecting no gas.
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
If the corrections are negative and you're below 14.7, then the car thinks it's at 14.7, since it can certainly add fuel.
?

If the corrections are negative, it is pulling out fuel. Since he's below 14.7, that means it's not pulling out enough, it needs to pull out more. It's reasonable to assume the car knows it's not at 14.7 and is simply not capable of pulling out enough fuel to get it there. It's running way too rich, and the closed loop system is doing everything it can to get it back to stoich.

Who tuned the car and with what mods?
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the suicidal eggroll

?

If the corrections are negative, it is pulling out fuel. Since he's below 14.7, that means it's not pulling out enough, it needs to pull out more. It's reasonable to assume the car knows it's not at 14.7 and is simply not capable of pulling out enough fuel to get it there. It's running way too rich, and the closed loop system is doing everything it can to get it back to stoich.

Who tuned the car and with what mods?
Cleverley and I sent me this info last night but I think he's doing something for the weekend.

I have the last log we did tuning and everything looked good.

Its trying like mad to correct at low throttle and idle to pull fuel then at wot it's now too lean...
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:20 PM   #14
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Mods list is back a few posts but basically stock turbo and internals...

Might have a leak I'm going to check a few more things
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Old 07-04-2012, 04:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian
If the corrections are negative and you're below 14.7, then the car thinks it's at 14.7, since it can certainly add fuel.

How are you calibrating the LM? I'd find a long downhill, coast with your foot off the gas, and calibrate when your engine is breathing fresh air and injecting no gas.
Calibration by the book... outside of the car. I have the lc-1 .
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:38 PM   #16
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Update:

i sent the logs to my tuner...he thinks i have a leak, can't hear one nor does it show on the boost gauge but fueling and afr's were fine when we tuned it.

i got my afr gauge to work with logworks3 but romraider won't read it. i noticed .2 difference between the gauge and what logworks shows. (think it's a grounding issue as more than one person has complained about the install of the lc-1 and grounding is #1)

when my engine bay cools off i am going to take off my tmic and check the turbo inlet lines as well as re install the hoses. intake and ebcs lines i already did.

eggroll's suggestion on ol/cl status i can't do as i can't find anything in the parameters similar. I went through the tuning guides and re-installed romraider as well as definitions i have saved from TP tunes i've helped other people with.

those guides need to be updated to include definitions for cars newer than 2010 btw.


thanks for the help guys, if anyone has tips on how to get romraider to play nice with win7 that would help me out greatly.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayward167 View Post
eggroll's suggestion on ol/cl status i can't do as i can't find anything in the parameters similar.
Doesn't matter anymore. If you have active AF Correction then it's in closed loop.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:21 PM   #18
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^ this...

also, i find it interesting that nobody stated that there is a table in his ecu that will allow him to target below 14.7 afr in closed loop. you can even choose to target lower at idle and higher above idle...or vice versa...or whatever you want. i just thought it was really interesting that didn't get brought up in the first couple posts. i have seen a few tuners maps where they intentionally targeted 13.8-14.2 in closed loop because they felt it improved throttle response.

not that any of that matters anymore since he is working with his tuner to fix a leak now, but still...
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:04 PM   #19
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i'm getting rich in closed loop and lean at wot....not sure what would cause this. also still can't get romraider logger to work worth a ****. logworks3 pulls it up just fine.

I have 0.5.4 RC1 w/ defs sent from TP as no one has posted newer def's on here... i don't have a 2009 or older so the guide and rom raider section is useless.
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:37 PM   #20
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My bad.....

Last edited by Cr4ckfi3nd; 07-05-2012 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 07-04-2012, 10:55 PM   #21
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gee thanks for input....^^^
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:32 AM   #22
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My bad. Didn't read your name op thought it was some other guy posting the same problem. but yeah a leak is 99% of the time gonna be your problem with symptoms like that.

As far as RR, I had to uninstall and reinstall it like 5 times for it work following the instructions to the T and it still will crash if I disconnect my lc-1 from the laptop once connected, not sure why.
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:42 PM   #23
wayward167
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What I was hoping was a general area to look in narrowed down from "the car"

I can get rr to log without my lc-1 but I can't get it to read it which makes it hard to get a decent meaningful log.

If I make a pressure tester out of PVC what lines do I need to seal? "Evaporation lines" are what exactly....
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Old 07-05-2012, 03:03 PM   #24
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You can adjust your idle and light throttle afrs up to 15.5ish for better mpg and still be fine.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:10 AM   #25
wayward167
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i got RR and my lc-1 to work at least for a few logs....


what i really need now is lines identified to be clamped shut for use while leak testing. i have a valve and air compressor with regulator on it.

any relevant info is appreciated.
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