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Old 07-06-2012, 09:52 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Video: 2013 Ford C-Max rated at 47/44 mpg city/highway

Ford’s complete lineup makeover is still in full swing, with the new up and coming 2013 C-Max Hybrid being the latest vehicle to enter the brand’s family. As a result, the Dearborn-make has just released some details surrounding its gas-electric powered mid-sized people carrier, the C-Max Hybrid.

Specifically aimed at the MPV version of the industry’s proverbial mass-produced hybrid, the Toyota Prius V, the new 2013 Ford C-Max Hybrid is expected to provide drivers with 47/44 mpg city/highway, potentially allowing the C-Max Hybrid to travel up to 500 miles total. Strictly comparing figures on paper, the Ford C-Max Hybrid bests the Prius V by three mpg’s on city and four on highway fuel economy ratings—the Prius V is rated at 44/40 mpg city/highway.

Powering the C-Max Hybrid is a paring of a 2.0L four-banger that’s combined with an electric motor and some lithium-ion batteries, for a grand total of 188hp—another figure that trumps the Prius V, which is rated at 134hp.

The 2013 Ford C-Max Hybrid is expected to start around $25,995, undercutting the Prius V’s price by $1,285. Sales are to begin later this fall while dealerships are currently available to take preorders.

Ford was also kind enough to provide a little video outlining the 2013 C-Max Hybrid’s other features, so check it out below.

http://www.egmcartech.com/2012/07/05...8egmCarTech%29
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:27 AM   #2
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I'm surprised there's not more here regarding this car...Ford's first real shot at the Prius, and it seems like it might be a pretty solid one. The energi version was just rated at 620miles/tank by the EPA.

Right now, it's between the Focus ST and this car for me. I just need to decide whether having a fun commuter trumps saving ****loads of money on gas. I've been driving a stripped down Fiesta S, and to be honest, I don't feel like I'm missing anything.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:03 AM   #3
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That's awesome! I like the looks of the c-max.

Imagine if they were using diesel motors instead of gas. Oh the mileage.
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Old 10-22-2012, 11:40 AM   #4
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I've been cross shopping the Cmax and the Crosstek.

The Crosstek I'd want MSRPs at $25,373, Premium w/nav and a couple other things.
If I wanted Nav in the Cmax, it'd be $27,535.

Over my current G8, including car payments, and gas savings, and current incentives/rebates, I'd save $150/month in the Crosstek and $200/month in the CMax.

Part of me thinks that the crosstek is worth the $50/month loss in savings for the AWD and 'proven' Subaru reliability over something brandy new to Ford US.

I know the Cmax has been in europe, but the drivetrain is essentially almost identical to the Escape Hybrid... which has had quite a few reliability issues crop up recently...

--kC
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:41 PM   #5
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I just spent entire last week driving a 2012 C-MAX diesel, and I'll say for those not in the know that the MPG numbers for the hybrid are a joke compared to real world diesel numbers.

Americans seriously need to stop consuming the marketing hype around hybrids and go diesel...

And yes, the C-MAX is a great car. If any Focus based diesel makes it stateside, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:03 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by zzyzx View Post
I just spent entire last week driving a 2012 C-MAX diesel, and I'll say for those not in the know that the MPG numbers for the hybrid are a joke compared to real world diesel numbers.

Americans seriously need to stop consuming the marketing hype around hybrids and go diesel...

And yes, the C-MAX is a great car. If any Focus based diesel makes it stateside, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.
I'm not so sure about that. Diesel makes a lot of sense in Europe due to the tax structure there, but not quite as much here. As for the real world mileage, that also depends on what type of driving you do. I'm willing to bet that a Prius sized car with a small diesel that produces about the same performance will not come close to beating the Prius milage in pure city driving with lots of stop and go.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer diesels over hybrid for the most part as well, but I think it's a bit overblown in the enthusiasts community due to people's hatred of green technology and the cool factor of anything European that doesn't make it here.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:10 PM   #7
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There's also the factor of people going to the UK and not comprehending that Imperial gallons != US gallons.
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Old 10-22-2012, 02:15 PM   #8
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I think White Out's point was to imagine them using small diesel motors in the hybrid, no in place of.
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:05 PM   #9
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1 Imperial Gallon (IG) = 1.2 US Gallons (USG)

IG MPG/1.2 = USG MPG

So, if a diesel does 60mpg (Imperial) then...

60/1.2=50 MPG (US).

Since most diesels do 45-50+MPG (without trying) converted to US Gallons, they still need to ****ing bring them over and ditch hybrids.

--kC
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:14 PM   #10
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Don't get me wrong, I prefer diesels over hybrid for the most part as well, but I think it's a bit overblown in the enthusiasts community due to people's hatred of green technology and the cool factor of anything European that doesn't make it here.
My comments came not from enthusiasm nor coolness, but my own pocketbook last week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai
There's also the factor of people going to the UK and not comprehending that Imperial gallons != US gallons.
Who mentioned the UK or Imperial anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC
Since most diesels do 45-50+MPG (without trying) converted to US Gallons, they still need to ****ing bring them over and ditch hybrids.
Exactly, KC!
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:35 PM   #11
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Since most diesels do 45-50+MPG (without trying) converted to US Gallons, they still need to ****ing bring them over and ditch hybrids.
Reasons why this isn't happening:

1) The diesel vehicles that get those figures are minicars. Stick a TDI in a Jetta-sized vehicle (still small on the American scale) and you yield this in the real world:


http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/jetta/diesel%20l4

2) Emissions requirements, in particular those for particulate matter and NOx, iirc.

3) Going from, say, 30 mpg combined to 40 mpg doesn't make a huge difference compared to the other, greater costs (depreciation, anyone?) in total cost of ownership, at least when the diesel model comes at a premium to begin with.

4) Diesel is more expensive than premium for much of the year in most regions.
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:46 PM   #12
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My comments came not from enthusiasm nor coolness, but my own pocketbook last week.
What exactly was the size and output of the engine? Was it the 1.6TDCi with 115HP? And what mileage did you get in what type of driving?

BTW, You can easily do better than the EPA rating in a Prius as well, especially in the city. I did this a few times with rental cars, and I wasn't even trying.

For stop and go traffic, regenerative braking is just good physics (my understanding is that the average efficiency is 30~40%, which is HUGE). There is no way around that. Couple that to the higher level of control that the computer has over how the car moves forward, and a good hybrid like Toyora's is really tough to beat in terms of city driving.

That is not to say that it is fun to drive, but to say that diesel in general gets better mileage than hybrids is just untrue. Highway, I can believe. But not in the city.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:26 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
Reasons why this isn't happening:

1) The diesel vehicles that get those figures are minicars. Stick a TDI in a Jetta-sized vehicle (still small on the American scale) and you yield this in the real world:


http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/jetta/diesel%20l4
Yes, Minicars getting 50-60mpg USG I agree. (And that wouldn't be a bad thing seeing that they can only squeeze 40ish out of the mini gassers here in the states). Doesn't change the fact they can bring them over and kick the gassers to the curb. This country could use more small (and more fuel efficient) diesels. Diesel torque more than makes up for the low displacement engine.

Sub compacts, not minis, like the Focus, Citroen C3, Opel Corsa, etc... The gas counterparts barely break 30 where the Diesels are in the +40s USG.

FYI... a 2013 Jetta is only 6" shorter than a 2013 Camry and 2013 Legacy. I wouldn't call that small, and I wouldn't call todays Camry small either. They're on the compact size of midsized.

Regarding emissions... they're clean in EU too.

Regarding 30-40mpg. It sure does. More diesels, price of diesel comes down. over 50% of the small car market in EU is diesel. At that, it would remove the reliance on corn based ethanolated gas much more where sugar and cane ethanol could finally be more economical.

Reduce reliance on corn, price of corn goes down, price of livestock that eats corn goes down, etc... it'll be a ripple effect. Remember, much of the corn that used to go to livestock feeding now goes to gas. Price for keeping livestock went up due to farmers selling corn to gas companies instead... less feed available, less livestock. Demand goes up. Prices go up. More corn grown instead of other foods, grains, wheats to capitolize on corn prices. Prices for 'other foods' goes up sue to more deman, less being grown.

Corn for ethanol was a huge... HUGE mistake for this economy.

--kC
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:13 AM   #14
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Regarding 30-40mpg. It sure does. More diesels, price of diesel comes down. over 50% of the small car market in EU is diesel. At that, it would remove the reliance on corn based ethanolated gas much more where sugar and cane ethanol could finally be more economical.

--kC
You would think that's the way it would work but hasn't. the reason given by petroleum companies for the hefty price increase for diesel fuel vs regular gas is the increase of diesel cars and new processing proceedures. Thier reasoning states that because the way diesel is distilled/processed that if Gasoline doesn't grow at the same or better rate that the processing price would increase with more volume, not go down. It sucks that diesel is now >115% of regular gas.
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:09 AM   #15
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Imagine if they were using diesel motors instead of gas. Oh the mileage.


Exactly. I wish more automakers (and bring it to the States) would start making a diesel-hybrid.

I know Volvo has the V60 diesel plug-in hybrid but that thing is crazy expensive. I have read that Peugeot has 508 HYbrid4 that is suppose to get 65mpg and VW has some crazy 261mpg diesel hybrid.
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:39 AM   #16
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Regarding emissions... they're clean in EU too.
I looked into this and you are generally correct, at least when referring to 2011-2014 Euro 5b passenger car standards vs. the relevant US standards. For the nitty gritty details see http://tinyurl.com/ComparativeEmissions <-- yes, I am a data nerd.

The one area where the Euro standards are noticeably more lax than those in the US is in NOx emissions. 180 mg/km Euro 5b diesels vs. 70 mg/km for Tier 2 Bin 5 passenger cars (e.g., USDM VW Jetta TDI). Perhaps accommodating that difference is part of the reason we don't see more Euro diesels here, besides the gas vs. diesel fuel price economics...

Quote:
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Corn for ethanol was a huge... HUGE mistake for this economy.

--kC
I'm in full agreement with you on this issue. Corn ethanol is a politically motivated move through and through.
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:16 PM   #17
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I love how Ford keeps comparing the C-Max to the Prius V.. even though it's quite a bit smaller inside (which is important to someone buying a wagon because they need to fit child seats and adults in the rear). Of course, they can't compare it to the standard Prius.. because it gets incrementally better mileage.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:19 PM   #18
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If a diesel engine was used to solely power a motor and charge batteries, would it be a generator and not an "engine" and therefore not as emissions restricted by the epa?
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:58 AM   #19
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That all great but why no sliding doors on the Cmax like Europe?

I was just over seas in June for a bit. Had a Mondelo diesel. Great engine, solid car, good nav, good trans, front and rear sensors for parking. Cmaxs were all over the place. Looked like a great little package.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:05 AM   #20
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That all great but why no sliding doors on the Cmax like Europe?
Both C-MAXs I've driven in Europe were 4 doors. I know the sliding door version exists and yeah I'm surprised that's not the one they'd bring to the US.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:08 AM   #21
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The sliding door model is the "Grand C-Max". It's the Mazda5 alternative.. a bit larger than the C-Max.

As a Mazda5 owner my interest in this car would be much, much higher if it were the Grand. I'd buy the Prius V today rather than downgrade in size.
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:18 PM   #22
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I think White Out's point was to imagine them using small diesel motors in the hybrid, no in place of.
exactly.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:11 PM   #23
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:26 PM   #24
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Remember when you geeks used to argue over what cars were faster instead of which cars get the best MPGs?

Me neither.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:45 PM   #25
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Remember when you geeks used to argue over what cars were faster instead of which cars get the best MPGs?

Me neither.
Pretty much all cars are faster than my old Imprezas these days.
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