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Old 07-10-2012, 06:23 PM   #1
Element Tuning
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Default FRS-BRZ Port Fuel Injector (interesting)

Here's a picture of the OEM port injectors on our FRS vs. the blue top feed injectors used in the WRX/STi



They appear to extend way into the intake runner and are very small. I can't say I've seen these used in any other application but if you have let me know on what vehicle.

Too small for our FRS and what we'll be doing so in went some 750cc I'm running a Hydra EMS so no these will not bolt in your stock FRS/BRZ. I had to make some fuel rail spacers to utilize the OEM fuel rails.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:55 PM   #2
mcu81
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I myself cant wait to see the creation! Those are weird looking injectors. If you are using 750cc port fuel injectors........are you going to be running 100% port fuel and ixnaying the DI?(correct me if I am wrong but isnt the brz port and DI?)
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:41 PM   #3
Element Tuning
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Originally Posted by mcu81 View Post
I myself cant wait to see the creation! Those are weird looking injectors. If you are using 750cc port fuel injectors........are you going to be running 100% port fuel and ixnaying the DI?(correct me if I am wrong but isnt the brz port and DI?)
No we will be running DI and Port Injection. We'll need about 1150cc total to hit 500 whp on E85 which is our goal for this car. I honestly don't even know how larger the DI injectors are so I thought I would start here.
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:18 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
No we will be running DI and Port Injection. We'll need about 1150cc total to hit 500 whp on E85 which is our goal for this car. I honestly don't even know how larger the DI injectors are so I thought I would start here.
Ermagherd!!! Fihunred dubbayew ayeshpee!

*faints*

Eremint toonig pls.



Wow guys.. crazy. Can't wait.
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:41 PM   #5
Element Tuning
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LOL!

The FRS/BRZ port injection fuel pump runs at 55 psi for the record.
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:42 PM   #6
Matt Monson
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Let me know when you get to the gearbox...
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Old 07-11-2012, 04:56 PM   #7
Element Tuning
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Let me know when you get to the gearbox...
Honestly I think it's going to hold but I'm not confident I'm going to be able to put down 500 whp in road race trim (lots of tire smoke). I'm thinking 400-450 whp is going to be a more realistic output given the rear tires I plan to run.

The Corvette guys have a hard time putting down 500+ and they run 335 race slicks. I'm not sure I can fit much more than a 285 without resorting to a major wide body.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:36 PM   #8
Matt Monson
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I'm more worried about that torsen rear end...
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:29 PM   #9
quentinberg007
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The BRZ injector looks very similar in overall design to the Denso injectors that Toyota uses on all of their "xR" generation engines (UR, GR, ZR, AR). I think the inline engines (ZR, AR) have shorter nozzles, while the V engines (GR, UR) have longer nozzles.

2GR
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:44 AM   #10
silverhks
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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
I'm more worried about that torsen rear end...
This and other parts...

I believe the first problem will be getting that to the TIRES, not whether they will hold it

I look forward to seeing which parts can take this abuse and which ones can't
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:43 PM   #11
Element Tuning
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Originally Posted by silverhks View Post
This and other parts...

I believe the first problem will be getting that to the TIRES, not whether they will hold it

I look forward to seeing which parts can take this abuse and which ones can't
Only one way to find out right?
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Old 07-12-2012, 02:13 PM   #12
OrbitalEllipses
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
Only one way to find out right?
I like the way you think!
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
No we will be running DI and Port Injection. We'll need about 1150cc total to hit 500 whp on E85 which is our goal for this car. I honestly don't even know how larger the DI injectors are so I thought I would start here.
fap. fap.
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:26 PM   #14
smokey07
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Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
500 whp on E85 which is our goal for this car.



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Old 07-16-2012, 11:30 AM   #15
Element Tuning
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Hydra EMS has started working on the direct injection code for me after analyzing the OEM scopes of the DI system. It's very interesting and enlightening and we'll have no problems adapting this version of D4S system into the current Hydra EMS hardware.

We will be adopting the OEM direct injection and port injection strategy mostly but we are going to leave DI timing tunable so should I find benefit as we boost this engine we'll have that option to change timing based on load.

Based on the direct injector pulse width at idle I'm going to estimate the OEM direct injector flow is around 400-450cc. As RPM gets towards redline and both the port and DI injectors are firing the total pulse width would suggest less flow however than the sum of both injection systems. Regardless there seems to be plenty of injector pulse width left to play with between the two systems.

The torque drop off in the 4k rpm range can be seen in the injector pulse width scopes also. Clearly a VE drop off there but that will tune out nicely with a turbocharger system

As it sits I think we can get away with some low boost turbocharger systems on the OEM fuel setup but at higher boost levels at least a rising rate fuel pressure regulator is going to be needed for the port injector system.

Thanks,
Phil Grabow
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:34 PM   #16
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Did you start a build thread for this bad boy yet Phil?
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:32 PM   #17
Element Tuning
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Originally Posted by Hold_Fast View Post
Did you start a build thread for this bad boy yet Phil?
Yes but for some reason they stuck in "Press Releases" in Motorsports. Check Motorsports for our 2012 Ultimate Track Car Challenge where you'll see the latest pictures of the car and video footage of the car.

Thanks
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