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Old 07-13-2012, 11:51 PM   #1
DerekDaniel
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Member#: 254088
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manhattan Kansas
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy GT
silver

Default Ok I flashed the 91 ACN LWG map included logs after flash. Can anyone see if better.

Hello nasioc ppl Car is an 08 legacy GT auto, recently I had a catback exhaust put on, and I put on a cobb post maf hose on. So prior to all of that I had flashed my car with cobb accessport 91 ACN map. I was getting -6 in the A/F learning one and my fine knock learning was -2.8 in the 4-5k rpm range then it started to show -4 around 6k rpm. And it did not seem like anything was stabilizing. Bill I added knock sum on these new logs too.

So I reflashed my ecu with 91 ACN map And took some logs idle and cruising before and after and I did about four WOT pulls. The logs started out looking ok but then they got worse with A/F and fine knock actually more values are popping up in the fineknock than before. here are the logs all in sequence can anyone please look at these especially the WOT logs and help me figure out if I have a potential problem. Thank you

here is the idle log immediately after flashing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...lFQdFBIS3NEM0E

here is cruising around right after flashing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...jRqVFV1Tm9ocEE

here is my 1st WOT pull
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FZveTFhR2RqUHc

here is my second WOT pull
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...GFNN1RQNEg3ckE

here is were it starts getting bad my 3rd WOT pull
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2U2S01PMGE4d3c

and worse my 4th WOT pull
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...zlQV3FQaEFSQkE

here is my log for cruising after the pulls
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2NnTk5aMXJQRVE

here is my idle log after my pulls
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mo0ZThOMnllaUE

Please some explain how my 3rd and 4th logs got so ****ty
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Last edited by DerekDaniel; 07-14-2012 at 11:39 AM. Reason: added info
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Old 07-14-2012, 12:26 AM   #2
DerekDaniel
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manhattan Kansas
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2008 Legacy GT
silver

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May it be from doing to many pulls? it seems like if I take two datalogs in a day the second one is always worse?? WTH
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:53 AM   #3
Cobb Tuning
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It appears that the knock follows the "D" range A/F learning as it worsens. You are at -7.8%, which means you likely have some type of fueling issue. Extreme negative values in the "D" range are more problematic as you will then be running that much leaner at WOT (where the perceived rich condition may not even exist or may not exist to the same extent). Your last two WOT logs actually do not have any current knock (you can see the knock sum does not increment at all). That means that you are just seeing the re-applied corrections from before.

Another issue, although not necessarily tied to the knock events you are seeing, is you are getting a pretty good boost spike after the tranny shifts. I would recommend reflash the low wastegate (LWG) version of your 91ACN map. That would also be the most conservative map that we have.

Your best bet is to get a pressure test of the intake tract done to identify and fix any leaks. That is the most likely scenario for the fueling issues at this point.

Bill
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:40 AM   #4
DerekDaniel
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Location: Manhattan Kansas
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2008 Legacy GT
silver

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Imma get a Maf sensor see if that helps A/F thanks bill I just wanna make sure all is well. The dang peoblem with the legacy is the turbo line and inlet are all difficult to inspect to a certain level and Heck I dont know anyone who can do smoke or pressure test in my area. Imma search and see if I can find someone.

Idid notice those boost spikes they did it before I did not know there was a LWG ACN map. Awesome, Thanks billl imma go flash that map
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:54 AM   #5
DerekDaniel
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manhattan Kansas
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy GT
silver

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Here are the logs after flashing the 91 ACN LWG map. All taken right after flash. Bill I still see some boost spike around shifting. The other parameters seem to be looking ok. The A/F seems to be slightly lower than before and alot less knock seems to be going on. Can you review them and see if all is well and give me any tips. I appreciate it. I am just trying to not have to buy a MAF or O2 sensor.

Log 1: Idle after reflash:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...21GMWhaaTNISEE

Log 2: Idle a few minutes after the first idle log:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mZnbGRvNnFqd0E

Log 3: 1st cruising log after 91 ACN LWG flash before going WOT:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...XA0SkhPZjVjN0E

Log 4: 2nd cruising log before going WOT:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2ZhclZjRjdxVkE

Log 5: 1st WOT pull after 91 ACN LWG flash:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...S0zY0s1UlFpMHc

Log 6: 2nd WOT pull sfter 91 ACN LWG flash:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UxVbTJQWGZvSHc

Log 7: 1st Cruising log after WOT pulls:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nI1d3ZaWk5LVWc

Log 8: 2nd cruising log with slight WOT pull after Wot pulls:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...DdYME11eVNwUXc

Log 9: Idle after WOT pulls and cruising 91 ACN LWG:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Gx3dzVaWUNlWmc


Thanks for reviewing these!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by DerekDaniel; 07-14-2012 at 11:57 AM. Reason: added info
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Old 07-14-2012, 12:01 PM   #6
DerekDaniel
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Location: Manhattan Kansas
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2008 Legacy GT
silver

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The boost spikes seem less frequent on the91 ACN LWG map however they were higher than than the regular 91ACN map. The boost spikes before shift were higher on the first WOT log around 17psi. and slightly lower on the 2nd wot log upper 15 and 16 psi. Why would the be slightly higher on the LWG map than the other one? Since the values did decrease a little in the second pull Is it learning it away? and how do they look compared to the spikes I was getting in the normal 91 ACN map logs?

Last edited by DerekDaniel; 07-14-2012 at 12:07 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:55 AM   #7
Cobb Tuning
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Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekDaniel View Post
Here are the logs after flashing the 91 ACN LWG map. All taken right after flash. Bill I still see some boost spike around shifting. The other parameters seem to be looking ok. The A/F seems to be slightly lower than before and alot less knock seems to be going on. Can you review them and see if all is well and give me any tips. I appreciate it. I am just trying to not have to buy a MAF or O2 sensor.

Log 1: Idle after reflash:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...21GMWhaaTNISEE

Log 2: Idle a few minutes after the first idle log:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mZnbGRvNnFqd0E

Log 3: 1st cruising log after 91 ACN LWG flash before going WOT:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...XA0SkhPZjVjN0E

Log 4: 2nd cruising log before going WOT:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2ZhclZjRjdxVkE

Log 5: 1st WOT pull after 91 ACN LWG flash:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...S0zY0s1UlFpMHc

Log 6: 2nd WOT pull sfter 91 ACN LWG flash:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UxVbTJQWGZvSHc

Log 7: 1st Cruising log after WOT pulls:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nI1d3ZaWk5LVWc

Log 8: 2nd cruising log with slight WOT pull after Wot pulls:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...DdYME11eVNwUXc

Log 9: Idle after WOT pulls and cruising 91 ACN LWG:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Gx3dzVaWUNlWmc


Thanks for reviewing these!!!!!!!!!!
Well, your fuel trims are quickly going to the extreme side (as bad as -7%). When you reflash a map, it will clear the A/F Learning 1.

I still think a post-MAF intake leak is the most likely scenario. Bad front o2 would be the second most likey. Typically with bad MAF, you see extreme positive, not negative fuel trims (although it is still possible). If you have a decent air compressor, you can set up your own pressure test rig (search for DIY pressure test on Nasioc). There are also companies that sell the caps you can use for the pressure test.

I don't know anything about this company, but they have a good walkthrough here that will give you an idea of what you are dealing with:
http://www.turboboostleaktesters.com...ARU/Categories

As far as the boost spikes, if you are planning on going stage 2 anyway, the boost characteristics are going to change then. I would get the issue related to the fuel trims fixed and then go stage 2 and then see where you are at.

Really, whenever there is a strong suspicion of a mechanical issue, it is best to focus on getting that fixed. One of your other threads is talking about getting a custom tune. You definitely don't want to get a custom tune with a possible mechanical problem. Get that fixed and go from there.

Bill
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Old 07-15-2012, 11:14 AM   #8
DerekDaniel
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Member#: 254088
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manhattan Kansas
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy GT
silver

Default 2nd day logs with 91ACN LWG map

Bill I believe you are on to something. I thank you for all of your assistance. The LWG map has shown more acceptable knock parameters. The A/F learning is still around -6.25 and staying there. There was slightly more A/F fluctuation with the other maps and alot more knock. I am going to stay with this LWG map and try to track down the leak.

Here are some wot logs I took today and as you can see the fineknock learning is pretty much eliminated there is some knock correction but the numbers are pretty low. Overall switching to the LWG looks to be better for my car! Thank you! for telling me to try that map!!!!

My a/f is staying rather consistent. I am still trying too track down the leaking culprit. Problem with the legacy is the turbo inlet runs under the manifold and hard as heck to check all the lines, and the dang turbo lines are very difficult to access because of how far up the turbo sits. I printed the leak test instructions you provided me now I am trying to track down someone who can perform it for me or buy stuff and do it myself.

A parameter of -6.25 in A/F learning one, is that to much and really bad? or, Should I really be concerned if it goes lower than -8?
I will log some of the ABCD parameters next time to help evaluate what is going on better. It seems as if I am not going to need a protune or e-tune after all. I really do not want to go stage 2 either. I made sure my mid pipe stayed at 2.5 inches when I got my cat back installed, lol, preventive measure. How ever I would like a 3 port ebcs someday. Does cobb have maps for that?

I still see some boost spikes around shifting even with the LWG map they seem slightly less intense and less frequent than before though. What may cause this? Could this be stemming from my A/F?

1st wot pull 15 july
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...lFLZ0xQSXQ4bWc

2nd WOT pull 15 july:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...XRLdzM2d1RLalE

3rd Wot pull in sport sharp mode:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...k9VWXhpc2stdnc

Last edited by DerekDaniel; 07-15-2012 at 12:05 PM. Reason: added logs
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Old 07-15-2012, 11:20 AM   #9
DerekDaniel
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Location: Manhattan Kansas
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy GT
silver

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Appreciate all the help!!!!

Last edited by DerekDaniel; 07-15-2012 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 07-15-2012, 02:36 PM   #10
DerekDaniel
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manhattan Kansas
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy GT
silver

Default Tightening turbo inlet hose

Hello The only spot I could assume with out pressure testing that may be leaking is the turbo inlet hose. I tightened down the clamp some more, and took some logs with A/F learning ABCD. Should I have reset the ecu to remove the learned values to see if it truly did help?

here are the logs after tightening hose. It was also very hot. I also noticed that my car was picking up more fineknock learning than the other logs in the high 4k rpm range around -2.8 could that have been due to the 100 deg. heat since the previous logs do not reflect that?

They value in A/F D seem to be slowly decreasing in each log. is it possible i fixed the leak?

idle log after tightening hose:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...FQ4ZlhfeFc2ZkE

1st pull:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...GJncVFCSEcyX2c

2nd pull:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...0RwVDdVcy1TR3c

and idle after pulls: Notice the A/F learning one values are steadily increasing towards 0 is that good? If you look at the others logs post pull idle stays the same. Is the A/F adjusting? Is it possible that tightening that hose clamp helped?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...G9CaTFUd1dSMGc

Last edited by DerekDaniel; 07-15-2012 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:35 PM   #11
DerekDaniel
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manhattan Kansas
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy GT
silver

Default

So I was looking at some old logs and it seems as if my A/F learning really went nuts after I had the catback installed? why would that happen?

here is another log after tightening the turbo hose clamp: The A/F learning does seem to be decreasing now its in the -3s however knock is going up could it be due to it being hot and learned knock just reapplying? but the initial logs do not have many knock events.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...E9oZUVVVUVUSGc

Bill can ya tell me what is going on here? should I be happy about the A/F improving and now worried about the increase in knock event?

Last edited by DerekDaniel; 07-15-2012 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:25 AM   #12
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekDaniel View Post
So I was looking at some old logs and it seems as if my A/F learning really went nuts after I had the catback installed? why would that happen?

here is another log after tightening the turbo hose clamp: The A/F learning does seem to be decreasing now its in the -3s however knock is going up could it be due to it being hot and learned knock just reapplying? but the initial logs do not have many knock events.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...E9oZUVVVUVUSGc

Bill can ya tell me what is going on here? should I be happy about the A/F improving and now worried about the increase in knock event?
A/F Learning is not perfect - it really depends when the problem (say a leak) is occurring as you hit each separate range. So, you really have to look at it long-term as it can go up and down.

The knock still doesn't look good in this log. I would suggest finding a local Subaru tuning shop and have them do a once over of the car (including a smoke or pressure test of the intake tract if they have that capability). It is difficult to diagnose this issue solely from logs. It may turn out that your local gas quality is especially poor and that you may need a custom tune.

Bill
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