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Old 07-16-2012, 09:18 PM   #1
projectQWKSLVR
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Member#: 285270
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
03 WRX
PSM

Default Data log ?s Learning my logs and AccessTuner

Hey all,

Guess i should start with my car and mods list..

03 wrx ej205 with stock td04
GrimmSpeed PnP ex mani's w/highflow x-pipe
Invidia catless uppipe
Invidia CATTED down
full 3" no name cat back
Stock air box w/ K&N drop in and snorkel delete (real elbow not cut)
AVO turbo inlet
Mishimoto IC hoses
GFB Respons adj BOV (set to full recirc)
Perrin Light/wt crank pulley
NGK iridium plugs (normal temp)
"davenow's" grounding mod
GrimmSpeed AOS
Cobb AP V2 (duh)

I am running Stage 2 91 octane OTS map. I am reading alot before jumping into the Tuner race software. I know it needs a little tweaking, but thats why I'm here to get a lil advice as to what.

I see I have some high rpm feedback knock. The DAM is good at 16. The A/F learning holds 0 except for initial ramp up of boost, which is proper?



https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4Wn...FkZWxBUjg/edit
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:21 AM   #2
Cobb Tuning
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by projectQWKSLVR View Post
Hey all,

Guess i should start with my car and mods list..

03 wrx ej205 with stock td04
GrimmSpeed PnP ex mani's w/highflow x-pipe
Invidia catless uppipe
Invidia CATTED down
full 3" no name cat back
Stock air box w/ K&N drop in and snorkel delete (real elbow not cut)
AVO turbo inlet
Mishimoto IC hoses
GFB Respons adj BOV (set to full recirc)
Perrin Light/wt crank pulley
NGK iridium plugs (normal temp)
"davenow's" grounding mod
GrimmSpeed AOS
Cobb AP V2 (duh)

I am running Stage 2 91 octane OTS map. I am reading alot before jumping into the Tuner race software. I know it needs a little tweaking, but thats why I'm here to get a lil advice as to what.

I see I have some high rpm feedback knock. The DAM is good at 16. The A/F learning holds 0 except for initial ramp up of boost, which is proper?



https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4Wn...FkZWxBUjg/edit
Something is up with your link - there is no preview available in google docs.

Bill
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:52 AM   #3
projectQWKSLVR
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Member#: 285270
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
03 WRX
PSM

Default Trying again

Sorry about that Bill. I set google docs to "share w/everyone". Should be all set.

The first log is from last night, same as above. The second and third are logs from this morning, with an outside air temp of 83 and 85% humidity.





1: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...KQTlHWEE#gid=0

2: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Cc09Demc#gid=0

3: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...aRFpnOWc#gid=0


Thanks for looking and any feedback is greatly appreciated!

-Glenn

Last edited by projectQWKSLVR; 07-17-2012 at 11:14 AM. Reason: useless url's
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:10 AM   #4
projectQWKSLVR
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
03 WRX
PSM

Default

WOW!!! Just trying to get this google docs to cooperate


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...aRFpnOWc#gid=0
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:39 AM   #5
Cobb Tuning
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Originally Posted by projectQWKSLVR View Post
WOW!!! Just trying to get this google docs to cooperate


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...aRFpnOWc#gid=0
Hey Glenn,

You have some fairly consistent knock events at higher RPM in the logs. First thing I would do is to reflash to one of our latest maps (v310). You are running an older map. The new maps are more consistent and may work better for you. Given the knock events, I would go ahead and reflash the v310 91ACN map, which is our most conservative map. You can find our new maps at the cobbtuning.com site in the maps section. Use the AccessPORT Manager software to transfer the map from your computer to your AccessPORT and then reflash to the car (do not realtime flash these particular maps - you will need to reflash which means connecting the green test mode connectors like you did when you installed the AccessPORT).

Mechanical fueling issues are common on older cars. One of the ways we can potentially rule in/out that is there the long-term fuel trims. This is indicated by the A/F Learning 1 A, B, C, D parameters ("A/F Learning 1" is the log shows the currently applied fuel trim). Your fuel trims look fine, but if it hasn't been long since you installed the AccessPORT (or reflashed a map), then it may have not have been long enough for them to populate accurately. Reflash the v310 91ACN map and then do some normal driving through a tank of gas. Then take a look at those fuel trims. They should generally be within +/- 5% (with outside of or close to +/- 8% indicating a potential fueling issue).

Bill
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:38 AM   #6
projectQWKSLVR
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Member#: 285270
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
03 WRX
PSM

Default

Bill,

First I'd like to say, thank you very much for you input and time. I am very happy with all of my COBB products and the customer support doesn't only raise the bar, it sets a standard that is unmatched.

Now back to the logs... After posting the logs, I realized i was still running the older map, and not the new (310) map. With the known and repeated Feedback knock, I flashed the Stage 2 91 ACN map. I took the car out for a "normal" ride, watching over the various monitors. It didn't take long for the DAM to rise back to 16, there was no feedback knock registered, and only a small amount of Fine knock, all seemed well.

So I logged a 3rd gear pull, which you can see here....

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nQVJxRnc#gid=0

Looks pretty good, but only about 15 miles after the reflash, so there hasn't been sufficient time for the A/F learning to well, learn. So i drove around a little more, setting myself up for another SAFE place to log another pull. Before i got to the next "logging road", I lost complete control of boost

I limped home, tail tucked. I check every hose clamp, vac line, blah blah blah. After finding nothing, I mean NOTHING, I determined the OEM BCS must have pooped. I was down, but far from out. On the shelf sits a new GrimmSpeed EBCS So naturally I install it, only took a few minutes. I then hook up my computer with the accessport in the car, and launch the AccessTunerRace software.

I scaled all of the WGDC tables using a common multiplier of .7, reducing the tables by 30%. I've read that some fine tuning of the turbo dynamics tables may be in order, but i have not touched them at this time.

I am attaching 3 logs that are the base Stage 2 91 ACN with only the WGDC tables adjusted as mentioned above. In the first log there is a bit of boost oscillation between about 3k rpm and 4,500. It did smooth out and taper off as it should though, so i know I'm getting close to where the WGDC table values should be.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...6S1dWRXc#gid=0

It seems in the next 2 logs that the Turbo Dynamics tables (Boost pulse and Boost error pos/neg comp) are stepping in and helping to flatten out the oscillation. Is my logic correct? What direction should i head to combat the boost errors?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UU25WdVE#gid=0


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...ybFFrc3c#gid=0

Thanks again for your time and help. Any tips or direction is greatly appreciated. I am fairly new to the software, but I learn very quickly.

-Glenn
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:32 AM   #7
Cobb Tuning
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Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by projectQWKSLVR View Post
Bill,

First I'd like to say, thank you very much for you input and time. I am very happy with all of my COBB products and the customer support doesn't only raise the bar, it sets a standard that is unmatched.

Now back to the logs... After posting the logs, I realized i was still running the older map, and not the new (310) map. With the known and repeated Feedback knock, I flashed the Stage 2 91 ACN map. I took the car out for a "normal" ride, watching over the various monitors. It didn't take long for the DAM to rise back to 16, there was no feedback knock registered, and only a small amount of Fine knock, all seemed well.

So I logged a 3rd gear pull, which you can see here....

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nQVJxRnc#gid=0

Looks pretty good, but only about 15 miles after the reflash, so there hasn't been sufficient time for the A/F learning to well, learn. So i drove around a little more, setting myself up for another SAFE place to log another pull. Before i got to the next "logging road", I lost complete control of boost

I limped home, tail tucked. I check every hose clamp, vac line, blah blah blah. After finding nothing, I mean NOTHING, I determined the OEM BCS must have pooped. I was down, but far from out. On the shelf sits a new GrimmSpeed EBCS So naturally I install it, only took a few minutes. I then hook up my computer with the accessport in the car, and launch the AccessTunerRace software.

I scaled all of the WGDC tables using a common multiplier of .7, reducing the tables by 30%. I've read that some fine tuning of the turbo dynamics tables may be in order, but i have not touched them at this time.

I am attaching 3 logs that are the base Stage 2 91 ACN with only the WGDC tables adjusted as mentioned above. In the first log there is a bit of boost oscillation between about 3k rpm and 4,500. It did smooth out and taper off as it should though, so i know I'm getting close to where the WGDC table values should be.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...6S1dWRXc#gid=0

It seems in the next 2 logs that the Turbo Dynamics tables (Boost pulse and Boost error pos/neg comp) are stepping in and helping to flatten out the oscillation. Is my logic correct? What direction should i head to combat the boost errors?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UU25WdVE#gid=0


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...ybFFrc3c#gid=0

Thanks again for your time and help. Any tips or direction is greatly appreciated. I am fairly new to the software, but I learn very quickly.

-Glenn
I would go ahead and add TD Continuous, TD Burst, and Wastegate Max to your logs. With a 3-port EBCS, you may need to flatten the TD tables a bit to control the oscillation. It can be time consuming to get this right. If you still end up having trouble, it might be easier to start at a lower wgdc high (say 50% to 60% of the original values) and then add say 5% back in at a time until you get close to your peak target. Then experiment with the TD tables (especially continuous) to find that happy medium between good spool with no boost spike.

Bill
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:23 AM   #8
projectQWKSLVR
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Member#: 285270
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
03 WRX
PSM

Default

I'm going to add those monitors to the data log list, and make a few pulls.

I do have one more question for you Bill. Is the "goal" to have the TD values read close to 0.0 under full boost? From what I understand the TD tables are for boost corrections, meaning you don't want them stepping in very much, unless there is a boost control event. Is this correct?
The last thing I want to do is tune myself out of a safety net, and have nothing left in tables to combat a spike.

Thanks again Bill!

-Glenn
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:32 AM   #9
Cobb Tuning
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by projectQWKSLVR View Post
I'm going to add those monitors to the data log list, and make a few pulls.

I do have one more question for you Bill. Is the "goal" to have the TD values read close to 0.0 under full boost? From what I understand the TD tables are for boost corrections, meaning you don't want them stepping in very much, unless there is a boost control event. Is this correct?
The last thing I want to do is tune myself out of a safety net, and have nothing left in tables to combat a spike.

Thanks again Bill!

-Glenn
TD continuous is what you'll see be the most active. It is entirely based on boost error. The goal is to have good boost response without appreciably overshooting your target and without significant wavering/oscillations. So, really, the goal is to minimize boost error.

Bill
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:34 PM   #10
projectQWKSLVR
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Member#: 285270
Join Date: Jun 2011
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
03 WRX
PSM

Default

Thanks again Bill. You are the man!

I added 1% to the target boost, pulled 3% from part of the WGDC table, and flattened out the TD continuous table. Then just kinda smoothed out the transition points, if u will.

The results are great! Much faster spool than before. I hold a solid 16.6 psi in 4th from about 2800 until it starts to taper off at about 5800. I still have a small amount of oscillation in 5th gear under WOT, but to experience that were talking speeds that are UNSAFE for anything but a race track.

I'll probably end up tweaking a little more later on, but for now I am very pleased.

I'd like to again thank you personally Bill, and the entire Cobb Tuning staff! Keep up the great work guys!

-Glenn
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:49 AM   #11
Cobb Tuning
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by projectQWKSLVR View Post
Thanks again Bill. You are the man!

I added 1% to the target boost, pulled 3% from part of the WGDC table, and flattened out the TD continuous table. Then just kinda smoothed out the transition points, if u will.

The results are great! Much faster spool than before. I hold a solid 16.6 psi in 4th from about 2800 until it starts to taper off at about 5800. I still have a small amount of oscillation in 5th gear under WOT, but to experience that were talking speeds that are UNSAFE for anything but a race track.

I'll probably end up tweaking a little more later on, but for now I am very pleased.

I'd like to again thank you personally Bill, and the entire Cobb Tuning staff! Keep up the great work guys!

-Glenn
No problem Glenn. Glad you got it dialed in!

Bill
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