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Old 08-07-2012, 10:45 AM   #151
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Awesome. That extra 100 WHP has to completely transform this car into what it really should be. The TQ curve is amazingly flat...nice job guys.

I also drove the BRZ and felt that it did not live up to the hype. Slower than a miata and handled about the same for a stock car. Really needed more engine to make it as good as they said it is...IMHO.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:52 PM   #152
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From a guy that used a prototype kit to turbocharge an xB. This is badass and I look forward to seeing where this goes.
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:50 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Squidz View Post
Slower than a miata
No, it's not. It's as fast as your WRX is (stock to stock).
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Old 08-08-2012, 06:58 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
No, it's not. It's as fast as your WRX is (stock to stock).
Erm? How do you figure? Power-to-weight, the WRX has more. BRZ's 0-60 is 6.4 seconds while the '03 WRX is 5.6 (nearly a second faster) and the WRX's turbo will only make the distance between the two cars even greater as the run gets longer... I'm stumped.
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:27 PM   #155
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Wow Toledo getting recognized for something? I can officially be proud of being an alumni from that city!
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:30 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eekay
Erm? How do you figure? Power-to-weight, the WRX has more. BRZ's 0-60 is 6.4 seconds while the '03 WRX is 5.6 (nearly a second faster) and the WRX's turbo will only make the distance between the two cars even greater as the run gets longer... I'm stumped.
Did you miss the dyno graph where this thing is making 272 whp?
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:33 PM   #157
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Pretty sure he was comparing stock to stock. Not really fair to compare a modded brz to a stock Wrx. If ur gonna do that I'd at least use a modern wrx and not the 7-10 year old ones
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:38 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StackSmasher View Post
Did you miss the dyno graph where this thing is making 272 whp?
Did you miss where the replied to wrote "(stock to stock)"?
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:12 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eekay View Post
Erm? How do you figure? Power-to-weight, the WRX has more. BRZ's 0-60 is 6.4 seconds while the '03 WRX is 5.6 (nearly a second faster) and the WRX's turbo will only make the distance between the two cars even greater as the run gets longer... I'm stumped.
You do realize that you have to consider power at the wheels and not power at the crank when comparing power-to-weight ratios? You do know about drivetrain losses? Right?
2003 WRX --> 180whp and 3100 lbs --> 17.2 lbs/hp
2013 BRZ --> 160whp and 2800 lbs --> 17.5 lbs/hp
It's awfully close. On a proper road course, after a couple of corners, the WRX would loose whatever lead it managed to build up.
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:27 PM   #160
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^ how did u account for awd v rwd on the track?

Comparing cars like that is pointless. Anything that close is gonna be all driver. Even cars 150hp+ apart can be decided by driver.
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:34 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
^ how did u account for awd v rwd on the track?

Comparing cars like that is pointless. Anything that close is gonna be all driver. Even cars 150hp+ apart can be decided by driver.
Why cant you compare the two. Same driver for each car battling for the fastest track time sounds like a fair comparison to me. Awd, fwd, rwd, 4wd, whatever. Two cars enter, one car leaves.
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:40 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
You do realize that you have to consider power at the wheels and not power at the crank when comparing power-to-weight ratios? You do know about drivetrain losses? Right?
2003 WRX --> 180whp and 3100 lbs --> 17.2 lbs/hp
2013 BRZ --> 160whp and 2800 lbs --> 17.5 lbs/hp
It's awfully close. On a proper road course, after a couple of corners, the WRX would loose whatever lead it managed to build up.

Thats if you get a 160whp hp car.. I have seen two dynoed an FRS auto and a BRZ stick the brz dynoed 154-156 and it fell each successive run.. The Auto FRS dynoed like 150 and the second run it dynoed 134.

I dont think you can compare the two they are not similar platforms. Driver matters more.

That turbo kit sure does help the car though.. Thats how it should of came stock. Then Again I dont think they are aiming for it to compete against the wrx/sti and others
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:49 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
Why cant you compare the two. Same driver for each car battling for the fastest track time sounds like a fair comparison to me. Awd, fwd, rwd, 4wd, whatever. Two cars enter, one car leaves.
in an actual race, yes.

but simply saying x car has lb/hp vs y car with lb/hp....

just saying trying to pick a winner on paper is pointless.

and i really dont know why we're comparing 2013 cars to 2003 cars....
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:00 AM   #164
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The debate started due to the mention of the BRZ being slower than a Miata with a reply of "Faster than your WRX stock vs stock". In all honesty, I don't care how this car compares to an STi or anything else Subaru makes. I want to see how it compares to other cars in it's class. Especially after this turbo job...
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Old 08-09-2012, 02:04 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron
^ how did u account for awd v rwd on the track?

Comparing cars like that is pointless. Anything that close is gonna be all driver. Even cars 150hp+ apart can be decided by driver.
And I agree. I was just reacting to eekay saying that the 03 WRX had an advantage in power-to-weight ratio. I was just showing that the numbers are actually very close.
But, the BRZ is 300 lbs lighter than the 03 WRX and that's going to matter around corners.
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:41 AM   #166
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It will matter around corners. But, so will the turbo boost out of a corner (if the corner is driven correctly). Regardless, I really just want to see what becomes of this BRZ. I'd love to see it be absolutely great.
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:37 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
And I agree. I was just reacting to eekay saying that the 03 WRX had an advantage in power-to-weight ratio. I was just showing that the numbers are actually very close.
But, the BRZ is 300 lbs lighter than the 03 WRX and that's going to matter around corners.
Nice car but as stated its legacy lays with the ae86.. Not a fast car by any means.. But lightweight and a good competer for its class.. Its powerband is the typical NA with a Bad Vtec design and its not Dynoing what it should stock.
A 200hp car dynoing 150-160 wheel is what a 25-20 percent loss in power..

However This FRS dynoed 173 STOCK..

A 2011 SI dynoed 192hp Stock

A 2012 SI dynoed 175 hp stock

Same dyno

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/garag...rs-dynoed.html
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:18 AM   #168
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My question is when is the restrictive stock exhaust going to be removed for a turboback and have that bad boy over 300whp?
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:12 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eekay View Post
The debate started due to the mention of the BRZ being slower than a Miata with a reply of "Faster than your WRX stock vs stock".


I said it's "as" fast as a stock 2.0l WRX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
No, it's not. It's as fast as your WRX is (stock to stock).


Discounting the WRX's AWD launch (and thus faster 0-X times), their acceleration is dead on one another. Look at their near identical 1/4 mile trap speeds (the best indicator of power/weight and average acceleration). It's a dead heat.

As it's been said, countless times, for over a decade now: Excluding the AWD launch, a stock EJ20 WRX would run a low 6 second 0-60, and a 15 second 1/4 mile at about 95 MPH. Sounds like a BRZ doesn't it?

Last edited by REX8; 08-09-2012 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:17 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post


I said it's "as" fast as a stock 2.0l WRX.

Discounting the WRX's AWD launch (and thus faster 0-X times), their acceleration is dead on one another. Look at their near identical 1/4 mile trap speeds (the best indicator of power/weight and overall average acceleration). It's a near dead heat once they're moving.

As it's been said, countless times, for over a decade now. Without the AWD launch, a stock EJ20 WRX runs a low 6 second 0-60, and a 15 second 1/4 mile at about 95 MPH. Sounds like a BRZ doesn't it?
The worst times i have seen out of a stock first gen wrx is mid high 14s. Again though drivers can make a 14 second car run 16s-17s
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:19 AM   #171
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The worst times i have seen out of a stock first gen wrx is mid high 14s. Again though drivers can make a 14 second car run 16s-17s
Miss the part where I said "without the AWD launch"? Look at the trap speed...aka mid 90s. Once off the line, it accelerates as hard as a low 15 second 2WD car (like an RSX-S, etc.).

Again, you can't compare 0-X times AWD vs. 2WD. That's how idiots think, for example, their WRX/STI, which traps 103 in the 1/4, is as fast as a vette or a 911, which might run a similar 0-60 time, but traps 5-10 mph more

The same ridiculous rationale that got early WRX owners calling their cars almost equivalent in speed to LS1 Camaros and 911s, both running about 5.0 seconds to 60 at the time. Completely ignoring that once moving, those cars are vanishing out their windshield at an alarming rate.

Trap speed is a MUCH more accurate indicator of overall acceleration (and power/weight). Put the BRZ and the WRX exiting a corner together onto a straightway, and they're staying right on one another's doors.


C/N: If you think a BRZ is too slow to own, you must also think a 2.0l WRX is too slow to own.

Last edited by REX8; 08-09-2012 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:24 AM   #172
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http://www.zeroto60times.com/Subaru-0-60-mph-Times.html

I personally ran a 13.9 with bone stock 02 wrx and I'm 100% sure someone has gone faster...
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Old 08-09-2012, 08:48 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by wrxlaunch View Post
http://www.zeroto60times.com/Subaru-0-60-mph-Times.html

I personally ran a 13.9 with bone stock 02 wrx and I'm 100% sure someone has gone faster...
Are you guys even reading the thread, or just posting whatever pops into your head?
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:40 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Squidz View Post
I also drove the BRZ and felt that it did not live up to the hype. Slower than a miata and handled about the same for a stock car. Really needed more engine to make it as good as they said it is...IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
No, it's not.
Yes, it actually is:

Brz:

0-60 - 6.4
1/4 - 14.9 @ 95.5
Skidpad - .92g
60-0 - 108 ft.

Miata:

0-60 - 6.3
1/4 - 14.8 @ 92.4
skidpad - .92g
60-0 - 120 ft.

With the BRZ having 33CHP more than the miata, these numbers are dissapointing. They handle about the same, and the BRZ (STOCK) is in fact slower.

I obviously havn't driven the turbo car, and it's amazing i have no doubt...but you can turbocharge miatas as well. Not taking anything away from what the guys are doing with this turbo kit...completely different car. But the fact of the matter is...the stock BRZ is in fact, slower than a miata...and handles about the same...for more money.

Quote:
It's as fast as your WRX is (stock to stock).
03 wrx: 0-60 - 5.7sec ... 1/4 - 14.2 @ 95.7

13 BRZ: 0-60 - 6.4sec ... 1/4 - 14.9 @ 95.5

I don't know where you learned to do math...but that's not quite the same...or even relaitively close.
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:57 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidz View Post
Yes, it actually is:

Brz:

0-60 - 6.4
1/4 - 14.9 @ 95.5
Skidpad - .92g
60-0 - 108 ft.

Miata:

0-60 - 6.3
1/4 - 14.8 @ 92.4
skidpad - .92g
60-0 - 120 ft.

With the BRZ having 33CHP more than the miata, these numbers are dissapointing. They handle about the same, and the BRZ (STOCK) is in fact slower.

I obviously havn't driven the turbo car, and it's amazing i have no doubt...but you can turbocharge miatas as well. Not taking anything away from what the guys are doing with this turbo kit...completely different car. But the fact of the matter is...the stock BRZ is in fact, slower than a miata...and handles about the same...for more money.



03 wrx: 0-60 - 5.7sec ... 1/4 - 14.2 @ 95.7

13 BRZ: 0-60 - 6.4sec ... 1/4 - 14.9 @ 95.5

I don't know where you learned to do math...but that's not quite the same...or even relaitively close.


YOU! Outta the pool!!!!!

Third guy in a row to not read before posting. Congrats! Thanks a lot of posting standing start acceleration numbers THAT NO ONE IS DISPUTING.

See the identical trap speeds of the WRX and the BRZ? It means that they have just about identical acceleration once moving.

The difference in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times is down to the AWD traction off the line of the WRX, and not any added power/weight.

Jesus.

Do you post before you read? You only furthered the point being made.

The BRZ traps 3 mph faster than the Miata. So, on a road course, heading down the straight, guess which car is pulling away? Oh, that's right, the BRZ. Why, because, overall, it's a faster car.

Oh, I forgot, this is proven power bragging, where launching matters more than power/weight/acceleration.

When someone says one car is faster than another, what I assume you mean, is that, in gear, mashing the gas, which car will pull away. In that regard, the BRZ and the WRX are a DEAD HEAT with one another.

Apparently, your definition of "faster" means, which one can cut the faster 60' time.



Question:

Which one of these cars do you consider generally the faster accelerating car:

Car 1 (AWD): 14.1 @ 95

Car 2 (2WD): 14.5 @ 100

If you picked car 1, you're completely lost. Car 2 accelerates significantly harder than car 1...and only at a drag strip, with a hard standing start launch, would car 1 finish ahead of car 2.



I suppose my stage II WRX, which does 4.7 to 60, and traps 100 in the 1/4 is as fast as my M3, which does 4.7 to 60, and traps 104? The BMW WALKS away from the Suby once moving, it's not close. Only a true fanboy would attempt to argue that the WRX is as fast.

Last edited by REX8; 08-09-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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