Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday September 21, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-02-2002, 03:30 AM   #1
xfactor834
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12506
Join Date: Nov 2001
Default UTEC = Too Hardcore for Average User???

I was just wondering if turboxs' UTEC is perhaps too hardcore for the average user.

Is it?

My future mods will consist of Vishnu Stage 0, turbo back exhaust, SBC-ID, and that's pretty much it.

I know it can do so many things, but for the average user, would $1000 be better spent elsewhere?

Anyone?

All I want to do is shave a second off my 0-60 times and perhaps run in the low to mid 12's while making my car funner and quicker to drive.

Is a UTEC overkill for someone like me?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
xfactor834 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2002, 03:45 AM   #2
SonicYellowWRX
Guest
 
Member#: 23351
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: i <3 drifting
Vehicle:
Pika Chu!
TEAM DARRIIFFFTAA

Default

nah you can look at it as simply a matter of convenience, too. there are 5 user selectable maps... say you have a stage 2 set-up right now and then you upgrade to a stage 4... flick a switch and you have the stage 4 map. no more sending it back to turboXS, paying shipping and handling - back and forth, waiting all that time, etc. etc. and there is a place to plug in a computer on it and you can download a new map, right onto the unichip! you can turn off the CEL's!! (BIG PLUS) its not any harder to use, it simply has more options... and if you wanna tune it yourself, you can do that too. i suppose if you say, "ok, i want a stage 4 kit and I have $4000 to spend right now and I will be done modding the engine" then in that case, a unichip programmed for stage 4 would be perfect! if you dont have that kinda money off the bat, then maybe you want to save up and get the turbo back and unichip... then save up for more, then save up and get more... in that case, the convenience factor would warrant getting the UTEC.
SonicYellowWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2002, 06:57 AM   #3
teiva-boy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 22825
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

For the price it's selling at, it can do a lot for the money. It will be one of the key components that will help you achieve your goal.

However, it really sounds like the UTEC user enabled functions maybe a bit much for you. Your better off, just upping your current Stage 0 to a higher stage as your mods increase on your car.
teiva-boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2002, 11:40 AM   #4
gossamer_monster
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3574
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Blase' Yellow----R.I.P.

Default

Just because the UTEC is adjustable doesn`t mean you HAVE to adjust it.

The nice thing about the UTEC over the unichip is that it is consistent.

Bill
gossamer_monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2002, 12:56 PM   #5
xfactor834
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12506
Join Date: Nov 2001
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by gossamer_monster
Just because the UTEC is adjustable doesn`t mean you HAVE to adjust it.

The nice thing about the UTEC over the unichip is that it is consistent.

Bill
What do you mean that it's consistent?
xfactor834 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2002, 01:18 PM   #6
RiftsWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6124
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Glendale Hts, IL, USA
Vehicle:
2000 NFR AP1 S2000
'07 Honda FIT sport (5MT)

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by xfactor834


What do you mean that it's consistent?
Perhaps you need to read the other thread then....

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
RiftsWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2002, 01:23 PM   #7
titsataki
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4402
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New Haven, Connecticut
Vehicle:
2009 Outback XT
DGM

Default

I think that it takes over the stock ECU functions completelly. It does not intercept and modify like the Unichip. That way you are not dependent on how the stock ECU reacts.

Also it can become a stand alone via updated software. I think for $1000 is a very nice alternative.

By the way to get into the low to mid 12's you will need a stage 4 in TXS or a Vishnu stage II. Unichip will be fine with either but a more complete solution will be a stand alone and some professional tuning(dyno time).

Cheers

Nick
titsataki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2002, 01:24 PM   #8
gossamer_monster
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3574
Join Date: Jan 2001
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Blase' Yellow----R.I.P.

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by RiftsWRX


Perhaps you need to read the other thread then....

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
lol, ya, its been gone over a few times in previous threads about the UTEC.

You won`t get the variations you would see with the unichip ie, timing all over the place and cold weather issues.

Bill
gossamer_monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2002, 02:41 PM   #9
GDA
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4324
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: (925) CA
Vehicle:
02 GDA
Platinum

Default

The UTEC would be nice for you.

I would say if your just gonna be stage zero, exhaust, and boost controller just stick with the unichip.

I mean if your absolutely sure thats all your gonna do to the car (which is rare for most enthusiast), then i would suggest the unichip and do something with the extra cash.

but if your going for some larger power (injectors, pump, turbo upgrade, etc) then by all means go for the UTEC.

All the people in this thread so far have good suggestions of why you should get it. (conveiniece, stability, user programmability, map switching, etc).

but if your really, really not gonna get that deep then keep it simple.

good luck

GDA
GDA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2002, 03:04 PM   #10
Rich10
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14934
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
WRB

Default

One thing that should be considered is that used unichips are going for less than half the price of a utec. If you don't need the user adjustability feature of the utec, the unichip might be a better buy. Remember that you can buy a used unichip (with harness and ABC) and other components (say a downpipe or alternatively an uppipe, GFB pulleys and Samco hoses) for less than the price of a utec. Or one could just buy the used unichip and have more than $500 in you pocket. If you are going to get all of these components anyway and money isn't a concern, get the utec.
Rich10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2002, 10:10 PM   #11
xfactor834
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12506
Join Date: Nov 2001
Default

Thanks for the advice guys...

Rifts...I'm reading it...don't worry...
xfactor834 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2002, 10:22 PM   #12
Red Rocket
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10507
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
'04 Ex STi Owner
'97 4Runner

Default

Bigger turbo?

You'll get more bang for the buck running a larger turbo on stock computer and fuel.

Actually, you'll find that very few people are running low 12's without NO2. It's harder than you think.

Kevin
Red Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2002, 01:06 AM   #13
Sordid Philosopher
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16854
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: East Bay - CA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Sedan
White

Default

I REALLY want stage IV, but my problem is since gas here is only 91 Octane (I'm not going to mess with toulene) I want to beef up my pistons. I found a forged pison kit that also strokes out to 2.2 liters for only $2500.

What I don't know is if I will be able to get the UTEC setup for my 2.2L and stage IV without going dangerously lean. I have no prior ECU type experiance.

Does anyone know if it seems likely that I will be able to learn the UTEC before I blow up my engine?

Thanks.
Sordid Philosopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2002, 08:45 AM   #14
Carlo
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 18376
Join Date: May 2002
Location: 367 WHP / 460 at the Crank!
Vehicle:
367 WHP!
460 HP at the crank!

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket
Bigger turbo?

You'll get more bang for the buck running a larger turbo on stock computer and fuel.

Actually, you'll find that very few people are running low 12's without NO2. It's harder than you think.

Kevin
Actually, you don't really find that many people running in the 12s (high or low) without N2O. The ones that are more or less are 12.8s or higher (generally speaking).

A 12 second street car is FAST. I think because we read here on I-Club about 11 second runs (with N2O) and a couple of people who have pulled 12.3-12.5 without N2O that we loose track of "real" times and expect each of our cars to be able to do this with a couple of mods

We've had a brutal summer heat wise and I think the majority of the 1/4 mile track times show this. Now that it's finally starting to get cooler (at least here on the east coast) we'll probably start seeing better track times and maybe a few more times in the 12s.

Carlo
Carlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2002, 10:03 AM   #15
WhiteRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12666
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chandler
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
White

Default More consistent????

Ok Jorge,

As you were a beta tester for the UTEC, I have a question about consitency (and I read the other thread, well at least the first 11 pages). You say it is more consistent, with the timing, etc. But is that more consistent with no user programming? Right out of the box just more consistent than a Unichip? And if so, why can't the Unichip have the same UTEC program and be more consistent. I wonder this as I have TXS Stage 2 and thinking about going to Stage 4, but staying with my Unichip, from a price perspective, and if the new Unichip program is consistent, why spend the extra if I won't use the features (although I like the idea of switching programs, but know I will not change any paramteres on my own). I wonder mostly as I have the Apex-i rev/speed meter and consistently see the hp measure between 189 and 216, most consistently at 204-207 range in second gear. And even with seat of pants, you can tell a big difference in the 25 hp swing. I would go with the UTEC if the consistency came without me having to change the program, and if that same consistency is not available with a re-mapped Unichip. I present these questions to you as you seem to have a good deal of knowledge on the product, although it might be better directed at TXS, but if you are in the know, I would love to hear your thoughts
WhiteRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2002, 10:27 AM   #16
Twelvz
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11302
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: VA Beach VA + Cleveland!
Vehicle:
11 GT-R
10.x @130+

Default Re: UTEC = Too Hardcore for Average User???

Quote:
Originally posted by xfactor834
My future mods will consist of Vishnu Stage 0, turbo back exhaust, SBC-ID, and that's pretty much it.

I know it can do so many things would $1000 be better spent elsewhere?
wouldn't blow the $$ on the SBC-ID when the UTEC can control boost...
Twelvz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2002, 11:18 AM   #17
RiftsWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6124
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Glendale Hts, IL, USA
Vehicle:
2000 NFR AP1 S2000
'07 Honda FIT sport (5MT)

Default Re: More consistent????

Quote:
Originally posted by WhiteRX
Ok Jorge,

As you were a beta tester for the UTEC, I have a question about consitency (and I read the other thread, well at least the first 11 pages). You say it is more consistent, with the timing, etc. But is that more consistent with no user programming? Right out of the box just more consistent than a Unichip? And if so, why can't the Unichip have the same UTEC program and be more consistent. I wonder this as I have TXS Stage 2 and thinking about going to Stage 4, but staying with my Unichip, from a price perspective, and if the new Unichip program is consistent, why spend the extra if I won't use the features (although I like the idea of switching programs, but know I will not change any paramteres on my own). I wonder mostly as I have the Apex-i rev/speed meter and consistently see the hp measure between 189 and 216, most consistently at 204-207 range in second gear. And even with seat of pants, you can tell a big difference in the 25 hp swing. I would go with the UTEC if the consistency came without me having to change the program, and if that same consistency is not available with a re-mapped Unichip. I present these questions to you as you seem to have a good deal of knowledge on the product, although it might be better directed at TXS, but if you are in the know, I would love to hear your thoughts
The simple answer to your question is this...

Unichip = OFFSET interceptor

UTEC = STATIC timing control

So... even if you never touched the UTEC.. it will deliver the programmed timing EACH AND EVERY TIME.... where the unichip is up to the gross timing value of the computer AT THAT TIME...

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
RiftsWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2002, 11:48 AM   #18
wrxsvt
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2981
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Shawnee, KS (KC)
Default

While we're on the subject of consistency, and since Jorge is in on this thread, I'm reposting a question I asked in the 'UTEC INFO' thread that never got answered. And it seems to be related to this thread as well, so hopefully it doesn't look like I'm hijacking. . .

In reference to the WRX factory ECU being, well, flaky when it comes to timing, what is the leading theory on why this is the case? ECU timing fluctuation was given as the reason why Unichip tuning has been somewhat difficult and may not give optimal results in all situations, and the reason why the UTEC will completely take care of this issue (since it can have complete control of timing rather than adjusting the factory ECU timing curve).

My question is, why does the factory ECU do what it does (ie. advance and retard timing in a seemingly random fashion)? Is it overly sensitive? Is it trying to reduce emissions? Why is the extra latitude programmed in? A friend made the point that if the factory ECU DOES fluctuate like it does, there must be a reason for it. And if youíre going to be carving your own timing curve with the UTEC that will be very consistent and unchangable by the factory ECU, is that going to create problems? I donít think it will, and I think it should help the engine run better; but the question was asked and I didnít have an answer . . .
wrxsvt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2002, 11:57 AM   #19
RiftsWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6124
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Glendale Hts, IL, USA
Vehicle:
2000 NFR AP1 S2000
'07 Honda FIT sport (5MT)

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by wrxsvt
While we're on the subject of consistency, and since Jorge is in on this thread, I'm reposting a question I asked in the 'UTEC INFO' thread that never got answered. And it seems to be related to this thread as well, so hopefully it doesn't look like I'm hijacking. . .

In reference to the WRX factory ECU being, well, flaky when it comes to timing, what is the leading theory on why this is the case? ECU timing fluctuation was given as the reason why Unichip tuning has been somewhat difficult and may not give optimal results in all situations, and the reason why the UTEC will completely take care of this issue (since it can have complete control of timing rather than adjusting the factory ECU timing curve).

My question is, why does the factory ECU do what it does (ie. advance and retard timing in a seemingly random fashion)? Is it overly sensitive? Is it trying to reduce emissions? Why is the extra latitude programmed in? A friend made the point that if the factory ECU DOES fluctuate like it does, there must be a reason for it. And if youíre going to be carving your own timing curve with the UTEC that will be very consistent and unchangable by the factory ECU, is that going to create problems? I donít think it will, and I think it should help the engine run better; but the question was asked and I didnít have an answer . . .
Overly sensative is hardly the case... but again (in pure speculation) it's overly protective...

But seeing how no one here is a denso engineer responsable for the beast.... your guess is as good as mine.

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
RiftsWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2002, 03:28 PM   #20
WhiteRX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12666
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chandler
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
White

Default

Thank you for your input Jorge.

The post by WRXSVT leads me to another question with static timing control: will that mean the UTEC is not as safe as the Unichip? I mean, if the factory ECU detects knock or some other danger to the engine and pulls timing, the Unichip would go along with that. But now the UTEC will not let it and that seems like extra danger to your engine. It might be the case that the ECU is overly protective anyway, and this margin of safety is redundant/not needed, but how comfortable is TXS with that?

Let me tell you, I would love to be able to get in my WRX and get the 210+-3 or so from my rev/speed meter on a consistent basis and not the 205+-20 I have now. And that without extra risk above a Unichip at the same boost, etc would be great and would justify my $750 expense
WhiteRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2002, 03:43 PM   #21
xfactor834
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12506
Join Date: Nov 2001
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by WhiteRX
Thank you for your input Jorge.

The post by WRXSVT leads me to another question with static timing control: will that mean the UTEC is not as safe as the Unichip? I mean, if the factory ECU detects knock or some other danger to the engine and pulls timing, the Unichip would go along with that. But now the UTEC will not let it and that seems like extra danger to your engine. It might be the case that the ECU is overly protective anyway, and this margin of safety is redundant/not needed, but how comfortable is TXS with that?

Let me tell you, I would love to be able to get in my WRX and get the 210+-3 or so from my rev/speed meter on a consistent basis and not the 205+-20 I have now. And that without extra risk above a Unichip at the same boost, etc would be great and would justify my $750 expense
This is a great point.

Furthermore, would it be a good idea to mix Vishnu's kits with the UTEC, or should I now start thinking the Turbo XS route if I'm getting a UTEC?
xfactor834 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2002, 03:52 PM   #22
digitaltekniq
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18029
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: ATX
Default

From TXS:

"Knock control - automatically retards timing when the knock is detected safeguarding against engine damage"

I think people are confusing CONSISTENT timing with an ignorant embedded system that'll do its thing no matter what's going on - which frankly is pointless in something as variable as a car.

If anything - the UTEC is just as, if not better and detecting knock and dealing with it than the factory ECU. Pete did mention they tuned it to respond by running 30+ degrees of advance under different loads to "train" it into recognising the pattern of detonation (something he didn't recommend other people did *heheh*).

Then again - all I have to go on is Jorge and TXS's info so far - Jorge - chime in

Cheers

Rich
digitaltekniq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2002, 06:26 PM   #23
tolnep
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18602
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Planet tolnep
Vehicle:
2005 Moller Skycar
glow in dark purple

Default

All this ECU discussion is confusing. I plan to mod my car. In the end I want as much 'usable' HP as I can get that doesn't make my car a grenade. Note that I don't plan to drag race, rally or autocross. I don't want to only have power above say 5000 RPM with a huge turbo, cams dialed in for high RPM output. What I do want is as much usable street HP as I can enjoy without having to worry about destroying the engine. Note that if I could get a tractable 600HP out of this engine I would do it unless it cost a fortune (tractable is the operable word here). I realize that this isn't realistic and I think its sort of missing the point to say you want xxx HP.

For this, I am willing to (and eventually expect to) replace the exhaust system (including the Turbo if it brings the desired results). Replace the ECU with whatever works best for me. Add a solid set of guages that let me keep up with whats going on (EGT, boost and A/F perhaps). And have a tuner set the rig up for me. If for me a motec or TecIII or Autronic or UTEC or UNICHIP is best then that's what I want. But if I don't need something (because it provides no value) then I don't want it. Note that the last time I went throught this exercise, I spent about 15K on the engine/turbo setup over a year or more. Started by identifying all the right parts and vendors, blue-printing and balancing the engine and then doing all assembly, installation myself. During this process I had to weed out all sorts of misleading info. So I'm willing to pay the price and take the time to reach my goals.

There is a lot of discussion on this forum with varying points of view especially about ECUs. What you guys need to do is have an independent body review each of the various ECUs and point out there advantages and disadvantages. I know this wont happen but one can always wish for things... I would love to see a side by side comparison of each of the ECU solutions...
tolnep is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Image is too yellow for passport... AcquaCow Off-Topic 47 06-01-2010 10:06 PM
Any hardcore google G1 users in here? generalganja Off-Topic 41 05-29-2009 08:44 PM
Max pressure for average intercooler? anickode General Community 15 10-04-2008 08:30 PM
ECU too smart for EBC... how about UTEC? Stang2WRX Engine Management & Tuning 7 05-06-2003 07:04 PM
2002 WRX...too little....too late...for way too much $$$ WRX-1977 New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 54 01-11-2001 12:44 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.