Timing belt snapped, possible dead engine?

Chupa517 · 07-29-2012, 06:04 PM

Hey all, will try to keep this as short and simple as possible. Thanks for any advice.

My sisters car died about a month ago ('02 impreza 2.5rs), and I recently got the chance to tear into it. Found no spark/no fuel. Checked OBD, was giving P0340 - cam position sensor error. Replaced sensor, same issue. Took off timing belt cover, found timing belt had snapped.

Got everything torn apart, my sister not having a lot of money, wanted me to just replace the belt instead of the kit. Found out her tensioner was bad, so had to replace that as well. Got the cams/crank pulleys lined up using the white timing marks, all placed at the top. No slipping of the timing belt or anything seeming abnormal.

I can smell fuel now when I pull a plug out, so it seems to have fixed that. There are two issues now. No Spark still. Could it possibly be a bad coil? Also, 3 out of the 4 cylinders are showing *0* compression. Front left cylinder (when looking from the front of the car), showed ~125psi.

To me, it seems as though valves were smashed in 3 out of the 4 cylinders when the timing belt snapped.

Could there possibly be another reason why I would get 0 compression from 3 out of the 4? Also any idea about the spark?

Thank you guys for any help

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Mstolz · 07-29-2012, 07:48 PM

This is defiantly a guess so keep that in mind but when the bet snapped it may have broken the crank sensor resulting in no spark. And having 0 compression it did probably bend valves.

SubaruSam8 · 07-29-2012, 07:51 PM

I had the same problem with my 04 wrx, timing belt was shredded and broke 2 pullys , it its the shop getting diagnosed now, ill let you know how bad my engine is, semming we might have the same problem.

cal_look_zero · 07-29-2012, 08:41 PM

Welcome to interference engines. Her valves are definitely bent. Head on over to RS25 and look for a good set of used heads.

Chupa517 · 07-29-2012, 09:03 PM

Mstolz - I'll definitely be having to check the OBD codes again to check if that's the case.

SubaruSam8 - Sorry to hear that man, hopefully yours isn't in as bad of shape lol.

Cal_look_zero - Yeah lol, definitely not new to interference engines, but was hoping I may have been missing/forgetting something.

Guess I'll have to recheck codes and see why it still has no spark.

Thanks guys

RaceFaceXC · 07-29-2012, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubaruSam8

I had the same problem with my 04 wrx, timing belt was shredded and broke 2 pullys , it its the shop getting diagnosed now, ill let you know how bad my engine is, semming we might have the same problem.

Is the 255 an interference engine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cal_look_zero

Welcome to interference engines. Her valves are definitely bent.

This. Also, that's dirty.

Mstolz · 07-29-2012, 10:16 PM

2004 wrx has an ej205

RaceFaceXC · 07-29-2012, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mstolz

2004 wrx has an ej205

Ahh, yes. Very true. Regardless, is it an interference engine?

ManualOverAuto · 07-30-2012, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaceFaceXC

Ahh, yes. Very true. Regardless, is it an interference engine?

Aren't

edro* · 07-30-2012, 01:25 PM

yea the 205 is interference

Chupa517 · 08-01-2012, 02:47 PM

So I found a set of used heads off of a 2009 2.5 SOHC. Anybody know if these would fit a 2002 2.5RS SOHC?

Thanks

02darkRS · 08-01-2012, 03:49 PM

Not sure about fitment but if they do fit, you'll just have to run her drivers side cam gear and position sensor. I am running an 07 2.5i block and heads on an 02 2.5RS ECU. Only issue was needing to replace the cam gear and position sensor with my stock one.

RaceFaceXC · 08-01-2012, 03:52 PM

What about the AVLS solenoid? Thought you had to run voltage to it and deal with lumpy idle or you would always be on the low lobe.

02darkRS · 08-01-2012, 04:07 PM

I have had no such issues. I've only recently had a rough idle and it is more likely due to a dirty IACV than the AVLS. I believe you are running on the low lobe though as, there is no way to move to the high without the ECU. I've tried dealing with Crawford on it and they said there was no way to use the AVLS with the SRS reprogram.

The only issue I have run into with the motor is under WOT, it tends to hang out and not shift. So, if this happens just tell her to ease off the throttle a bit and it will shift.

Chupa517 · 08-01-2012, 06:43 PM

Sorry, I don't believe I mentioned before that it's a standard transmission. So just swapping out the Cam gear and position sensor and it should be good to go?

Thanks

02darkRS · 08-01-2012, 08:10 PM

afaik, yes. i used an 07 block and heads, but i think they are the same. may want to look into what could be different between the two years.

only other issue I had was there is an egr on the newer models. on the 02 manifold there is no egr inlet. you'll want to find out if that comes out of the block or heads. I think it's the block, and if so you don't have to worry about it. If it's the heads, you're going to have to block it off somehow. I went through a bunch of plumbing caps until I found one that stayed on.

cal_look_zero · 08-02-2012, 02:19 AM

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f177/t182...5rs-heads.html

02darkRS · 08-02-2012, 11:19 AM

more info on the AVLS heads install. I found this for blocking off the EGR port. Sounds like an oil plug will work:
http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...back-sort.html

and if you're interested in using the AVLS read this:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ht=avls&page=3

Chupa517 · 12-02-2012, 08:12 PM

Ok, so here's my update, and apologize for any misspelling as this is from my phone.

I tore everything apart, got 16 new valves, new valve seals, new head gaskets etc...

I got it all together, car runs, but runs rough. Doesn't leak, doesn't overheat, but the issue that I've found is all 4 plugs are getting fouled up pretty quick with what seems to be carbon. No bad smells or anything, not even a gas smell though really.

My gut is telling me that its timing that is off by a tooth or two. Anybody have any other ideas as to what it could possibly be?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

RaceFaceXC · 12-02-2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chupa517

Ok, so here's my update, and apologize for any misspelling as this is from my phone.

I tore everything apart, got 16 new valves, new valve seals, new head gaskets etc...

I got it all together, car runs, but runs rough. Doesn't leak, doesn't overheat, but the issue that I've found is all 4 plugs are getting fouled up pretty quick with what seems to be carbon. No bad smells or anything, not even a gas smell though really.

My gut is telling me that its timing that is off by a tooth or two. Anybody have any other ideas as to what it could possibly be?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

Can you log the ecu? Ignition advance and AFR could be helpful, amongst other parameters

Chupa517 · 12-02-2012, 08:51 PM

I would have to tow it somewhere in order to get any diagnostics. I haven't even found my compression tester yet

.

I set valve lash to .020 for intake, and.025 for exhaust. Under hood states .010 intake, and.015 exhaust, but from what I've found the FSM states .020 & .025. There is some valve chatter, so I'll be relashing them soon. I would think if that was effecting it, it would be running lean right?

If I clean up the plugs though, it seems to run ok for the first couple minutes idleing, but stutters a bit when throttle is applied. The plugs have not been wet at all, just eems like carbon getting built up quickly.

ballitch · 12-05-2012, 08:07 PM

First of all, did you lap the new valves? If not, then you need to take the heads off and disassemble them and do it. You can't just throw in new valves and call it good.

Lash is supposed to be in the neighborhood of .008'' intake, .010'' exhaust. Or close to it.

You HAVE to use the timing DASH style marks, NOT the stupid triangle mark on the crank. Make sure all timing marks are at 12'o'clock when you put the belt on, ignore the marks on the belt if they don't let you put all marks to 12'o'clock.

~Josh~

Chupa517 · 12-08-2012, 02:49 AM

Thanks for the input.

I did lap the new valves, filled combustion Chambers, never leaked.

I found out I had used the wrong timing mark on the drivers cam gear. The passenger gear and crank gear are marked with white paint on the imprinted mark,s, but the drivers side gear was not. It put the drivers gear about 1-1.5 teeth off.

I removed/reinstalled the timing belt, and lined them up correctly this time, and runs great. I did re-lash the valves to .010 and .015, still a little ticking but not nearly as bad as it was lol.

Thank you all for your help. It's been really appreciated. Now I just get to keep my eye on any possible leaking/fluid loss.

07-29-2012, 06:04 PM	#1
Chupa517 Scooby Newbie Member#: 252660 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Vehicle: 2002 Impreza 2.5 RS Grey	Timing belt snapped, possible dead engine? Hey all, will try to keep this as short and simple as possible. Thanks for any advice. My sisters car died about a month ago ('02 impreza 2.5rs), and I recently got the chance to tear into it. Found no spark/no fuel. Checked OBD, was giving P0340 - cam position sensor error. Replaced sensor, same issue. Took off timing belt cover, found timing belt had snapped. Got everything torn apart, my sister not having a lot of money, wanted me to just replace the belt instead of the kit. Found out her tensioner was bad, so had to replace that as well. Got the cams/crank pulleys lined up using the white timing marks, all placed at the top. No slipping of the timing belt or anything seeming abnormal. I can smell fuel now when I pull a plug out, so it seems to have fixed that. There are two issues now. No Spark still. Could it possibly be a bad coil? Also, 3 out of the 4 cylinders are showing 0 compression. Front left cylinder (when looking from the front of the car), showed ~125psi. To me, it seems as though valves were smashed in 3 out of the 4 cylinders when the timing belt snapped. Could there possibly be another reason why I would get 0 compression from 3 out of the 4? Also any idea about the spark? Thank you guys for any help * Registered users of the site do not see these ads. Last edited by Chupa517; 07-29-2012 at 06:05 PM. Reason: forgot to put year/engine of car.

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07-29-2012, 07:48 PM	#2
Mstolz Scooby Newbie Member#: 317237 Join Date: Apr 2012	This is defiantly a guess so keep that in mind but when the bet snapped it may have broken the crank sensor resulting in no spark. And having 0 compression it did probably bend valves.

07-29-2012, 07:51 PM	#3
SubaruSam8 Scooby Newbie Member#: 327287 Join Date: Jul 2012 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Fort CampBell ,Kentucky. Vehicle: 2004 Subaru WRX Silver/Black	I had the same problem with my 04 wrx, timing belt was shredded and broke 2 pullys , it its the shop getting diagnosed now, ill let you know how bad my engine is, semming we might have the same problem.

07-29-2012, 08:41 PM	#4
cal_look_zero Scooby Specialist Member#: 294461 Join Date: Sep 2011 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Grass Pants, OR Vehicle: 1997 Outback Sport Acadia Green Metallic	Welcome to interference engines. Her valves are definitely bent. Head on over to RS25 and look for a good set of used heads.

07-29-2012, 09:03 PM	#5
Chupa517 Scooby Newbie Member#: 252660 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Vehicle: 2002 Impreza 2.5 RS Grey	Mstolz - I'll definitely be having to check the OBD codes again to check if that's the case. SubaruSam8 - Sorry to hear that man, hopefully yours isn't in as bad of shape lol. Cal_look_zero - Yeah lol, definitely not new to interference engines, but was hoping I may have been missing/forgetting something. Guess I'll have to recheck codes and see why it still has no spark. Thanks guys

07-29-2012, 10:16 PM	#7
Mstolz Scooby Newbie Member#: 317237 Join Date: Apr 2012	2004 wrx has an ej205

07-30-2012, 01:25 PM	#10
edro* Scooby Newbie Member#: 177764 Join Date: Apr 2008 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Charlton Ma Vehicle: 2004 STi Adriatic Blue	yea the 205 is interference

08-01-2012, 02:47 PM	#11
Chupa517 Scooby Newbie Member#: 252660 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Vehicle: 2002 Impreza 2.5 RS Grey	So I found a set of used heads off of a 2009 2.5 SOHC. Anybody know if these would fit a 2002 2.5RS SOHC? Thanks

08-01-2012, 03:49 PM	#12
02darkRS Scooby Newbie Member#: 80918 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: ohio Vehicle: 02-7 MBP RS/i hybrid now w/ AVLS!	Not sure about fitment but if they do fit, you'll just have to run her drivers side cam gear and position sensor. I am running an 07 2.5i block and heads on an 02 2.5RS ECU. Only issue was needing to replace the cam gear and position sensor with my stock one.

08-01-2012, 03:52 PM	#13
RaceFaceXC Scooby Specialist Member#: 165749 Join Date: Dec 2007 Chapter/Region: South East Location: stupid Florida Vehicle: 2007 No YELLING on the bus!	What about the AVLS solenoid? Thought you had to run voltage to it and deal with lumpy idle or you would always be on the low lobe.

08-01-2012, 04:07 PM	#14
02darkRS Scooby Newbie Member#: 80918 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: ohio Vehicle: 02-7 MBP RS/i hybrid now w/ AVLS!	I have had no such issues. I've only recently had a rough idle and it is more likely due to a dirty IACV than the AVLS. I believe you are running on the low lobe though as, there is no way to move to the high without the ECU. I've tried dealing with Crawford on it and they said there was no way to use the AVLS with the SRS reprogram. The only issue I have run into with the motor is under WOT, it tends to hang out and not shift. So, if this happens just tell her to ease off the throttle a bit and it will shift.

08-01-2012, 06:43 PM	#15
Chupa517 Scooby Newbie Member#: 252660 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Vehicle: 2002 Impreza 2.5 RS Grey	Sorry, I don't believe I mentioned before that it's a standard transmission. So just swapping out the Cam gear and position sensor and it should be good to go? Thanks

08-01-2012, 08:10 PM	#16
02darkRS Scooby Newbie Member#: 80918 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: ohio Vehicle: 02-7 MBP RS/i hybrid now w/ AVLS!	afaik, yes. i used an 07 block and heads, but i think they are the same. may want to look into what could be different between the two years. only other issue I had was there is an egr on the newer models. on the 02 manifold there is no egr inlet. you'll want to find out if that comes out of the block or heads. I think it's the block, and if so you don't have to worry about it. If it's the heads, you're going to have to block it off somehow. I went through a bunch of plumbing caps until I found one that stayed on.

08-02-2012, 02:19 AM	#17
cal_look_zero Scooby Specialist Member#: 294461 Join Date: Sep 2011 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Grass Pants, OR Vehicle: 1997 Outback Sport Acadia Green Metallic	http://www.rs25.com/forums/f177/t182...5rs-heads.html

08-02-2012, 11:19 AM	#18
02darkRS Scooby Newbie Member#: 80918 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: ohio Vehicle: 02-7 MBP RS/i hybrid now w/ AVLS!	more info on the AVLS heads install. I found this for blocking off the EGR port. Sounds like an oil plug will work: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...back-sort.html and if you're interested in using the AVLS read this: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ht=avls&page=3

12-02-2012, 08:12 PM	#19
Chupa517 Scooby Newbie Member#: 252660 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Vehicle: 2002 Impreza 2.5 RS Grey	Ok, so here's my update, and apologize for any misspelling as this is from my phone. I tore everything apart, got 16 new valves, new valve seals, new head gaskets etc... I got it all together, car runs, but runs rough. Doesn't leak, doesn't overheat, but the issue that I've found is all 4 plugs are getting fouled up pretty quick with what seems to be carbon. No bad smells or anything, not even a gas smell though really. My gut is telling me that its timing that is off by a tooth or two. Anybody have any other ideas as to what it could possibly be? Any help is greatly appreciated!

12-02-2012, 08:51 PM	#21
Chupa517 Scooby Newbie Member#: 252660 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Vehicle: 2002 Impreza 2.5 RS Grey	I would have to tow it somewhere in order to get any diagnostics. I haven't even found my compression tester yet . I set valve lash to .020 for intake, and.025 for exhaust. Under hood states .010 intake, and.015 exhaust, but from what I've found the FSM states .020 & .025. There is some valve chatter, so I'll be relashing them soon. I would think if that was effecting it, it would be running lean right? If I clean up the plugs though, it seems to run ok for the first couple minutes idleing, but stutters a bit when throttle is applied. The plugs have not been wet at all, just eems like carbon getting built up quickly.

12-05-2012, 08:07 PM	#22
ballitch Scooby Specialist Member#: 74907 Join Date: Nov 2004 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: salem, OR Vehicle: 98 cam'd EJ251 Wrx Tranny,slowr than ish	First of all, did you lap the new valves? If not, then you need to take the heads off and disassemble them and do it. You can't just throw in new valves and call it good. Lash is supposed to be in the neighborhood of .008'' intake, .010'' exhaust. Or close to it. You HAVE to use the timing DASH style marks, NOT the stupid triangle mark on the crank. Make sure all timing marks are at 12'o'clock when you put the belt on, ignore the marks on the belt if they don't let you put all marks to 12'o'clock. ~Josh~

12-08-2012, 02:49 AM	#23
Chupa517 Scooby Newbie Member#: 252660 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oregon Vehicle: 2002 Impreza 2.5 RS Grey	Thanks for the input. I did lap the new valves, filled combustion Chambers, never leaked. I found out I had used the wrong timing mark on the drivers cam gear. The passenger gear and crank gear are marked with white paint on the imprinted mark,s, but the drivers side gear was not. It put the drivers gear about 1-1.5 teeth off. I removed/reinstalled the timing belt, and lined them up correctly this time, and runs great. I did re-lash the valves to .010 and .015, still a little ticking but not nearly as bad as it was lol. Thank you all for your help. It's been really appreciated. Now I just get to keep my eye on any possible leaking/fluid loss.