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Old 05-06-2013, 06:00 PM   #1
warpath
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Default New Alfa Spider and Mazda MX-5 will Reportedly Get Different Engines

Carscoop: http://www.carscoops.com/2013/05/new...mx-5-will.html



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The marriage of Japanese technology and Italian design is a very fortunate one; the collaboration between Alfa Romeo and Mazda, for the creation of the new Spider and MX-5 is even more so. However, while we do expect the two cars to be quite competent, we’re curious to see how the manufacturers choose to differentiate them.
Now, while the styling will be predictably different, the cars will share the same platform and many mechanical bits. One thing they won’t share are reportedly the engines, which will be manufacturer-specific for each of the two offerings.

The Mazda is expected to get a SKYACTIV 1.6-liter petrol motor, with around 130 hp, while the Alfa should get the 1.4-liter MultiAir engine in its lesser variants, while cars higher up in the range may be fitted with the 1750 TBi unit. Power for the Italian cars should range from between 120 hp and 296 hp, according to British magazine Autocar.

The publication’s report also states that Mazda’s version of the roadster will not use any kind of forced induction, keeping their engines naturally-aspirated and high-revving. This is one key difference between the two roadsters, in my view, and it will give the cars very distinct characters, because, after all, the engine is the dominant force in such a small and light roadsters. Both cars are expected to get six-speed manual gearboxes as standard.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:43 PM   #2
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1.6 liter, 130hp, non-turbo Miata?

So torque is out of the question then?

That is less than my 99 Miata, that merely has two airbags and seat belts, and that's it.

Current safety standards seem to make it unlikely to be smaller or anywhere near 2300lbs that it would take for the Miata with 130hp to remain roughly near the same performance as it has been.

Mazda will be insanely stupid if they retreat from FRS's 200hp competition... and some people want even more than that.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:55 PM   #3
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Mazda reported the target weight is 1000 kg. I don't know if that has since be thrown out the window.

Either way all speculation aside, I trust Mazda won't screw this up and staying NA makes perfect sense for this application.

It would be nice to think they'd go all out and put an S2000-like screamer under the hood, but if they did it certainly wouldn't be the first model out the gates on the new platform...
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:02 PM   #4
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Mere Speculation.. Who knows what mazda will do. With every generation of miata, The Hp has always gone up and never down. I can see it staying the same, maybe. I just don't think mazda can afford to keep the car under powered. Even with low weight chassis.

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Old 05-06-2013, 09:25 PM   #5
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What if, and this is hugely wishful thinking

they introduce the new rotary they have been working on in the new miata!!!!
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:35 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
What if, and this is hugely wishful thinking

they introduce the new rotary they have been working on in the new miata!!!!
The new Mazda rotary is supposedly going in the RX7 successor, and price-wise, it's supposed to slot between the 370Z and GTR. I was a little disappointed when I heard that, but I guess it's expected for them to charge that much for a successor to a car like the RX7. I'm interested to see what setup the Alfa Spider is going to have and how much they'll charge for that. Factory turbo/rwd/roadster would be sweet.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:04 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
What if, and this is hugely wishful thinking

they introduce the new rotary they have been working on in the new miata!!!!
That would be (and would have been!) fantastic. It's the perfect power delivery for a Miata chassis. I don't understand why they never did this... it's certainly not an issue of engineering ... I'll blame the marketing dept for this gross oversight.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:01 PM   #8
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130hp is weak, no matter how light car will be.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:37 AM   #9
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130hp is weak, no matter how light car will be.
How much hp does a Hayabusa have, again...?
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:42 AM   #10
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How much hp does a Hayabusa have, again...?
He did say "car".
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:45 AM   #11
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130hp is weak, no matter how light car will be.
Man. I would have loved to have 130hp in my Justy. The I production class speed record Justy had about 120.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:50 AM   #12
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Mazda knows what it's doing and has a history of fussing over controlling mass. This new chassis will greatly benefit from Skyactiv tech.

130 HP in a light car is plenty, particularly when the car is balanced. If the 1.6 revs to 8,000 rpm and has a decent VVT setup, it'll be a hoot.

The Miata has never been about magazine racing: it wins real races on real tracks.
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:21 AM   #13
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What he said. ^^^
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzyzx View Post
Mazda reported the target weight is 1000 kg. I don't know if that has since be thrown out the window.

Either way all speculation aside, I trust Mazda won't screw this up and staying NA makes perfect sense for this application.

It would be nice to think they'd go all out and put an S2000-like screamer under the hood, but if they did it certainly wouldn't be the first model out the gates on the new platform...
If they do manage that weight, I'd love to see it come with 220hp.

Perfect balance with a 1:10 power to weight ratio is as close to perfect as I dare hope for.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:55 AM   #15
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The new Mazda rotary is supposedly going in the RX7 successor, and price-wise, it's supposed to slot between the 370Z and GTR.
Not only is that a huge window, but would it be a pseudo halo car for mazda? That would be the most expensive mazda sports car ever made, and would people be willing to spend 50k on one? I'm tired of everyone and their brother thinking there is a seemingly unlimited market for 50K+ sports cars. There simply cannot be, unless people are being retarded with their money to get these sports cars, because the average income or income distribution isn't high enough to support the bazillion different incarnations of 50k+ sport cars there is (unless they're ultra high profit margin, meaning ultra high rip off prices).

I make ~60k a year before taxes/healthcare/etc in NEW MEXICO and I can barely find $300 at the end of the month with no car payment after paying for both my stuff and my girlfriend's stuff (she's in med school with no income and I don't want her to take out more loans). That puts me at over the median home income which on average has TWO contributing parties... yeah. I'm not seeing where it's coming from. I mean, I guess when I turn 25 there's some HUGE reduction in insurance that will get me another $100 a month .

TL;DR: These econobox car companies need to focus on econo sports cars instead of having some stupid halo sports car that will get discontinued in 4 years. Learn from the FRS's success.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
Mazda knows what it's doing and has a history of fussing over controlling mass. This new chassis will greatly benefit from Skyactiv tech.

130 HP in a light car is plenty, particularly when the car is balanced. If the 1.6 revs to 8,000 rpm and has a decent VVT setup, it'll be a hoot.

The Miata has never been about magazine racing: it wins real races on real tracks.
It wins nothing outside of mazda spec miata races and auto cross, neither of which I would consider "real tracks" or "real races". Compete with the big dogs at the big open track events or don't bother.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:15 AM   #17
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You did not just say that...

Wait..


read your previous post...'when I turn 25'.

okay got it

Continue ranting aimlessly.

More mazdas are raced on more tracks than any other brand in the world.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:36 AM   #18
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That "296hp" caught my attention. I'd love a high-powered Alfa with Mazda reliability!
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:37 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
It wins nothing outside of mazda spec miata races and auto cross, neither of which I would consider "real tracks" or "real races". Compete with the big dogs at the big open track events or don't bother.
The Miata is a good sports and don't need any serious power. 130 hp is enough for fun any day.

"Big dogs"? S2000
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:37 AM   #20
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It's cool and they are fun cars. They're (well they were) dirt cheap. I'm pretty sure a miata has won the 24 hours of lemons (note: not Le man) every year, and that's cool too. They also have a huge plethora of other cars that do well in motor sports. None of that pertains to the miata being an open class monster, here or in the mother land of the rising sun.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:44 AM   #21
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The Miata is a good sports and don't need any serious power. 130 hp is enough for fun any day.

"Big dogs"? S2000

along with plenty of big US tuners using it for their open class TA car.

Last edited by WRXHillClimb; 05-07-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:55 AM   #22
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The ~100hp in my '90 Miata is still enough to spin a tire or get the back end to step out around an auto-x course. I'm sure it'd be better with big expensive tires, but not everyone does that to a DD. I actually prefer to let the back end hang out a bit here and there. It's more fun to drive.

130hp should be plenty of fun in a lightweight sports car. Of course it could be faster if they put a 200hp engine in it, but then you'll spend too much time trying to keep the ass end behind the front...sort of like everything with an AMG badge.


And WTF with that S2000 picture. Not that one exists, but couldn't you have searched for a picture of a car that actually looked decent?
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
Mazda knows what it's doing and has a history of fussing over controlling mass. This new chassis will greatly benefit from Skyactiv tech.

130 HP in a light car is plenty, particularly when the car is balanced. If the 1.6 revs to 8,000 rpm and has a decent VVT setup, it'll be a hoot.

The Miata has never been about magazine racing: it wins real races on real tracks.
I have a Miata. I have had it for more than 10 years.

I have never driven it on any track.

I drive it in traffic, and it is something you have to/get to rev to the sky to make the car move with authority. With any less power, especially less displacement and torque, if it can't get out of it's own way until the engine tries to spin it's bearings, that may become a problem.

My Miata is ~2400lbs, and is factory rated at 144hp, and while fine on side streets and some highways, I try not to take it on the interstate, because at 75-ish MPH, it gets wind blown by semi trucks, is extremely loud and tiresome, and doesn't have much more power for evasive maneuvers around people who don't see such a small car from their hulking SUVs.

Lighter weight offsetting less power may be theoretically good for a spec racing series with similar weight and powered cars, but it does not make it a better road car.

And as a road car, it still has to be federalized to all the safety standards, even as much as I don't agree with some of them... and a Miata is verging on driving a tin can down the road, in terms of safety, as it is. Any lighter weight that compromises what strength the car has, and less capable of evasive maneuvers, due to less power, is a move in the wrong direction.

Miata is a road-going sports car first, not a race car. And any further behind the 8-ball it gets... will make it a less appealing option on the road, regardless of the track.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 05-07-2013 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:59 AM   #24
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And WTF with that S2000 picture. Not that one exists, but couldn't you have searched for a picture of a car that actually looked decent?
Better? Or did you mean that that s2000 looks bad. In which case, I would politely disagree as that s2000's pedigree is the best of any ever made. It has set tons of records and is the fastest s in the world from the most reputable tuner company of the s2k in japan. Full dry carbon body. That car (and any other race car that has been so duly built) is dead sexy, because of the undeniable purpose which its looks exude.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:00 AM   #25
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That puts me at over the median home income which on average has TWO contributing parties... =
Actually, on average a household has more like 1.3 contributing parties. It isn't until you get to the top quintile that you hit 2, and the top fifth of all households make over 100K. Still not a lot of money, but enough to buy a reasonably nice car if that's your priority, and a fifth of the U.S. is a big chunk of people.
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