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Old 08-03-2012, 01:23 AM   #1
Diverdave
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Default I Got a Bad Tune Please Help

So I got a really bad tune, and ruined my engine... Here is the info:
2006 Subaru Baja GT (turbo)
3" Turbo back exhaust with cats
Shorty intake
Greddy g18 turbo
1 really bad tune

I lived in Fairbanks AK and did not have a selection of tuners so I had a kid work on it, but he had no experience with Bajas. He gave me about 21 pounds of boost, but couldn't get it to quit detonating. I am running 3 degrees of base and 5 degrees of advance on my timing and it still detonates at wide open throttle (92 octane).
I moved to Juneau and can't find a tuner. I had a massive detonation event recently and lost compression in a cylinder... I assume I melted a piston. I need the boost and timing brought back to something a little closer to normal before I replace the engine so it won't happen again.
I have a Tactrix cable and ECUflash now so I can tune it myself, but am not sure which settings lower the boost. I brought the max duty cycle WAY back, but it only lowered the pressure by 2 lbs. Adjusting the target boost didn't seem to change anything.
What are my options here? No tuner in town. I have a ton of experience pulling a wrench (heavy duty diesel mechanic for 11 years), but none tuning. My assumption is that 21 lbs of boost without massive engine modifications is too much...
I can't figure out how to attach a screenshot of my wastegate and target boost maps. Is there anyone out there that could look at my settings and say "THERES YOUR PROBLEM"? I won't be able to check this for a couple days.

Thanks guys,
Dave
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:17 AM   #2
quazimoto
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Why don't you just purchase an "e-tune" tune from a reputable tuner like Torqued Performance or Phatbotti Tuning? And you probably might want to rule out a mechanical issue first. 21psi a stock motor isn't unheard of but obvously the right timing and fueling have to go along with that. You add pictures in buy uploading pics to Photobucket (or similar website) and linking to the URL or clicking on the precoded [IMG] link.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:48 AM   #3
ctsquid
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I really do think an e-tune would be your best bet. they're relatively cheap and most of the familiar names have a very reputable background.
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:14 PM   #4
VFXWRX
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What injectors and fuel pump are you running?
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:27 PM   #5
endrswrd
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this ^^^. If you would post up logs and your ROM, I could clean it up and make it 'safe'. But you would still need a good tune....
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:31 PM   #6
Diverdave
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Default Bad Tune

Thanks guys. The fuel pump and injectors are stock. I have no mods past what I listed. Oh, except the wideband A/F sensor, which is reading 10.0 at WOT. It only reads down to 10:1, so it's richer than that.
As for etuners. I am a bit leary about having somebody work on my car from a thousand miles away. Are these guys reputable? Is there a gaurantee that they can fix it? Does anyone have an etuner that they have used personally and will recommend?

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/w...75/BajaMap.png

Thanks again,
Dave
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:13 PM   #7
dux10
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wow... Sounds like the kid had no clue what he was doing. I pm'd you. Feel free to email me your rom. If you don't want to use what I send you back, that's fine, but I can offer you some advice after looking through it...
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Old 08-03-2012, 07:13 PM   #8
endrswrd
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Dave, a safe tune could be had as an E tune. Once you get the car up and running again, a couple sets of logs and tweaks will get you much closer to where you would want to be. Honestly, If you are competant enough, you could have members on here help you tune it. That way you learn more about tuning, learn more about your car, and feel better about what you have on the car.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:19 PM   #9
Diverdave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endrswrd View Post
Dave, a safe tune could be had as an E tune. Once you get the car up and running again, a couple sets of logs and tweaks will get you much closer to where you would want to be. Honestly, If you are competant enough, you could have members on here help you tune it. That way you learn more about tuning, learn more about your car, and feel better about what you have on the car.
Thats exactly what I am looking for! I have been building V-8 powered normally aspirated hotrods since I was old enough to drive, so I can jet a carb and turn a distributer as well as anyone. But this is my first time trying to use a keybord to tune anything.
I found a stock map for an '05 Baja (mines an '06) online. I loaded it in to see how it ran. It was pretty sluggish with throttle openings up to about 50%. Above 50%, it was still sluggish, but overboosted and killed the engine. I attribute that to the free flowing exhaust and the larger turbo. So I raised the boost press fuel cutoff to a higher (18psi) value.
It was still sluggish and the A/F ratio was pretty lean. At WOT I ran it up to about 4500 rpm and the A/F got down to 13.7. It had some slight detonation (nothing like it was with the bad tune), but that might clear up with some better fueling. But when I checked the Open Loop fuel chart, the ratios all looked pretty reasonable.
Question, the A/F table (open loop) has RPM on the Y axis, and g/rev on the X axis. Is it not enrichening because is is so sluggish (not getting g/rev that it should)? Is the open loop table the primary source of the A/F ratio?
Right now I am wishing it had a Holley Dominator on it...
On another subject, I am not sure how the boost is controlled. I assume that it tries to hit a value set in the Target boost table, as long as it is between the min and max duty cycle. Is that correct? What are the units for the Values in the target boost table? The previous tuner set some of the min values higher that the max values. How does that affect the tune?

Thanks a bunch for the insight guys, I really appreciate the help.
Dave
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:45 AM   #10
jbulls93
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If you are running a stock boost control solenoid it may be contributing to your issue. Not 100% certain but aren't they known to be unstable, etc at much higher than stock levels?
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:13 AM   #11
quazimoto
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1626520

Learning to tune is not going to happen overnight. Stock injectors on an 18G at 21psi is not a good idea. The biggest thing with learning how to tune modern OBDII EFI is being able to tell if you have a mechanical issue or a tuning issue. What is the specific brand intake on the car? You cannot just slap any old intake on an "open MAF" car an have it run right. If the inner diameter of the new intake is different than the old then that affects your fueling,especially openloop fueling which does not use O2 sensor feedback.
http://www.cobbtuning.com/Technical-...es-s/70677.htm
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:47 PM   #12
Diverdave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quazimoto View Post
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1626520

Learning to tune is not going to happen overnight. Stock injectors on an 18G at 21psi is not a good idea. The biggest thing with learning how to tune modern OBDII EFI is being able to tell if you have a mechanical issue or a tuning issue. What is the specific brand intake on the car? You cannot just slap any old intake on an "open MAF" car an have it run right. If the inner diameter of the new intake is different than the old then that affects your fueling,especially openloop fueling which does not use O2 sensor feedback.
http://www.cobbtuning.com/Technical-...es-s/70677.htm
I wouldn't have thought that the stock injectors could keep up at 21 psi. I'm not saying that they would if it were running properly. All I know is that it runs rich (<10.0:1) until it starts detonating at about 4000 rpm. It's dead rich at 4000 rpm, but I dont stay in it to see if it went lean at higher revs. I have never heard anything like a boosted engine pinging....

The intake is a STP from Subaru. I doubt that they would sell something that would require further modifications? The turbo back exhaust was from Xcelleration.com. When I installed these two items, the car started overboosting and cutting the fuel at WOT. I took it to my old tuner just to raise the cutoff pressure, but he assured me that he could tune it up real good.... He also knew a guy that had a new 18g for sale.... and here I am.

I have Steve from Pullz-On Tuning helping me out. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks for posting the links.
Dave
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:56 PM   #13
BlazeRex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverdave View Post
I wouldn't have thought that the stock injectors could keep up at 21 psi. I'm not saying that they would if it were running properly. All I know is that it runs rich (<10.0:1) until it starts detonating at about 4000 rpm. It's dead rich at 4000 rpm, but I dont stay in it to see if it went lean at higher revs. I have never heard anything like a boosted engine pinging....

The intake is a STP from Subaru. I doubt that they would sell something that would require further modifications? The turbo back exhaust was from Xcelleration.com. When I installed these two items, the car started overboosting and cutting the fuel at WOT. I took it to my old tuner just to raise the cutoff pressure, but he assured me that he could tune it up real good.... He also knew a guy that had a new 18g for sale.... and here I am.

I have Steve from Pullz-On Tuning helping me out. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks for posting the links.
Dave
Steve's a great guy. I would recomend his e-tunes to anyone.

And from earlier, did I see 13.7:1 AFR at WOT?
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:36 PM   #14
Ziggyrama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quazimoto View Post
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1626520

Learning to tune is not going to happen overnight. Stock injectors on an 18G at 21psi is not a good idea. The biggest thing with learning how to tune modern OBDII EFI is being able to tell if you have a mechanical issue or a tuning issue. What is the specific brand intake on the car? You cannot just slap any old intake on an "open MAF" car an have it run right. If the inner diameter of the new intake is different than the old then that affects your fueling,especially openloop fueling which does not use O2 sensor feedback.
http://www.cobbtuning.com/Technical-...es-s/70677.htm
+1

Self tuning takes time and patience. OP, don't take this the wrong way but turning wrenches on an old school V8 is a bit different than working on a fuel injected modern engine with a fairly sophisticated engine management. The old school mentality of bolt-on exhaust and intake will not take you far, as you painfully found out. I am not assuming that you do not know your ways around the engines but the facts that you stated indicate that you need to come up to speed on these engines a bit before you attempt this again. Obviously, having years of experience in automotive area does help.

So, are you willing to put in the time and research the info?

My first advice, stop thinking in terms of boost. Think in terms of flow. It's all about the flow and boost drives flow. But, since we're talking about this, talking X psi as just a part of the story. What if I told you that ran 23psi on the stock WRX TD04 turbo and it didn't blow up? Boost number alone doesn't mean much. Remember, the boost map is a 3D map, so you need to think in those terms. 21psi may not be a bad thing, depending on other factors.

Second advice, study the stock map first. Do you understand how the ECU controls boost, fueling and timing? Do you know what all of the main maps do in those areas? You need to know this before you start messing around or you will have another expensive mistake.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:06 AM   #15
Ericomaha
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Hey man nice to see a subie in the 907 I stayed in Palmer for the longests right by wasilla. Of I come up this winter I'll help ya with a tune no prob.
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