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Old 04-10-2010, 01:13 AM   #1
dan az
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20g-xt, super slow

Default the 20g-xt thread

wanted to start a thread on the new 20gxt, so heres what ive got.

04 wrx wagon
2.5 block, je pistons, .057 cometic head gaskets
no tgv's
modified stock injectors
walbro 255
short ram intake
ported heads
bc valvetrain
ported and wrapped stock headers
catless turbo back
Turbo: tdo6-20g-xt 8cm hotside
Elevation: 5100 feet, atm 12.2
temp: 70
tunning is entirely done by me and dyno is romraider dyno and/or airboy

dont have a dyno saved yet, but up here on 15 psi waste gate pressure it put down 283hp at around 6000 and 267 tq at about 4050rpm (I forgot the exact rpm #'s, I didnt save the graph), just got the turbo last week so i have just started to tune for it, i can tell you it made alot more at 20 psi before i zeroed out the wastegate duty cycle.

Ill post graphs later on when i finish tunning it,
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:20 AM   #2
medamullet
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interested
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Old 04-19-2010, 06:46 PM   #3
medamullet
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where are these updates?
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Old 04-19-2010, 10:07 PM   #4
jstalford
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Interested
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:54 PM   #5
06HAWKMAN
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COME ON!!!! where are the graphs? someone else has to be running one of these beauties
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:36 PM   #6
nhat
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i got something for you guys. pretty sure this might be my next turbo but with a 10cm2 hotside.

taken from http://machvsti.blogspot.com/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach V Dan
We bolted the new Blouch 20G-XT turbocharger to our STI, and rolled it back onto the dyno for some more pulls. The turbo delivered as advertised. Spool was a little slower than the Tomei ARMS turbo we had on the car before, which is understandable given how much larger the turbine outlet is on the 20G-XT. The car made a lot more horsepower at the same boost levels -- 33 more hp and 30 lb-ft of additional torque to the wheels. An added benefit that isn't seen on the dyno graphs is that off-boost throttle response is better -- the more wide-open turbo outlet probably is the reason. The exhaust note is a bit louder now, too!

Most of the time when we put a 20G on a car we've also done a turbo induction hose, TGV deletes, and headers, none of which are on our car. When we do get those mods done, we'll dyno again. I'd expect another 10+ hp at that time.t
the tomei is a 7760. the 20g-xt has a 8cm2 hotside. i'll try to get dan to chime in with more details. from what i saw, the shop car has a tbe, fmic, and cobb ap v2 tune done by dan. not sure if there's anything else.

edit - found this:
Quote:
TurboXS front-mounted intercooler kit
TurboXS intake
Deatschwerks 850cc fuel injectors
TurboXS downpipe (catted)
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:50 PM   #7
FCmaniac
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I'm VERY interested in more 20G-XT results. I've been debating on this or a 2.5 XTR. I'm starting to lean toward the 8cm hotside over the 10cm.
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:54 PM   #8
Astartes
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Blouch doesn't have any prices listed yet for the 18g xt or 20g xt. What'd the 20g xt run for?
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:02 PM   #9
bign
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The Td06 20g in 7/8/10cm was special pricing at $1250 but I think it's over. You might have to call them or e-mail for the prices now.
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:28 PM   #10
sub06tr
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you do have to call...i just got TD06 18G-XT 8cm2 for 1100. havent put it in yet though
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Old 04-20-2010, 11:46 PM   #11
Astartes
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Default Re: the 20g-xt thread

Looks like I found my new turbo.

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk
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Old 04-21-2010, 12:24 AM   #12
nhat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sub06tr View Post
you do have to call...i just got TD06 18G-XT 8cm2 for 1100. havent put it in yet though
that's an incredible ****ing price
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:24 AM   #13
FCmaniac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhat View Post
that's an incredible ****ing price
no ****... if that's true then my decision's made
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:25 AM   #14
stidoc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhat View Post
i got something for you guys. pretty sure this might be my next turbo but with a 10cm2 hotside.

taken from http://machvsti.blogspot.com/




the tomei is a 7760. the 20g-xt has a 8cm2 hotside. i'll try to get dan to chime in with more details. from what i saw, the shop car has a tbe, fmic, and cobb ap v2 tune done by dan. not sure if there's anything else.

edit - found this:
Takes awhile to get rolling, particularly compared to this 20G with similar mods (non XT wheel):



And I doubt the EWG gives 400 rpm quicker spool.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:27 AM   #15
SWP sube
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i got my 20g XT for the intro price of 1250 =] havent put it on yet though.. still need my injectors
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:15 AM   #16
Astartes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stidoc View Post
Takes awhile to get rolling, particularly compared to this 20G with similar mods (non XT wheel):

And I doubt the EWG gives 400 rpm quicker spool.
7 or 8cm hotside on that one though?
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astartes View Post
7 or 8cm hotside on that one though?
Don't know, but it makes more power on a low reading dyno too.
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:26 PM   #18
trex616
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Also very different tunes. Chris probably tuned that as a street/road race car. Reliable and lots of low end power, fast spooling. Just how he does it. Thats not to say that he couldn't do the same thing with the OPs car.
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Old 04-21-2010, 02:35 PM   #19
stidoc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trex616 View Post
Also very different tunes. Chris probably tuned that as a street/road race car. Reliable and lots of low end power, fast spooling. Just how he does it. Thats not to say that he couldn't do the same thing with the OPs car.
I can't imagine wanting any other kind of tune for a street car with a 20g on pump gas, but yes, certainly could be in the tune.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:11 PM   #20
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There are plenty of people who desire aggressive tunes set up for peak power and nothing more. Drag racing.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stidoc View Post
And I doubt the EWG gives 400 rpm quicker spool.
Dynos with different loading will show different spool. Dynojets (first plot) typically show later spool than real-world due to how it's loading is. Other dynos have programmable loading, so can show artificially high or low spool characteristics.

For looking at spool within 1-200 RPM, you can't do that reliably from one dyno to another. To already have same car / same dyno 20G vs. 20G XT is pretty incredible given they've been in people's hands a few weeks tops.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:09 PM   #22
trex616
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Well I think thats what we are all waiting to see isnt it?
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trex616 View Post
Well I think thats what we are all waiting to see isnt it?
It's already posted. The Tomei ARMS 7760 is a 20G. You already have 20G vs. 20G XT. It's basically exactly how you would expect a dyno chart of this kind of thing to look. Slightly higher spool RPM, slightly higher power. The ARMS 7760 traditionally has very good spool for a 20G. So if the 20G XT 8cm is within spitting distance, it's doing pretty well.

The important bit is in the comments that the throttle response feels better. You don't see that kind of thing in a dyno chart. People like to think spool RPM equates to throttle response, but I don't really think it does.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:25 PM   #24
Mach V Dan
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Hi,

Yes, that's my graph and it's our shop car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trex616 View Post
Also very different tunes. Chris probably tuned that as a street/road race car. Reliable and lots of low end power, fast spooling. Just how he does it. Thats not to say that he couldn't do the same thing with the OPs car.
Turbo spool behavior can be SLIGHTLY influenced by fuel tuning and timing, but there's only so much you're going to do. It's the simple physics of a volume of hot gas spinning a turbine and its attached compressor. Spool varies very little due to tuning, and much more to do the size of the turbo, turbine outlet, exhaust system, and other hard parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stidoc View Post
I can't imagine wanting any other kind of tune for a street car with a 20g on pump gas...
Agreed. What, I'm gonna tune it to be laggy? I tune almost anything big to spool as fast as possible. I don't want to wait! The exception might be if there's too much compressor surge if the boost comes on too early. But that wasn't the case here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
Dynos with different loading will show different spool. Dynojets (first plot) typically show later spool than real-world due to how it's loading is. Other dynos have programmable loading, so can show artificially high or low spool characteristics.
Exactly right. You really can only compare spool on the same dyno, and IN THE SAME GEAR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
It's already posted. The Tomei ARMS 7760 is a 20G. You already have 20G vs. 20G XT. It's basically exactly how you would expect a dyno chart of this kind of thing to look. Slightly higher spool RPM, slightly higher power. The ARMS 7760 traditionally has very good spool for a 20G. So if the 20G XT 8cm is within spitting distance, it's doing pretty well.
I agree. The turbine outlet holes on the two turbos are really different in size.


Tomei 7760 at left, 20G-XT 8cm2 at right

I was a little surprised the spool difference was a narrow as it was.

Quote:
The important bit is in the comments that the throttle response feels better. You don't see that kind of thing in a dyno chart. People like to think spool RPM equates to throttle response, but I don't really think it does.
Correct. The new turbo gives sort of a "crisp" feeling to throttle tip in, which I am sure is due to the exhaust gasses' easier path out the that big turbine outlet.

My overall power on this car has been a little low, although almost all other 20G installs we've done have been accompanied by more mods -- TGV deletes, headers, turbo inlet pipe, sometimes external gates. Even still, my car seems to have more propensity to ping (or at least the ECU is interpreting the noise as pinging) at 5000+ rpm than some, and it makes me wonder if I've got a chunk of ring land rattling around in there somewhere. It is a 2008 model, after all.

--Dan
Mach V
FastWRX.com

Last edited by Mach V Dan; 04-21-2010 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:49 PM   #25
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^^^Thanks for the comments. Helps put things in perspective.
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