Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday July 12, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-06-2012, 08:21 PM   #1
Charlton
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 43038
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Franklin, Tennessee U.S.
Vehicle:
2002 Forester S
Black

Default Timing Belt Change on EJ25: What Will Be Fixed?

So I am talking to the wife tonight about the risk of a timing belt failure. It would cost much much more money to fix the engine after a broken timing belt. It would virtually total the vehicle.

What will a Subaru service department typically perform during a timing belt change? I figure if they are already in there they might want to replace the oil and water pump.

I do have a confirmed leaky head gasket but I can live with watching oil levels and there is a shroud under the oil pan to keep it from leaking on to the drive way.

What is the typical cost for timing belt change along with oil and water pump if necessary?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Charlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 09:17 PM   #2
cal_look_zero
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 294461
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Grass Pants, OR
Vehicle:
1997 Outback Sport
378hp/364tq

Default

Oil pumps rarely need to be changed, but a good tech will pull the bypass to make sure there's no burring on the valve that could cause an oil starve.

Some shops will belt slap and not change any pulleys or the tensioner, explicitly inform them that those parts are to be changed out with new OEM quality and you will be expecting proof. Make sure they use an OEM, Gates, or Mitsuboshi belt. OEM or GMB water pump.

Cost shouldn't be much, it's a job I could do in around an hour in my driveway; being that your car is SOHC.
cal_look_zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 11:29 PM   #3
J.Gibbs
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 312107
Join Date: Mar 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Sterling
Vehicle:
1998 LowFoz
Glacier White

Default

You probably want to do the headgaskets at the same time since they will have you take timing belt off again if you get that done later.

And yes the sohc engines are way easier to work on than the dohc, especially the phase 1's lol
J.Gibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 12:27 PM   #4
Counterfit
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124254
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Rhode Island
Vehicle:
2006 06 SGM Slowbaru
"The Scoobinator"

Default

There's really no need to do head gaskets with the timing belt unless they're leaking.
Counterfit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 12:29 PM   #5
J.Gibbs
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 312107
Join Date: Mar 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Sterling
Vehicle:
1998 LowFoz
Glacier White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Counterfit
There's really no need to do head gaskets with the timing belt unless they're leaking.
In his other posts he clearly states he has weeping head gaskets. Only trying to save him a few bucks. Get it done in one shot is my mentality
J.Gibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 12:30 PM   #6
Counterfit
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124254
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Rhode Island
Vehicle:
2006 06 SGM Slowbaru
"The Scoobinator"

Default

Well, my point stands then
Counterfit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 09:28 AM   #7
Bluefoton
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 141373
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Quebec, QC
Vehicle:
2008 2.5i-hatch -
now with a HID retrofit

Default

Leaky HGs might eventually lead to coolant loss and overheating. And it does save costs to do both.
Bluefoton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 12:05 PM   #8
02darkRS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 80918
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: ohio
Vehicle:
02-7 MBP RS/i hybrid
now w/ AVLS!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlton View Post
So I am talking to the wife tonight about the risk of a timing belt failure. It would cost much much more money to fix the engine after a broken timing belt. It would virtually total the vehicle.

What will a Subaru service department typically perform during a timing belt change? I figure if they are already in there they might want to replace the oil and water pump.

I do have a confirmed leaky head gasket but I can live with watching oil levels and there is a shroud under the oil pan to keep it from leaking on to the drive way.

What is the typical cost for timing belt change along with oil and water pump if necessary?
To answer the question: Timing Belt, Idlers ( 2 smooth & one toothed, called a cog roller), timing belt tensioner, water pump, thermostat, v-belts.

If you do any less, and something else starts to go soon, you'll be doing it all twice.

Since, your looking at saving money, do you have any mechanical abilities? If so, this is really an easy DIY. Save yourself a whole lot more this way. Search for the DIY to look over the tasks.

I believe I've seen threads mentioning $800-1300 for a dealer change?
02darkRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 02:33 PM   #9
Mishimoto
NASIOC Manufacturer
 
Member#: 207954
Join Date: Apr 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Gibbs View Post
In his other posts he clearly states he has weeping head gaskets. Only trying to save him a few bucks. Get it done in one shot is my mentality
I agree with this, being that the labor overlaps it would be wise to get both completed at the same time.
Mishimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 02:37 PM   #10
Charlton
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 43038
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Franklin, Tennessee U.S.
Vehicle:
2002 Forester S
Black

Default

I got the timing belt and all tensioners and idlers changed as well as the external belts.

Unless someone wants to loan me some $$$ the headgaskets will need to wait. There is some gunk under the engine but sitting overnight there was no oil on the driveway.

The Subaru techs said it was an external gasket leak and not internal.
Charlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 01:26 AM   #11
bugeyetex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 283815
Join Date: May 2011
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: San Antonio
Vehicle:
2003 psm wrx wagon
Built Fuji Tough

Default

Easy weekend job. Pull the motor, NO POINT in trying to do that much work with it in the car - your back will thank you. I am quick, but I can have an old 2.2 'on the ground' in about 30-45 minutes without breaking a sweat (figuratively speaking, I do live in south Texas...). If you were closer, I would love to help, I love the simplicity of the old sohc 2.2 motors. I really miss the old ea82's. Find someone local who knows that Subarus aren't made in Austrailia and give them some money and beer to help you out. It is an intimidating job for a dyi, but if you follow the instructions, there isn't much to go wrong.
bugeyetex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 08:33 PM   #12
Jimdew
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 328640
Join Date: Aug 2012
Default Timing belt

I just recently had my timing belt, water pump, thermostat, all idlers, tensioner, and front drive belts replaced.

I kind of bought some stuff at different times, but I think I had about $320 in parts. The only genuine Subaru part was the thermostat, as I had read about problems with the non OEM.

I got it installed for another $250. I felt it was worth saving my aching back, and I had the money set aside anyway.

I didn't have the oil pump checked, but never thought them to be problematic.

1998 legacy 2.2 4eat. now at 160k.

Bought the water pump, timing belt, tensioner, and idlers on ebay from Mizumo. I was very pleased with their customer service. (I'm not endorsing, just describing my experience) Others came from parts store or dealer.
Jimdew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 09:30 PM   #13
Charlton
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 43038
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Franklin, Tennessee U.S.
Vehicle:
2002 Forester S
Black

Default

I don't have the tools to attempt such a project lol
Charlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 05:18 PM   #14
neko
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 46500
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Idaho
Vehicle:
'04 FXT & '98 L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlton View Post
I don't have the tools to attempt such a project lol
The price difference between doing it yourself and having a dealer do it? You could buy lots of new shiny tools (and should). It only takes a basic ratchet&wrench kit plus a torque wrench and breaker bar from harbor freight for cheap. Call it labor cost.
Dealer cost on a t-belt/water pump change is still around $8-900 or more. Your cost? $250 max?
Spec change interval is 105k. Get it done, there are interference motors, and the amount of motor work after breaking a timing belt is far more (you were correct in your logic.)

You need: Gates Timing belt/pulleys/tension/water pump kit. TCK307WP part number, its like $200 shpd from rockauto, if that. Plus a new thermostat+seal (use a good brand, not a cheapo Stant/etc, or just spring for an oem Subaru one), and some coolant (2gal, 50/50. just buy one and split/mix). Oil pump isn't a regular maintenance item for these motors, i wouldn't worry about replacing it if you're tight on cash (or even if you weren't).

The instructions are pretty clear on these kits, but even so, just read over a walk-through like this one:
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t154...ge-w-pics.html

Worst case scenario, if you really don't wana buy tools and do this at your place, find a nice local Suby owner that will help ya out with this for a small fee or food, etc, that has done it before several times. Its not a difficult change, or even a long one, just feels daunting your first time...

Last edited by neko; 08-14-2012 at 05:26 PM.
neko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 10:53 PM   #15
Eyedoc Orlando
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 146216
Join Date: Apr 2007
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Birmingham, AL
Vehicle:
2007 Impreza 2.5i SE
Newport Blue Metallic

Default

OEM Parts + Labor at the dealer or a reputable shop around here is $900-1000 total.

All the parts listed above are correct.

I have been warned by a few to stay away from the gates kit if I plan to keep the car long than 30-50k after the service. Supposedly it has idler issues that the OEM doesn't. I know there's controversy here but it's something you do very seldom, so you may want to fork over the extra for the OEM.

If your headgaskets weep but don't have coolant leaking/dripping on the ground I would simply do coolant exchanges every 30K per the manual plus add the leak stop additive from the dealer. It should allow you to go quite a while
Eyedoc Orlando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 10:58 PM   #16
J.Gibbs
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 312107
Join Date: Mar 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Sterling
Vehicle:
1998 LowFoz
Glacier White

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyedoc Orlando
If your headgaskets weep but don't have coolant leaking/dripping on the ground I would simply do coolant exchanges every 30K per the manual plus add the leak stop additive from the dealer. It should allow you to go quite a while
Umm no!!!! The oil weeping from the bottom of the head is a sign they need to be done. Like stated, these engines rarely mix oil and coolant when the head gaskets go. Only place coolant is lost is into the cylinders.

Would you like to fix the headgaskets for cheap or pay out for a new engine because of the internal failure?
J.Gibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 11:19 PM   #17
Charlton
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 43038
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Franklin, Tennessee U.S.
Vehicle:
2002 Forester S
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Gibbs View Post
Umm no!!!! The oil weeping from the bottom of the head is a sign they need to be done. Like stated, these engines rarely mix oil and coolant when the head gaskets go. Only place coolant is lost is into the cylinders.

Would you like to fix the headgaskets for cheap or pay out for a new engine because of the internal failure?
Roll the dice I guess until I get some $$$

I got a number of a guy locally that is supposed to be good with Foresters that might do it on the side.
Charlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 11:30 PM   #18
J.Gibbs
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 312107
Join Date: Mar 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Sterling
Vehicle:
1998 LowFoz
Glacier White

Default

Theres gotta be someone in nasioc in your area that will do it for dirt cheap or beer and food. If you were in new England id do it for you
J.Gibbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 11:37 PM   #19
Charlton
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 43038
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Franklin, Tennessee U.S.
Vehicle:
2002 Forester S
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Gibbs
Theres gotta be someone in nasioc in your area that will do it for dirt cheap or beer and food. If you were in new England id do it for you
Actually someone on www.subaruforester.org sent me a lead on a guy in the Nashville area that is supposed to be really good on Subarus and will quote "Do damn near anything on the side" lol

I don't have any oil leaking in the driveway, no coolant loss nor oil loss. The car has 153000 miles so maybe I'm one of the 70% percent that don't have problems with the head gaskets.
Charlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2012, 04:04 PM   #20
cmiovino
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 134005
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Premium
PSM

Default

I have two done at the dealer in the past. They spin the pulleys. If they don't make noise, they don't change them. For the extra $$$, I suggest getting them changed or taking it somewhere else.
cmiovino is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.