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Old 08-09-2012, 06:38 PM   #1
IAG Performance
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Default Issues with Dual AVCS Aftermarket Cams (Database for recent problems found)

Hello All,

We are not quite yet ready to release any findings yet, but if you have purchased or installed any aftermarket cams in the last few months on a dual AVCS application, please keep posted to this thread or PM us for details.

Regards,

J.J. Jabaji
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:27 PM   #2
SlowboyNRS
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Thanks for the heads up JJ! We will be taking a close look at two recent builds!

Nate
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Old 08-10-2012, 01:56 AM   #3
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What kind of issues are we talking about? We just installed a set of Kelford C's in an 08 STi in place of a set of Kelford B's. Anything in particular you want to know?

Dewey @ Six Star
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Old 08-10-2012, 11:44 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_DeWeY View Post
What kind of issues are we talking about? We just installed a set of Kelford C's in an 08 STi in place of a set of Kelford B's. Anything in particular you want to know?

Dewey @ Six Star
Sending you a PM now.
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Old 08-10-2012, 05:05 PM   #5
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We've done a couple sets of 220-Cs lately.
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:43 PM   #6
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I am sure many of you are wondering what the heck this thread it about. Some of you have either PMed us or emailed us and we have given you limited information. Let me start by saying that there are two manufacturers camshafts that we know are in question. Cosworth and Kelford. We build roughly two to three engines per week and use these parts all the time. We have been happy with both manufacturers’ products and customer service in the past. Both companies have assured us that we are the only company to receive these defective parts.

On to the story: We built an engine for a customer’s 2012 STI using Cosworth cams a few weeks ago. After delivery and during break in, the customer started to have chronic misfire codes. He lived a few hours away so we discussed him bringing it down at his convenience. Almost immediately following this build, we built another engine for a customer’s 2008 STI also using Cosworth cams. I drove this car home to put the initial miles on it and knew something wasn't quite right. While driving it, I started looking through various things with our Subaru Select Monitor and realized that Exhaust AVCS timing was pretty much stuck at 45 degrees retard. Normally, these cars rest at 0-5 degrees at idle and rise to about 10 as you accelerate. We spent some time trying to figure out what was going on, checking the solenoid, the cam gears, the control circuit, cam timing, position of the windows on the cams for the sensor, and so on. We then decided to call Cosworth to ask them if they have seen any issues. We were told at that time that they have not seen any problems but they would have their engineers look into it. After two days of waiting, our engine builder had a theory and decided to look into it himself.......
What we found was that the last batch of Cosworth and Kelford cams we received, had an error in one of the manufacturing process. We started by looking at the factory cams and comparing to the pictures of the Cosworth cams we installed on the two builds. We immediately noticed that the oil passages in the exhaust cams were being incorrectly drilled. We then pulled Kelford cams that we received a month ago, and they were correct compared to stock. Finally, we checked the batch of Kelfords that we received that week and we were surprised to find that they too were incorrectly manufactured. Below is what we found:




You will notice that on both the "old Kelford M1" and the OEM cam that the oil passage at 1 o’clock goes to the front groove in the cam. The oil passage at 11 o’clock goes to the rear groove on the cam. This allows the oil to travel to the correct position in the cam gear when the AVCS solenoid is activated. If you look at the "new Kelford M2" cams, you will notice that the oil passages are reversed. When oil is sent to the incorrect passage, the cam gear swings to the full retard position. This obviously causes quite a few problems. So now that we have identified the problem, we turned to both Cosworth and Kelford for help. Both companies told us that they purchase the billets from the same source and that this step in the manufacturing is done by the supplier prior to them receiving them. Both companies also have told us that they only pull a percentage out of a batch to QC them. Clearly, we were pretty unlucky to have received the same incorrectly manufactured cams from two different companies.
After discussing the issues with both companies, we were told by both that replacements would be sent to us. That was an acceptable solution for Kelford but the problem was the Cosworth cams were already installed in two engines. As you all are aware, it is pretty labor intensive to have to change the cams out and is best done with the engine removed from the car. While we waited for the Cosworth engineers to try and come up with a solution, I had a revelation.............

The problem was that oil was being sent to the wrong passages. So the only way to fix it was to change where the oil went. This couldn't be done in the head, it couldn't be done in the cam, and because of the spring loaded design, it couldn't be done in the cam gear either...... What I came up with was to re-direct the oil flow in the AVCS manifold that is bolted to the head. Thankfully, we have a very tallented staff here at IAG as well as an in house CNC mill. With these two components, we were able to design, draw, and machine a solution in a matter of 8 hours.


Below you will see a factory OEM AVCS manifold and a baller billet version. Well we didn't CNC a billet version because we thought it looked cool..... At this angle, the will look almost identical.


The "magic" happens on the side of the part. You will notice, we have redirected the oil inside the manifold so that it reverses before the cyilinder head, cams or gears.



Of course in typical Subaru fashion, the right and left sides are totally different so both had to be drawn and CNC'ed for this to work. You will notice the left and right sides look totally different from each other.





We have installed the new AVCS manifolds on the first car and they work perfectly. We are very happy about not having to pull the engines in two cars. More importantly we are happy to have a solution for anyone that has already installed cams and has this issue. If you have purchased cams in the last 60 days, I would urge you to either check Exhaust AVCS if they have been installed, or physically check the cams if they are still out of the engine. If anyone has questions about this, feel free to reach out to us. We are here to help the community and are committed to both helping the end users and the manufacturer through this problem. Both Cosworth and Kelford have been very good about helping us through this and I believe they were just as frustrated about this error as we were. It is nice to work with quality companies that stand behind their products.

Regards,

J.J. Jabaji
IAG Performance

Last edited by IAG Performance; 08-17-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:51 PM   #7
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Very informative! Any word if there are any other manufactures with the same supply or similar issues?
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Old 08-17-2012, 06:15 PM   #8
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AWESOME WORK IAG! I love the billet haha
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:18 PM   #9
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Great job identifying and an even greater job coming up with a solution for the issue. This is one of many reasons IAG is the only shop That will work on my car. <3
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Old 08-18-2012, 01:09 AM   #10
jordanretro1223
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IAG FTW!!! Only shop that will ever touch my car.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:39 AM   #11
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Good to know.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:03 AM   #12
RacePartsGuy
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That is IMPRESSIVE !!!! Great work JJ and co.

RPG
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:11 PM   #13
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how far back are you talking about when it comes to the defective cams?

I believe I purchased my kelfords back in august/september of 2011?

Last edited by baseballdbk1; 08-21-2012 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:44 PM   #14
sidewayz
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Amazing work guys. Would have never have thought of doing that!

Ryan
Area1320
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:46 PM   #15
lieutenantcolumbo
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Glad they built my motor....even more glad I have single AVCS

Keep up the good work guys!
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:05 PM   #16
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I am engine builder and have 3 sets of cams in 07 sti single avcs with inverted triggers that are out from oem, all cams are in engine and reading the ecu with cams on the stoppers, they are reading +9 on one cam, other engine is +5, 1 engine i have apart and checked the cams, and you can see by eye the triggers are out 5-10degs, the engine i dialed in the cams to there specs, using crawfords offset idlers, yet the triggers are not lined up with lobes as per oem, so ecu thinks it is already adavanced. The big issue is the ecu needs to see them both come back to zero before it will let them advance, 2 sets are cosy, 1 set is kelfords, these have been over the last 6 months.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:15 PM   #17
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We just started a new build and we have the same issues. I talked to IAG and we'll be getting a set of these as soon as they can make them. Thanks guys!

It does sound pretty badass with the exhaust cams at 45-47 degrees at idle...
http://innovativetuningdl.com/images...2/IMG_7160.MOV
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:39 PM   #18
Innovative Tuning
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IAG parts installed. Total time about 30 minutes being careful to clean surfaces etc.

Started up. Exhaust cams at 2 degrees for a few minutes with cold engine and high oil pressure, then 0 at idle which is normal (not 45-47).

I revved the engine once it was warm and the exhaust cams moved normally.

Thank you IAG for putting this together. 30 minutes sure beats around 30 hours of work.
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Old 10-07-2012, 06:11 PM   #19
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nice! here i was just researching dual avcs and I stumbled on this thread. i thought it was gonna be a long, drawn out thing where nobody had a real resolution.

...and then i scroll down a little bit and baddaboom baddabing someones whipped up an effective solution with a CNC machine. nice work!

carry on...
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:56 PM   #20
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Interesting.. We just fired up my newly assembled 08 STI build with new Cosworth cams (purchase mid last year), and both Intake cams will not advance.. They float in the 5-11 degree range, but never zero thus do not advance.

So, I suspect I may have intake cams with the same issue mentioned above.


Is it possible to purchase those machined replacement solenoid housings?

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:16 PM   #21
MSR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponaugle View Post
Interesting.. We just fired up my newly assembled 08 STI build with new Cosworth cams (purchase mid last year), and both Intake cams will not advance.. They float in the 5-11 degree range, but never zero thus do not advance.

So, I suspect I may have intake cams with the same issue mentioned above.


Is it possible to purchase those machined replacement solenoid housings?

Cheers,

Jeff Sponaugle

Your issues is not hole drilling, the issue is the trigger slots are not in the right spot, cosy know of the issue, will replace and give you a credit for the issues to fix, but from what i have heard cosy USA shut the doors and is no more???
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:29 PM   #22
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wait? cosworth usa closed??? when did that happen?

wasn't eric hsu working there?

Matt
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:29 PM   #23
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double post

Last edited by Matty_STi; 02-06-2013 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:15 PM   #24
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Well that is what i am told, so kiss my credit good by!
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSR View Post
Your issues is not hole drilling, the issue is the trigger slots are not in the right spot, cosy know of the issue, will replace and give you a credit for the issues to fix, but from what i have heard cosy USA shut the doors and is no more???
It's rumor and I haven't heard it verified. I was talking with their marketing VP earlier last week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty_STi View Post
wait? cosworth usa closed??? when did that happen?

wasn't eric hsu working there?

Matt
Eric and bunch of guys turned over this past year at the Torrance location (they have their race electronics work out of Indianapolis), hence some experienced issues with customer support.


...or so goes what I know.
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