Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday July 12, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-14-2014, 01:35 PM   #1
P&L Motorsports Inc.
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 67199
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
07 8.99@160mph STI
8.3@165mph RecordHolder

Default FA20t Action. 2015 WRX Baseline!

We're happy to announce that P&L has just picked up a beautiful Crystal White Pearl 2015 WRX with the new FA20 turbo engine! We are very excited to start prototyping our turbo kit and other assorted parts for the new platform in the very near future!




We've already completed a baseline dyno run on it so far, and the car seems to be making great power even in stock form. If it's anything like the FA20 in the BRZ/FRS, we're thinking it's going to be a great improvement over the outgoing EJ series engines.

The 2015 has fantastic handling from the factory, much better than the previous model years. Large anti-sway bars, chassis bracing, and beefier springs/struts make this an incredibly well handling car. With such a strong platform to build upon, we can't wait to see it making some big power!






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP8SkUGZ60k

YouTube Link Above to the Dyno Pull!


Event: Dyno Pull
Location: P&L Motorsports - Franklin Park, IL
Ambient Temp: 62deg F
Elevation: ~600 ft
Weather: sunny
Track and Conditions: N/A
Tires: N/A

Car: 2015 WRX
Tuner: N/A
Dyno Info: Dynojet
Transmission: Factory 6 Speed
Gear: 3rd
Peak HP at RPM: 243 @ 5300 RPM - STD CF
Peak Torque at RPM: 245 @ 4900 RPM - STD CF
Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: N/A
Target Boost: N/A
Target AFR: N/A
Fuel: 93 oct
Engine/Power Modifications: N/A
Driveline Modifications: N/A
Suspension Modifications: N/A
Other Modifications: N/A




Dyno testing with P&L Motorsports catted 3" turbo back exhaust. No other modifications.

More info for P&L 2015+ WRX Downpipe: http://pandlmotorsports.com/shop/pl-...-wrx-downpipe/

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by P&L Motorsports Inc.; 06-24-2014 at 11:17 AM.
P&L Motorsports Inc. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 01:55 PM   #2
mtskibum16
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 83708
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Bremerton, WA
Vehicle:
2005 FXT
CGM

Default

Finally a dyno pull that resembles Subaru's torque claims. It will be interesting to watch this platform develop!
mtskibum16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 01:56 PM   #3
st205wrx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 193253
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Niles
Vehicle:
08 wrx 322/352
wrb

Default

Can't wait for the performance product to come out
st205wrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 02:14 PM   #4
MaddMax
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9264
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City
Vehicle:
2012 WRX 5dr
Ice Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtskibum16 View Post
Finally a dyno pull that resembles Subaru's torque claims. It will be interesting to watch this platform develop!
It still doesn't come close to Subaru's claim of full torque by 2000rpms, but it is a little better than what we've seen previously.

I'd be curious to know what stock EJ25's have done on this dyno in 3rd gear.
MaddMax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 02:14 PM   #5
Back Road Runner
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60082
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2004 Forester STI
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtskibum16 View Post
Finally a dyno pull that resembles Subaru's torque claims. It will be interesting to watch this platform develop!
That's what I was thinking. Although, it looks like they should start the pull at a lower rpm. If this car can do full torque at 2000 rpm, you almost need to start right from idle (almost).
Back Road Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 02:21 PM   #6
Boxer112
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 78751
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Manama, Bahrain (from NY)
Vehicle:
2015 WRX STi
Crystal White Pearl

Default

Yeaaaaaaa. Start the modding...
Boxer112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2014, 03:24 PM   #7
st205wrx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 193253
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Niles
Vehicle:
08 wrx 322/352
wrb

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer112 View Post
Yeaaaaaaa. Start the modding...
Source the brz turbo manifold set up and then open source tune can't wait for them To do something of that nature.
st205wrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 12:38 PM   #8
mtskibum16
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 83708
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Bremerton, WA
Vehicle:
2005 FXT
CGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMax View Post
It still doesn't come close to Subaru's claim of full torque by 2000rpms, but it is a little better than what we've seen previously.

I'd be curious to know what stock EJ25's have done on this dyno in 3rd gear.
Well it would be impressive if it did considering the pull wasn't started until after 2000rpm. I have a feeling that early spool is going to be difficult to achieve on the dyno, but my guess is it will be there on the street.
mtskibum16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 12:48 PM   #9
P&L Motorsports Inc.
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 67199
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
07 8.99@160mph STI
8.3@165mph RecordHolder

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by st205wrx View Post
Source the brz turbo manifold set up and then open source tune can't wait for them To do something of that nature.
We'll be testing both an upper and lower mount system, and offering whichever works and fits the best. Really excited to start digging into this car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtskibum16 View Post
Well it would be impressive if it did considering the pull wasn't started until after 2000rpm. I have a feeling that early spool is going to be difficult to achieve on the dyno, but my guess is it will be there on the street.
If we have some free time coming up here, I'll see if we can test what spool is like just off idle. I have a sneaking suspicion it won't change much from what we've seen so far though.

-Ty
P&L Motorsports Inc. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 12:49 PM   #10
blehhh
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 316517
Join Date: Apr 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Portland, ME
Vehicle:
2012 WRB WRX Hatch
TP Stage III & ELH

Default

AFAIK, you'll never see the true torque curve on a dyno vs the street; the resistance/load is different, which affects the boost pressure during spool, so you hit peak boost at a different rpm on the dyno vs the street.
blehhh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 02:15 PM   #11
thuanvinhny
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 288935
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ohio
Default

What is with all the high read number ? Isnt that like 9-10% drive train losses only ? It can not be...a WRX is pumping out 240+ awhp ? I refuse to believe. I have seen STI pumping 270+ awhp ?

Is it that Subaru is under rating their engine ?

Thanks for the dyno info, and graph. Can not wait for more
thuanvinhny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 02:49 PM   #12
Back Road Runner
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60082
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2004 Forester STI
Silver

Default

Well there is a distinct benefit to having the torque so low. The hp is also very low still meaning the actual ability to spin up the rollers is still very slow.
Back Road Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 03:26 PM   #13
ToneWrx02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 239095
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Goteborg, Sweden
Vehicle:
2002 Wrx
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P&L Motorsports Inc. View Post

We'll be testing both an upper and lower mount system, and offering whichever works and fits the best. Really excited to start digging into this car.

If we have some free time coming up here, I'll see if we can test what spool is like just off idle. I have a sneaking suspicion it won't change much from what we've seen so far though.

-Ty
Not trying to offend you at all or call you stupid but i see no way how a upper mounted turbo woulf be better. Unless you are going for a huge turbo that cant fit where its at now then i see no reasom to switch to upper mount.

Lower mount will provide faster spool in everyway.

Lower mount is overall better. Turbo lag
ToneWrx02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 03:46 PM   #14
P&L Motorsports Inc.
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 67199
Join Date: Jul 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:
07 8.99@160mph STI
8.3@165mph RecordHolder

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneWrx02 View Post
Not trying to offend you at all or call you stupid but i see no way how a upper mounted turbo woulf be better. Unless you are going for a huge turbo that cant fit where its at now then i see no reasom to switch to upper mount.

Lower mount will provide faster spool in everyway.

Lower mount is overall better. Turbo lag
No offense taken. Like I said, fitment is definitely a concern as well as the added complexity of an oil return system for a turbo at the same level as the oil pan. There is also the concern of water and road debris contacting the turbo and potentially causing damage.

-Ty
P&L Motorsports Inc. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 04:14 PM   #15
tomt5078
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 84619
Join Date: Apr 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ
Silver

Default

Nice........Can't wait to see the progress, as I've been watch since you picked this thing up!!!!!
tomt5078 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 04:37 PM   #16
BroBroBroBroBro
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 338211
Join Date: Nov 2012
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Pemeal Bacon
Vehicle:
2011 wrx ewg
equal headers+frontmount

Default

i wanna see a 20g on it
BroBroBroBroBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 06:04 AM   #17
ToneWrx02
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 239095
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Goteborg, Sweden
Vehicle:
2002 Wrx
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P&L Motorsports Inc. View Post

No offense taken. Like I said, fitment is definitely a concern as well as the added complexity of an oil return system for a turbo at the same level as the oil pan. There is also the concern of water and road debris contacting the turbo and potentially causing damage.

-Ty
Ive seen many corvettes with a turbo mounted really low. No issues there.
ToneWrx02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 06:10 PM   #18
jawwadh
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 100594
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: chicago
Vehicle:
2008 BMW M3

Default

240 whp? That equates to more like 285 crank hp given 20% drive train loss?
jawwadh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 06:34 PM   #19
blehhh
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 316517
Join Date: Apr 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Portland, ME
Vehicle:
2012 WRB WRX Hatch
TP Stage III & ELH

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jawwadh View Post
240 whp? That equates to more like 285 crank hp given 20% drive train loss?


240whp with 20% drivetrain loss would mean 300 at the crank.

(I'm assuming you're mistakenly taking 240 x 1.2 instead of 240/(1-0.2) )


Either way, it's worth remembering that the WRX has always had less drivetrain loss than the STI, with both putting down similar power to the wheels, stock for stock (see cobb dyno database). I'm sure that can play into this here again.
blehhh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 07:20 PM   #20
jawwadh
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 100594
Join Date: Nov 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: chicago
Vehicle:
2008 BMW M3

Default

I was underestimating .. I think loss with these modern cars is more like 18%.. 300 HP seems too much for a wrx. The wrx is gonna cannabalize sti sales
jawwadh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2014, 10:24 PM   #21
st205wrx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 193253
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Niles
Vehicle:
08 wrx 322/352
wrb

Default

Maybe Subaru is trying to be like several European companies and are under rating their engine hp claims.
st205wrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 12:43 AM   #22
Breezio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 234357
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Forest Grove, OR
Vehicle:
2009 WRX
Sportwagen zum einbauen!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by st205wrx View Post
Maybe Subaru is trying to be like several European companies and are under rating their engine hp claims.
They have been doing that since '09 at minimum.

My '09 and others have put down nearly identical HP numbers as GR STi's on the same dyno.

Back to topic. What a great looking dyno pull! (IMO) That is an impressively huge powerband.
Essentially max TQ from 2700rpm to 5300rpm.
I'm impressed.
Breezio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 01:35 AM   #23
rexblake
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 178426
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: FoCo
Vehicle:
2010 Audi S4
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by st205wrx View Post
Maybe Subaru is trying to be like several European companies and are under rating their engine hp claims.
They aren't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezio View Post
They have been doing that since '09 at minimum.

My '09 and others have put down nearly identical HP numbers as GR STi's on the same dyno.

Back to topic. What a great looking dyno pull! (IMO) That is an impressively huge powerband.
Essentially max TQ from 2700rpm to 5300rpm.
I'm impressed.
Ugh, I don't understand this philosophy. You realize the STI and the wrx have a different drivetrain right? One drivetrain seems to have more loss, which makes logical sense since one is beefier.

Until the Subarus are putting down crazy numbers on the dyno (aka, equaling chp) or pulling crazy times at the strip, you can't say they are understating their engine hp ratings.

On a more logical though process, P and L's dyno puts out the higher range of whp. You can see that on all of their dynos in ppb. Take a minute, do some searching. It's not a good or a bad thing, it's just what it reads. From what I can tell, they do great work and have built some seriously fast Subarus, including a record holder or two if I'm not mistaken.
rexblake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 09:05 AM   #24
JohnB35711
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 241617
Join Date: Mar 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
They aren't.




Ugh, I don't understand this philosophy. You realize the STI and the wrx have a different drivetrain right? One drivetrain seems to have more loss, which makes logical sense since one is beefier.

Until the Subarus are putting down crazy numbers on the dyno (aka, equaling chp) or pulling crazy times at the strip, you can't say they are understating their engine hp ratings.

On a more logical though process, P and L's dyno puts out the higher range of whp. You can see that on all of their dynos in ppb. Take a minute, do some searching. It's not a good or a bad thing, it's just what it reads. From what I can tell, they do great work and have built some seriously fast Subarus, including a record holder or two if I'm not mistaken.
It's a well accepted fact that the 09 to 14 WRX is underrated at 265hp.
JohnB35711 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2014, 10:29 AM   #25
Breezio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 234357
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Forest Grove, OR
Vehicle:
2009 WRX
Sportwagen zum einbauen!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
They aren't.
Yes they are. And to think you say I need to do some searching...



Quote:
Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
Ugh, I don't understand this philosophy. You realize the STI and the wrx have a different drivetrain right? One drivetrain seems to have more loss, which makes logical sense since one is beefier.

Until the Subarus are putting down crazy numbers on the dyno (aka, equaling chp) or pulling crazy times at the strip, you can't say they are understating their engine hp ratings.

On a more logical though process, P and L's dyno puts out the higher range of whp. You can see that on all of their dynos in ppb. Take a minute, do some searching. It's not a good or a bad thing, it's just what it reads. From what I can tell, they do great work and have built some seriously fast Subarus, including a record holder or two if I'm not mistaken.
I'm sorry sir, but you quite frankly don't know what you are talking about.

Yes the STi has a bit more drivetrain loss. However, when on the EXACT same dyno using the exact same calibration a GR STi puts down ~240whp and a VF52 powered WRX puts down ~240whp that shows that the crank HP for the WRX is nearly as much (though, yes, slightly less) then the STi.
When you look at all the data out there a stock '09-'14 WRX is probably around 290-295 crank HP, whatever it exactly is, it's well over the Subaru rated 265BHP.

You wish to bring up drag strip performance? Are you not aware the '09+ WRX often pulls an equal or faster time in the 1/4mile to the GR STi?
Obviously there are many factors to this.. a little less weight, a little less drivetrain loss, better gearing with the 5-speed and nearly as much engine power.

About P&L's dyno. I don't need to do any searching involving it because I wasn't commenting on the numbers it puts out. The only thing I mentioned in directly relation to their dyno was the length of the TQ peak/curve. Which has nothing to do with the specific TQ number it showed.
Breezio is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.