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Old 09-03-2002, 02:48 PM   #1
maugustine
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Default Knock signal at idle with Delta Dash

I just got the ECUTek Delta Dash system hooked up to my car and have noticed an interesting trend with the knock signal. It is almost never active when accelerating or driving at speed, but it does sometimes register while sitting still and idling. It also registers infrequently while decelerating in gear with light to zero throttle. Is this normal, or is my knock sensor or engine somehow screwed up? I can post graphs or data logs if anyone is interested.
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Old 09-03-2002, 03:04 PM   #2
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From other graphs I've seen on Delta dash...knock never shoes up

Now knock correction value might be another matter. This would be measured in degrees

make sure which one your looking at
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Old 09-03-2002, 03:23 PM   #3
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I am sure that it is the knock signal (on/off) and not knock correction. BTW, my car is bone stock.
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Old 09-03-2002, 03:48 PM   #4
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In the analog data section there is a value for Knock Correction, in degrees. Any value above zero would indicate that some knock has been detected.
In the digital data section there is also an on/off item for Knock Signal. Presumably On would indicate knock detected, Off would indicate no knock detected.
If you do datalogging that includes these items you can go back and see exactly when knock was detected and how much timing correction was applied.
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Old 09-03-2002, 04:22 PM   #5
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I too have found knock at idle, as well as many others delta dash users. I'm sure there is nothing really wrong with our cars. I bet every wrx suffers from this problem.

Last edited by codean; 09-03-2002 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 09-03-2002, 04:37 PM   #6
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The thing to look at would be when the actual knock correction is being applied. The knock sensor is tuned to pick up certain sound frequencies that would indicate knock, and it may produce some positive readings when there wouldn't possibly be any knock present such as idle and coasting. Presumably the ECU knows this and only looks for knock under certain conditions.
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Old 09-04-2002, 06:45 PM   #7
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Thanks for the responses. I did a few more runs, and knock correction is at 0 for all of the events at idle. So I guess that the ECU is indeed ignoring these events. Does anyone know why the knock sensor is (inaccurately) detecting knock under these conditions?
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Old 09-04-2002, 06:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by mulder
The thing to look at would be when the actual knock correction is being applied. The knock sensor is tuned to pick up certain sound frequencies that would indicate knock, and it may produce some positive readings when there wouldn't possibly be any knock present such as idle and coasting. Presumably the ECU knows this and only looks for knock under certain conditions.
If you can look at the raw value the sensor sends back to the ecu ... then you can see how noise goes up and down. Its really cool to watch and determine if you have knocked or not.

One of the best things about the Link. You see the raw value of the knock sensor. not just some stupid flag ... oh yeah ... i detected something ... not gonna tell you how much or how its relitive to other values.
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Old 09-04-2002, 07:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Does anyone know why the knock sensor is (inaccurately) detecting knock under these conditions?
As I said the sensor detects sound, or vibration, at particular frequencies that are consistent with knock. The ECU then determines whether knock is actually present or not. The sensor will detect some vibration due to normal engine operation but the ECU will ignore it unless it occurs during the "window" of a combustion event under load.
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Old 09-04-2002, 08:52 PM   #10
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edit: double post
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Old 09-04-2002, 08:54 PM   #11
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Do a search on it. I brought this up a couple months ago. As more logging was compiled and as I tested more cars, all WRX's I tested (a dozen or so) detect the occasional knock @ idle~1500 RPM. Some are worse then others. The bottom line is, the ECU doesn't care about knock at idle. It ignores it. Think about it, you are in closed loop anywho, so the ECU has timing jacked up pretty high It's open loop timing curve is unchanged.

Ryan
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Old 09-04-2002, 09:43 PM   #12
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I saw this question posted elsewhere, with noone answering.

Does the UTEC eliminate the need to have the Delta Dash? I do not want to buy the ECUTek, only to find that all or most of the functions it has are also provided by the UTEC (which will be purchased at a later date).

Andy
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Old 09-04-2002, 10:16 PM   #13
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I'd say that would be an apples-and-oranges situation since the UTEC is an engine management device and the DD is a data reader/logger. They should actually complement one another although some of the ECU data will be altered by the presence of the UTEC so may need to be interpreted differently.
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Old 09-05-2002, 03:13 AM   #14
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ive never see the knock signal go off in all my delta dash logging, including idle.
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Old 09-05-2002, 11:04 AM   #15
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mulder...I understand that they're different products, designed for totally different purposes. What I'm asking about, is how much datalogging is available through the UTEC? If the UTEC will allow you to datalog let's say 90% of what the Delta Dash allows, I would save the 330+ dollars, and do the logging through the UTEC. Why have 2 devices that can datalog? I could use the money-saved towards some other go-fast goodie!
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Old 09-05-2002, 11:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by andygold
mulder...I understand that they're different products, designed for totally different purposes. What I'm asking about, is how much datalogging is available through the UTEC? If the UTEC will allow you to datalog let's say 90% of what the Delta Dash allows, I would save the 330+ dollars, and do the logging through the UTEC. Why have 2 devices that can datalog? I could use the money-saved towards some other go-fast goodie!
One of the big reasons I'm keeping Delta Dash is for the ability to read/clear codes. Utec currently has no means to read CEL's or reset the ECU (No real need to reset anymore though). Delta Dash will also allow you to monitor/log all sensors whereas Utec only does the "important" ones. The way Delta Dash reads/graphs the data is also very nice. The Utec currently only spit raw data out. This text data can be imported into Excel or whatever and graphed, however I'm not that MS office savvy. I'm sure a template could be generated pretty easily for someone with the means to do so. BTW, Delta Dash will allow you to pick and choose what you want to monitor whereas the Utec always logs everything. If you don't screen capture that data though then it's gone.

Ryan
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Old 09-05-2002, 11:34 AM   #17
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I'd say that's a pretty comprehensive answer
The DD isn't the best option for reading and clearing codes although it does do this. I also have an AutoXray unit which is standalone so I can keep it in the car all the time, in case I get a CEL or someone else at a meet needs one checked. I'm not going to leave my laptop in the trunk.
Also the AutoXray reads the freeze frame data which the DD does not, and it also can do some other OBDII stuff, i.e. readiness/02 tests etc. The DD doesn't have these functions either.
The AutoXray provides a separate function for clearing codes whereas the DD will only do it as a full ECU reset. However I asked ECUTek about this and they said that's how the ECU works, clearing codes and resetting are the same function. I'd like to find some independent verification as to whether or not that's true.
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Old 09-05-2002, 02:18 PM   #18
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mulder... is this the one you have? Why did you choose this over some Palm based unit such as the Pocketlogger, or the Auterra?

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