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Old 08-13-2012, 04:39 PM   #1
Touge86
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Default FT86 OEM Defect Awareness

I originally wasn't going to post this around the web, but I would like to raise awareness of my current situation and how it is being handled by TOYOTA. I want to raise awareness of my situation so that other consumers looking to potentially purchase one of these cars, will be aware at the level of production quality, as well as quality of customer service provided by TOYOTA/ SUBARU. I would hope that no one else will make the mistake I did of leaving the lot with a car that has frame damage from the factory. I know that I purchased the Toyota variant of this car, but I am posting this because they are indeed build side by side with the BRZ in the same factory.

Cliff Notes: Toyota Sold Me a Lemon FRS with Structural Frame Damage and this thread will follow how they take care of the problem.


Many of you know me and have seen me on this forum for a few years. You probably know my background with the AE86 as well. In addition, you can probably guess, that because of my dedication to this car, I have been wanting to pick up a GT86/BRZ/FRS since it was rumored to be coming back on the market a few years ago.

I purchased a brand new Scion FRS on July 24th, 2012 from KARL MALONE TOYOTA. The car had 6 Miles on it when I looked at it, and 9 miles on the odometer when delivered. The official sales documentation shows 10 miles when delivered.

After taking delivery of the vehicle, I noticed that a part of the frame in the trunk was significantly damaged. I showed the sales person as well as the Scion Sales Manager the damage. The Sales Manager assured me that the damage was minimal and would be easily fixed so that I couldn't tell anything had ever happened. With his assurance, I left the lot with the car (1ST MISTAKE).

The very next day after work, I took the car in to the service department to get an estimate for how long the repair would take so that I could schedule around it. wait on it. They took pictures and told me that they would have to contact Toyota in regards. The dealership did not call me for a week or so, so I called them the next week to see what the hold up was? They told me they had heard back from Toyota and that they were going to need to cut the frame support piece out of the car to replace it. I asked if it could not just be flattened and made to look like new, but they told me the part would never be the same structurally or aesthetically. I told them that cutting a part out of the frame of a brand new vehicle was not an option, and that I would be contacting corporate Toyota.

I sent a detailed email to Scion with images of the damage and the information regarding the case up to that point. I sent this two weekends ago (Roughly August 4th). Monday morning I heard from the Karl Malone Toyota Scion Sales Manager (Jim Clayton). He told me that he understood I was having some issues with the part. I told him about not wanting to cut the part off of the frame of the car and that I was in contact with Scion USA. He told me to let him know if I needed anything else from him and that he would be in contact. Maybe an hour later, the rep from SCION USA in Torrance, CA called to get the full story on the car, and told me that she had seen the images both in my email as well as on a forum (FT86Club). She wanted to know what resolution I expected, and I told her that I would need a vehicle replacement option due to the extent of the damage. I also told her that the car has a full clear bra application that would need to be replaced as well as tax title and licensing fees. She thanked me for my time and told me that we would be in touch.

The next day she called to let me know that the regional Toyota Sales Rep would be contacting me in regards to the issue (I think his name is David, though I honestly can't remember right now). He told me that they needed to schedule for the factory certified body shop to look at the car on Friday (Aug 10) so that they could assess the damage. He told me that the shop could look at it at 4pm.

Friday came around and I headed up to get the car looked at. I was running early, so I called the body shop to see if that would be ok? They told me it was not a problem at all, so I stopped in and had them write up an estimate. While there they told me that the part was unrepairable and would need to be replaced.

Here is what they put on the estimate they gave me:
Replace- Package Tray Reinforcement (so it is in fact structural not aesthetic)
R&I (remove and install)- Trunk Trim/ Weather Stripping
R&I- Package Tray trim and inner quarter trim
R&I- Rear Seat Back
Refn- Rt Quarter/ Trunk Through
Add for Three Stage (Repaint on trunk and fender)
R&I- Trunk Lid
R&I- Rt Tail Lamp
Color Tint

So basically the shop wants to remove everything in the rear of the car in order to replace the part. They said they have to drill the welds and that they will have to repaint the rain gutter above the trunk as well because they are changing the weld type and that the welds will burn through the bottom of the gutter.

The regional rep called me today and mentioned that I had missed my appointment at 4pm. I told him I had been into the shop early and got all of the information from them at 3:30pm. He then told me that he had told me I was supposed to meet with his Toyota estimator as well as the people at their certified techs. I told him he had never mentioned any of that in the previous call, and I wondered why the shop didn't mention it either when I asked if it mattered if I came in 30 minutes early? The rep then told me that the shop told him the brace was repairable without removal (even though they had told me it was not). I told the rep that the only way that this would be acceptable, is if the shop can make the part look OEM brand new, he said that it could be flattened, but could not be returned to new condition. I told him that I did not find that to be satisfactory. He then asked what I wanted, and once again, I told them that the vehicle needed to be replaced. It is a factory structural defect, so even if they do not want to help me with the replacement, I will have to seek legal action and have the vehicle replaced under Utah's Lemon Laws. He told me he would look into it, and that I would hear from them soon.

I will add more updates as I hear them. I hope that Toyota can make this an experience that I can praise them for and not just the opposite.


Here are the pictures of the damage:

Here is what the panel should look like:


Here is what it looks like:


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Old 08-13-2012, 04:58 PM   #2
Jack
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Utah has a Lemon law. You should probably look into it. Return of a vehicle sounds like a good idea to me.

Contact the Utah attorney general. Tell them how you bought a brand new car that appears to have major structural dammage. I'm sure they would be quite interested to hear the whole story from the dealer or Toyota. How did that dammage happen? When? Where? Why was it not documented and revealed to you when you picked up the car?

They are clearly giving you the run around. Although it will do nothing, put in a claim with the BBB.

Have you talked with the owner of the dealership? If not, contact him and talk about this. You simply want a new, undammaged car. I would not be pushing for the clear bra. Do you simply want out? If so, your refund of your entire purchase price is in order. I would expect that the state may have a method to return your fees (I don't know).
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:09 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack ffr1846 View Post
Utah has a Lemon law. You should probably look into it. Return of a vehicle sounds like a good idea to me.

Contact the Utah attorney general. Tell them how you bought a brand new car that appears to have major structural dammage. I'm sure they would be quite interested to hear the whole story from the dealer or Toyota. How did that dammage happen? When? Where? Why was it not documented and revealed to you when you picked up the car?

They are clearly giving you the run around. Although it will do nothing, put in a claim with the BBB.

Have you talked with the owner of the dealership? If not, contact him and talk about this. You simply want a new, undammaged car. I would not be pushing for the clear bra. Do you simply want out? If so, your refund of your entire purchase price is in order. I would expect that the state may have a method to return your fees (I don't know).
Well put. If you are going to spend that kind of money for a brand new car, it should be delivered that way. Something obviously went wrong in their process, during manufacturing, QA or during delivery although I can't imagine how that part could be damaged during transit.

I've had good luck in the past with the very few times I've had to report something to the BBB. They intervened and were able to act as the mediator and get my issues resolved, although they were not at this type of magnitude and value.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:18 PM   #4
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The Regional Rep just called me and wants me to go back up to the body shop tomorrow morning so they can go through it again with him there this time.

I will get the ball rolling with the attorney general/ bbb as well.

The owner of the dealership? This guy:



But the GM was there when I purchased the car as well. His brother was the sales person.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:24 PM   #5
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Email to Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff has now been sent as well in regards.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:35 PM   #6
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if that was me I would of never driven the car off the lot. Anytime I buy a new car I check it AFTER they clean it up (Just in case the detail dept scratch the paint) then I sign the papers and drive off. Good luck...put up a good fight
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Touge86 View Post
The Regional Rep just called me and wants me to go back up to the body shop tomorrow morning so they can go through it again with him there this time.

I will get the ball rolling with the attorney general/ bbb as well.

The owner of the dealership? This guy:



But the GM was there when I purchased the car as well. His brother was the sales person.
Hahahah nice...

I would say they are definitely giving you the run around, they're going to do everything in their power to not have to give you a brand new car.

Should've bought a BRZ, but good luck to you sir.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Scoobs17 View Post

Should've bought a BRZ
The hell difference would that have made?
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:09 PM   #9
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Because its a Subaru!
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:31 PM   #10
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The hell difference would that have made?
Heard the handling is slightly better on BRZ
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:34 PM   #11
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Isn't a car with structural frame damage dangerous to drive? And because of that illegal to sell?
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:38 PM   #12
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...and then the idiots showed up
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:44 PM   #13
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most auctions in the US do not consider what is in the picture above as frame damage
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:46 PM   #14
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OP, sorry to hear about this giant headache you're dealing with. When you buy a new car, the last thing you expect is crap like this. Hope it all gets resolved.
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:55 PM   #15
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Thanks for the support. I want to make sure people are aware of this.

I had a really hard time deciding between the FRS and BRZ, but in the end bought the FRS because I like it more (me personally).

This experience will definitely let me know if I should have gone with Subaru over Toyota because I know from experiences with close friends that Subaru goes above and beyond to take care of them.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:33 PM   #16
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I'm interested to see how this all turns out. I would expect a full refund or a new car. Don't let them try to repair it and call it a day. Keep us updated on what happens next.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:46 PM   #17
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OP go look up the NAAA guidelines for structural damage so you know where you really stand on whether or not the vehicle has unibody damage. That policy is what the auctions use and most all dealers go by it as well. Hope it all works out for u
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:44 PM   #18
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Weird that the part was put on the car at all. I have no idea what is automated or human installed, but my guess is it was an automated process because I couldn't see a person tossing on that part in that condition. Unfortunately automation doesn't find issues unless the defect affects how the process is prevented by the defect.

Unfotunately with how cars are produced these days, things like this are no longer as simple as unbolting a panel and replacing it with a new one. It can be fixed without much issue as it's just a damaged piece of steel. The new part goes in, gets welded, and things are painted. The car is none the worse for the work.

The downside is you bought a brand new car. You expect a perfect car. I would ask them to swap cars, but I would think they'd simply sell it to some other guy who would end up not noticing it. Getting Toyota involved is an appropriate action. I do very much doubt they'd simply give you a new car as the repair isn't all that big of a deal. The piece of steel is damaged, but the car overall is not.

This is a realistically minor manufacturing error. It's unfortunately that the squished piece of steel made it on the car and all the way to the customer. There should be quality checks in place, human or automated checking, but the process seems to have some holes. Tisk. It's not actually a major thing, just a random squished part.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:46 PM   #19
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I remember in the 80's there was a big to-do about chrysler execs and jr. execs taking new cars out and wrecking them or damaging them in some way.

then turning around and selling the cars after the fact as new because they had never been truly registered.

it was quite the news when it happened...
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:52 PM   #20
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just troll them till it gets fixed
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:32 PM   #21
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You know what is sad. I hope this wasn't bought in Arkansas. The very first FR-S to show up at north point toyota was driven by one of the salesmen and he thought it would be cool to drift. drifted he did, into a curb. total damages were "unknown" but one of the rim was unrepairable and a new one was shipped over night. sadly, it was a white one too and since it wasn't written registered, it was sold as new. poor fellow. hope that isn't your car.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:36 PM   #22
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To be fair, I think your expectations of getting a replacement for something like that are pretty over the top. Not saying it couldn't happen, but that it probably won't. I guess it just depends on the particular laws.

Also, to whoever said the BRZ handles better.. It doesn't. Same. Exact. Car.
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:01 AM   #23
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I usually get everything in writing or have a papper trail. Document the damage and have the sales guy sign it.

Save your emails and when you talk on the phone with anyone send them a email discussing everything you just talked about.

Good luck with your car but you really did screw up a little driving it off the lot like that.
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:11 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampager2000 View Post
To be fair, I think your expectations of getting a replacement for something like that are pretty over the top. Not saying it couldn't happen, but that it probably won't. I guess it just depends on the particular laws.

Also, to whoever said the BRZ handles better.. It doesn't. Same. Exact. Car.
Replacement is perfectly fair. I paid for a brand new car, not one with an accident history and frame damage.

The person that said the BRZ handles better, you are right. The spring rates are different.
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:16 AM   #25
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This car now has an accident history because of this? Just wondering.
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