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Old 08-16-2012, 02:38 AM   #1
socalLGT
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Default Next Gen is here: Full-Race/Borg-Warner EFR7163 in stock location. 440whp/443wtq

Car: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX STi
Tuner: Me, Paul Leung of YimiSport Tuning
Dyno Info: Dynojet 424X
Ambient Temp: 95*F
Elevation: about 1300' ASL
Transmission: Stock 6MT
Gear: 4th
Peak HP at RPM: 440whp @ 5900rpm (E85). 350whp @ 5900rpm (CA 91 octane)
Peak Torque at RPM: 443ft/lbs @ 3600rpm (E85). 353ft/lbs @3600rpm (CA 91 octane)
Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: 230HP/255tq - 2008 STi
Target Boost: 25 PSI (E85), 22 PSI (91 Octane)
Target AFR: 12:1 (gasoline scale on E85), 10.9:1 on 91 octane
Fuel: E85 and CA 91 octane pump gas


Mods:

- Full-Race uppipe and catted downpipe to locate a Borg Warner EFR7163 (2013 release turbo, one of only a handful that have made their way out in to the world) in stock location. Ready to bolt up to all OEM or aftermarket parts that will fit the stock turbo (inlets, TMIC's, FMIC's etc...)
- Fujitsubo Legalis R catback (with the 2.5" taper intact)
- Custom YimiSport 73mm CAI
- Custom YimiSport FPR kit
- APS turbo inlet pipe
- Grimmspeed hybrid EBCS/MBC boost control
- Deatschwerks 1000cc injectors
- Synergy 300lph fuel pump
- Cobb AP


The narrative that no one cares about:

Stock motor (60k miles), stock TMIC and stock exhaust manifold. Basically just enough mods to supply enough fuel, sample the incoming air and get it out the back of the car as quietly and cleanly as possible

Every so often a turbo company introduces a product that "spools like small turbo X, but make power like BIG turbo Y". Physics being the b!tch that it is, has usually proven such claims to be more hype than reality So when Geoff from Full-Race told me about a new turbo that would spool like a turbo 10lbs/min smaller than it's rated flow, my interest was piqued, but my BS meter was similarly pegged. I'll let you guys be the judge, but I think even on my less than fully supported test platform, Borg Warner and Full-Race have come pretty close to their claim.

I have always wanted to have a Subaru that made 500wtq before 4000rpm and still made over 450whp. I'm not quite there yet, but with a couple more bolt-on mods I can easily see it happening even on the stock block. In the mean time, I've been enjoying one hell of a broad powerband and nearly instantaneous boost recover all in a damn near stock appearing package


Pics:








Dyno Graphs:

Pump and E85


Pump and E85 compared with a typical Stage 2 08+ STI


Damn near stock turbo spool with nearly 200whp more by redline... not too shaby
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:00 AM   #2
bjohnson_55
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wow pretty amazing results. I think P&L has some competition with their new kit!
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:51 AM   #3
rasheedn
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wow this looks amazing

where can i get one ?

i see no bov bpv ?

any pictures of the up pipe and downpipe ?

any problems with boost like others had controlling boost?
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:15 AM   #4
SoCal_Scooby
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..
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I believe without a bpv it can hold boost better with high boost numbers, because the boost will start to open it. And i heard its easier to tune without it
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:24 AM   #5
Black07STiGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasheedn

i see no bov bpv ?
I believe that the efr turbos have the bpv built into the Turbo. I would post a pic but I'm on my phone. Google search it or look in the other efr threads. I could be dead tired and completely wrong too.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:28 AM   #6
Black07STiGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCal_Scooby
I believe without a bpv it can hold boost better with high boost numbers, because the boost will start to open it. And i heard its easier to tune without it
I think you might be wrong. I'm not positive though. They make bpv with interchangable springs for full race setups. I think on our cars, it would be dangerous not to purge the unused pressure somehow. I think diesel trucks are the only ones that have No bpv/bov period.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:39 AM   #7
rasheedn
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and crawford cars as i remember

ur right efr do have an internal valve but this is a stock location unit so maybe its different ?

i donno just guessing
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:50 AM   #8
Beetspeed
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Awesome! I believe perrin (?) tested the EFR7064 to be later spooling then stock and the even smaller one (6458?) spooled faster, but now this 7163 spools as fast as stock AND gives wayyyy more flow/hp!

What made this happen all of a sudden as a 7163 looks like its the same-ish dimension as a 7064 and parts are as light-weight as possible already with the EFR line? More aggressive trim?

320 hp at 4000 rpm! Wow!
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:17 AM   #9
jkopinga
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^^^ I believe it IS essentially a 7064 but keep in mind that the 7064 does not come with the small turbine housing which is .64 A/R I believe.

It seems they have transplanted the 7064 CHRA into the 6758-type Turbine housing.

Jasper.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:56 AM   #10
mekilljoydammit
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Some articles I'm seeing on it are talking about what's actually a new turbine wheel shape to extract more energy from the exhaust gas at lower flow levels. I just think the whole thing's pretty sexy.
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Old 08-16-2012, 10:10 AM   #11
todeswalzer
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That's a lot of torque for 3600 rpm.

And 300whp.

Wow.

I want it.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:05 PM   #12
socalLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasheedn View Post
wow this looks amazing

where can i get one ?

i see no bov bpv ?

any pictures of the up pipe and downpipe ?

any problems with boost like others had controlling boost?
Can't get one quite yet till Borg Warner officially releases the turbo, but I do know that Full-Race is all set on their end with the uppipe/downpipe and ancillary bits. As for the BOV/BPV, all EFR turbos have one integrated in to the compressor cover, hence the block off plate on my stock TMIC

No boost control issues at all. I have the high pressure actuator and that combined with the hybrid Grimmspeed boost control allowed me to dial in the exact amount of boost I was looking for with rock steady boost control.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jkopinga View Post
^^^ I believe it IS essentially a 7064 but keep in mind that the 7064 does not come with the small turbine housing which is .64 A/R I believe.

It seems they have transplanted the 7064 CHRA into the 6758-type Turbine housing.

Jasper.
Not exactly. The EFR7163 is indeed a B1 frame turbo (like the 6758) which is what allows it to be located in stock location. However the compressor and turbine wheels are all new. I believe the turbine wheel in particular uses mixed flow geometry. The exact physics are a bit beyond my full understanding so perhaps the folks at Full-Race will chime in on that. Suffice to say that the response of the turbo shows the value of the new wheels.

Also just for clarity sake, the EFR7163 I have on my car sits in basically stock location but it is NOT a bolt-on turbo (ie: bolts to OEM fitment uppipes and downpipes). The turbo has a T25 inlet flange and a 3" v-band discharge. The Full-Race uppipe and downpipe are what allows it to fit in stock location.

Here are a couple more pics of the turbo, uppipe and downpipe:







The last 2 pics of the DP show a few extra welds as I made some adjustments to the original prototype for better fitment and sent them back to Full-Race so they could adjust their fixtures. I have the revised DP and UP on my car now and they fit great.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:56 PM   #13
CatfaceType-R
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Hey paul, post more!


Carmi
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:07 PM   #14
thefoos
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7064 TS WRB

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Great to see. Maybe I should have waited I wanted to do a stock location 6758 twin scroll. Do you know if there are any plans by BW to and TS to the smaller range and full race to offer a "stock location" ts option?
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:56 AM   #15
Fierysun
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Wow! That setup spools up crazy fast!
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:56 AM   #16
Kastley85891
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super spool, thats nuts, super cool work
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:09 AM   #17
CKxx
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Which size is this turbo? Which one is the 67mm?
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:57 AM   #18
socalLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefoos View Post
Great to see. Maybe I should have waited I wanted to do a stock location 6758 twin scroll. Do you know if there are any plans by BW to and TS to the smaller range and full race to offer a "stock location" ts option?
The B1 frame turbos have always been available in IWG twinscroll configuration. I do not know for sure if the 7163 will be for sure, but I would expect so. As to whether or not Full-Race can or will do a stock location TS kit that is a question best left to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CKxx View Post
Which size is this turbo? Which one is the 67mm?
71mm compressor OD and 63 mm turbine OD. The EFR6758 has a 67mm compressor.
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:22 PM   #19
SUBARIFFIC
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This is pretty nice so I'm guessing this would do about 370-390 on 93 this is pretty awesome it pretty much makes it worthless to consider a GTX30 period. Easy installation and internal WG and stock spool this is very niiice
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:49 PM   #20
socalLGT
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Originally Posted by SUBARIFFIC View Post
This is pretty nice so I'm guessing this would do about 370-390 on 93 this is pretty awesome it pretty much makes it worthless to consider a GTX30 period. Easy installation and internal WG and stock spool this is very niiice
I think if I had better intercooling and the car was catless I could have made 370+whp on 91 octane. My car has actually never been a particularly strong one and mod for mod was usually 5-10whp down compared to other similar cars I've tuned. So long story short, I think this turbo should be easily capable of hitting 380-400whp on 93 octane if all the moons align right.

As for the comparisons to the GT series turbos, the biggest difference is in the turbine wheels. The Garrett GTX compressor wheels are very nice but are still paired with some relatively old tech turbines. They work nicely as well but the newest EFR stuff really does seem at the very least a significant evolution of turbo technology.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalLGT View Post
Can't get one quite yet till Borg Warner officially releases the turbo, but I do know that Full-Race is all set on their end with the uppipe/downpipe and ancillary bits.
- Is there a realistic estimate on availability?

- Does this frame match any existing (I use that term loosely) EFR turbos? Could we use the UP / DOWN setup with a 6758, for example, then move to a 7163 in a few years when it's available?

I really like the idea of an EFR setup that uses the TMIC.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:06 PM   #22
Paidfor
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OMG!!!! I want i want i want
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:10 PM   #23
K1WRC
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Now if they could make one that will mate up to the factory twinscroll header, new uppipe portion and downpipe obviously, twinscroll EFR anyone?

My 8k rpm would be happy!

I'm willing to be a guinea pig
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:28 PM   #24
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Looks good
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Old 08-17-2012, 04:27 PM   #25
socalLGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
- Is there a realistic estimate on availability?

- Does this frame match any existing (I use that term loosely) EFR turbos? Could we use the UP / DOWN setup with a 6758, for example, then move to a 7163 in a few years when it's available?

I really like the idea of an EFR setup that uses the TMIC.
I have no idea on availability of the EFR7163, but it is a B1 frame turbo just like the 6758 so I don't see any reason why you couldn't use one with the FR UP/DP now.
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