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Old 08-24-2012, 05:28 PM   #126
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Love the info guys.
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:36 PM   #127
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As u see the graphs on the first page. Can u imagine the spool,response, and power on this thing if it was twinscroll it would almost be NA like with big boy V8 power. Also the 6758 is more comparable to the gtx3071.
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:50 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBARIFFIC
Its more than just wheel combination they're built lighter with different aerodynamics the 7163 has some funky aluminum housing on the bearings and etc. And to top that all the B1's are 2.5 inlets so it's no contest. Compared to the GTX3071. Also look where Killer B mounted their unit its not even practical. That has a lot to do with that GTX performance. Every EFR video I've seen the turbos are spooling faster than any Garrett period.
I understand the feature differences.
I am not doubting the performance. I don't understand your point about the low mount kit. I didnt post the dyno chart. How does the inlet size make it no contest? Is it because larger inlets cannot be mounted to use the stock inlet?

Im sure the lighter rotating mass helps a lot. But the radius of the turbine housing would be a tad smaller than a t3 turbo since the area of the inlet is slightly reduced. I'm just pointing out that it should spool faster hence the differences.
So I'm agreeing with you that they do perform better because they should. And yes you're right that Garrett doesnt make turbos with this exact wheel combinations. They do have closer matches than the 3076 in .63 though. It would be nice to see the 3576 up against the 7670 and the gtx3071 in 63 against whatever efr you claim is equivalent. At least it would be more comparable than the conparisons alteady made. That's all I'm saying. I'm no doubter.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:50 AM   #129
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:17 AM   #130
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Everyone who has driven in the efr equipped cars says the car just drives better. Spool, response, and power delivery is just better. What we have here is a simple case of very old tech vs new tech and people are unsure. Garrett turbos are a DVD disc and The EFR is a Blu-Ray Disc. I just hope Garrett give u guys something to jump up and down for cause they're long overdue for some awesome.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:15 AM   #131
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If EFR releases the turbo in T/S and FR can put it in stock location it's exactly what I've been wanting. How long should I hold my breath?
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:00 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draco159 View Post
I agree Phatron, we see that all to often.

Question then becomes, is the EFR worth it now?

To me then, my "all in one" package is a no brainer seeing as I can get more "bang for my buck".
Agree as well. It's all about how much and where the bang will be for how many bucks, or how many bangs you get for your buck... or?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mekilljoydammit View Post
It's almost like different parts combinations have different appeal to different people who use them for different purposes.
^ Yeah that's what I was trying to say!

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Originally Posted by socalLGT View Post
Pump and E85 compared with a typical Stage 2 08+ STI


Damn near stock turbo spool with nearly 200whp more by redline... not too shaby
Since our name came up here's our plot for psudo comparison. The major difference is our 'kit' will be more expensive and includes many more parts. The engine is otherwise stock and built only to handle testing abuse. The other variable was was we have 93 octane vs 91

So here ya go plot junkies...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
Some customers are two dimensional (HP vs. cost). You either believe EFR construction offers a distinct advantage over traditional turbos or you don't.

I don't know how big the market is for this group of people, it might be small it might be medium, we both know it won't bee a huge market, no rotated kit will have a huge market. You do have to admit, though, that it's a completely different market from any existing rotated kit, with the possible exception of the KillerB low/front mount GT30 style kit... which this kit should end up in the same ballpark, or potentially even cheaper than that solution. I actually don't know if he ever marketed it, or just made it specifically for his car.
Great points here ^ we've got more testing, but to be honest. You can't get me out of this car. I pick it everytime over the 2012 (stage II+), it's just a freaking blast to drive!

Quote:
Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
Killerb recently tested the .63 GTX3071 and the curve looks similar except peak power is down but this was on a mustang dyno.
This is true, plot above

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBARIFFIC View Post
Also look where Killer B mounted their unit its not even practical.
Care to elaborate?

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Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
I don't understand your point about the low mount kit.
That makes two of us
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:27 AM   #133
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killerB is that your gt30 dyno chart you posted?
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:38 AM   #134
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Yes, it is a GTX3071-R (Tial 0.63 A/R)

We stopped BY EFI to have them change the tune to SD and tune our 2012 too.

If I have offended I can pull it down.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:21 PM   #135
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I am actually happy my VF39 died as now I know exactly what I will be replacing it with. As a mechanical engineer, the development and design of this turbo really interests me. I hope these will be available soon. Any idea what injectors would be recommended?
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:00 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decodeddiesel View Post
Any idea what injectors would be recommended?
Well, you can see in the original post they were using DW1000cc injectors. I imagine that's pretty close to full open on E85 at that power level. It might not be enough to max it out if you start freeing up breathing a little.

Personally, on gas I'd use ID1000, which actually flow a little less than DW1000. You won't really need that much on gas, but there's little reason to go smaller than ID1000s, E85 would probably be more comfortable with a ~1200-1300ish injector. Talk to whoever is doing your tuning to see if they have a favorite brand. Go with what he likes and you usually will end up with a better overall tune than picking whatever.

Geoff said the kit would be available late September-ish earlier in the thread, but this 7163 is not released from Borg Warner yet and has no ETA. Given the delays in "current" EFR turbos, it could be quite a long time until the 7163 is available. "Current" B1 frame EFRs are the 6258 and 6758, which are both smaller than this. Should be a little more responsive, but lower top end. Exactly how much isn't really well defined at this point, but Perrin's initial testing of the EFR6758 showed it to spool almost exactly like the vf, but it held 25 psi to redline and as a result had significantly more HP than a tapering vf turbo does... so smaller, but it seems to be no slouch. That would likely be the turbo to go with until the 7163 becomes available.

Last edited by Concillian; 09-08-2012 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:15 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
Well, you can see in the original post they were using DW1000cc injectors. I imagine that's pretty close to full open on E85 at that power level. It might not be enough to max it out if you start freeing up breathing a little.

Personally, on gas I'd use ID1000, which actually flow a little less than DW1000. You won't really need that much on gas, but there's little reason to go smaller than ID1000s, E85 would probably be more comfortable with a ~1200-1300ish injector. Talk to whoever is doing your tuning to see if they have a favorite brand. Go with what he likes and you usually will end up with a better overall tune than picking whatever.

Geoff said the kit would be available late September-ish earlier in the thread, but this 7163 is not released from Borg Warner yet and has no ETA. Given the delays in "current" EFR turbos, it could be quite a long time until the 7163 is available. "Current" B1 frame EFRs are the 6258 and 6758, which are both smaller than this. Should be a little more responsive, but lower top end. Exactly how much isn't really well defined at this point, but Perrin's initial testing of the EFR6758 showed it to spool almost exactly like the vf, but it held 25 psi to redline and as a result had significantly more HP than a tapering vf turbo does... so smaller, but it seems to be no slouch. That would likely be the turbo to go with until the 7163 becomes available.
Yeah I saw the injector size in the OP, I was thinking DW1100s. Thanks for the post, it was very helpful. I have been researching the heck out of BW turbos over the past few days and just got more and more confused.
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Old 09-08-2012, 03:17 PM   #138
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Your bottom mount "GTX3071" is uhmm different but I thought this tread was about the EFR 7163. Your numbers are great for what it is but replace it with a EFR 6758 and it would even better. You can sugar coat that Garrett however you want rotated,bottom,top,ass mount the thing is still old technology. The thread is about how superior the EFR is compared to what on the market right now.smh This turbo isn't fully optimized and it's in a conventional location.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:30 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBARIFFIC View Post
Your bottom mount "GTX3071" is uhmm different but I thought this tread was about the EFR 7163. Your numbers are great for what it is but replace it with a EFR 6758 and it would even better. You can sugar coat that Garrett however you want rotated,bottom,top,ass mount the thing is still old technology. The thread is about how superior the EFR is compared to what on the market right now.smh This turbo isn't fully optimized and it's in a conventional location.
I'm not sure how I may have 'sugar coated' the Garretts? They met the needs to the project, as simple as that.

Our name was brought up by others so I posted. Including your comment about how our setup was 'not practical', that another thread poster questioned as well.

Just like I posted regarding other comments, like anyone else can do, not even derogatory to the EFRs. I'm sorry if my posting may have upset you.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:10 PM   #140
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I'm not upset at all. Just confused why you're advertising your setup on a EFR thread that's all. Your bottom mount turbo kit has nothing to do with Next Gen is here: Full-Race/Borg-Warner EFR 7163 in stock location 440whp/443wtq. Your Kit has it's own place imo
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:35 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBARIFFIC View Post
Just confused why you're advertising your setup on a EFR thread that's all. Your bottom mount turbo kit has nothing to do with Next Gen is here: Full-Race/Borg-Warner EFR 7163 in stock location 440whp/443wtq. Your Kit has it's own place imo
No advertising and I even posted to Geoff here that I could pull the post if he didn't like it.

If you only want EFR only talk in here, you've got more policing to do. If you can stifle Killer B comments, from anyone else, and yourself, I'll stay out.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:45 PM   #142
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Very nice on both kits/systems...
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:30 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport

No advertising and I even posted to Geoff here that I could pull the post if he didn't like it.

If you only want EFR only talk in here, you've got more policing to do. If you can stifle Killer B comments, from anyone else, and yourself, I'll stay out.
Man what are you 10 it's really not that serious.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:19 AM   #144
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Will be interested to see how these turbo's pan out. Will play a roll in what I decide to do when I do an upgrade. I will not go stock location if I'm going to be spending 3+ grand on the kit.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:19 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by SUBARIFFIC View Post
Man what are you 10 it's really not that serious.
Look in the mirror Mr. Keyboard Chaser. Speak up when you have something worth talking about. If its not worth talking about/serious why did you even mention it? How about if you cannot even TIG weld, then be quiet ???
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:41 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by FatTurbos74 View Post
Look in the mirror Mr. Keyboard Chaser. Speak up when you have something worth talking about. If its not worth talking about/serious why did you even mention it? How about if you cannot even TIG weld, then be quiet ???
Okay Okay I'll be quiet now if it makes ya'll happy. I Just know what set-up I'll be using so all this back-n-forth doesn't matter. And the TIG Welding I could if I transfer Departments they do train For FREE
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Old 09-09-2012, 10:37 PM   #147
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Ugh - seeing these numbers I am really between this and the FR 1.5 GT3071R scroll kit. The only reason I am leaning towards the 1.5 kit is because it keeps my existing TBE as Phatron has already pointed out. This is exactly in my realm for my goals with the car. I want a fun daily that keeps the pep I have with the TD04, and I also love the twin scroll like the Evo 9's are set up with.

Question for Geoff: Will you guys offer an option for going EWG? If so, what about an option to re-route the plumbing back to the exhaust?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUBARIFFIC View Post
500-600whp in a Subie is equivalent to a EVO with almost a 1000.
Owning, driving, and working on both, I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. Not sure I understand the point attempting to be made though.
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:40 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by BoostinChick View Post
Owning, driving, and working on both, I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. Not sure I understand the point attempting to be made though.

I think he means for the amount of $$$ and work you would put in to get a 600HP Subbie, you would have 1000HP on the EVO. (He's not saying that a 600HP subaru is as fast as a 1000hp evo, unless the evo was towing a yacht)
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:31 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortal2None

I think he means for the amount of $$$ and work you would put in to get a 600HP Subbie, you would have 1000HP on the EVO. (He's not saying that a 600HP subaru is as fast as a 1000hp evo, unless the evo was towing a yacht)
Bingo!! I love my Subie but I'll get divorced if I put that much money into this car. This EFR 6758 or 7163 is the limit in this household. What she says goes so 400WHP it is.lol
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:39 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortal2None View Post
I think he means for the amount of $$$ and work you would put in to get a 600HP Subbie, you would have 1000HP on the EVO. (He's not saying that a 600HP subaru is as fast as a 1000hp evo, unless the evo was towing a yacht)
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Bingo!! I love my Subie but I'll get divorced if I put that much money into this car. This EFR 6758 or 7163 is the limit in this household. What she says goes so 400WHP it is.lol
Ehhhhh modding the Evo can be pretty expensive, so maybe not 1000hp . But I would agree with the Mitsu Evo is easier to get to 400awhp than the Subaru. I now understand where you were going with it though.
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