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Old 08-16-2012, 10:17 AM   #1
KillerBMotorsport
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Default Crankshaft question for the knowlegdable

We all know the nitrided crank was introduced shortly after the GR came to market, and that it was nitrided, but...

My OEM sources tell me at sometime during 2011, up to the current MY, the part number went back to the older GD part number.

So... Can anyone please verify for me if a late 2011 or 2012 has a non-nitrided crank?

Basically I'm looking for a new non-nitrided crank and want to be sure if I order one, it doesn't come nitrided... Or if I'll have to do the NOS search :/

Thanks guys!
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Old 08-16-2012, 12:32 PM   #2
B.R.E.D
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The cranks we are getting now are heat treated but not nitrided, as far as I can tell the nitrided cranks aren't available any longer.

Matt
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:05 PM   #3
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Matt is right.. All current cranks aren't the old school black..
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:40 PM   #4
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No more nitrided crank. It is superceeded by the old crank.

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Old 08-16-2012, 01:45 PM   #5
FuJi K
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I like this!
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Old 08-16-2012, 01:55 PM   #6
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Why do they no longer make them Nitrided? was there problems?
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:40 PM   #7
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OK good! I did not like the nitrided crank.

Thanks everyone!!
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:19 PM   #8
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First, the Non-Nitride crank has always been available, and its part # is 12200AA370.

The Nitride Treated crank did come around starting in 2009, and it has been superseded, but there was a botched supersession in the Subaru tape.

The Nitride Treated Crank was origionally a 12200AA430 which was supposed to go to the 12200AA330. But the 330 was somehow superceded to the AA370, so if you ordered a 430 or a 330, you would get a 370. And of course the 370 is not treated.

All of the 330's that we have received of late do appear to still be nitride treated, and are black in color. It is possible that their treatment has changed but I have not been able to get any solid confirmation on that.

Sorry for the Abbot & Costello, but hopefully that makes sense.

To further complicate matters, but for informational purposes, the split from the 370 non-treated crank start with build dates in September of 2008, and went to the 400, and they are not interchangeable (because the 400 is nitride treated, and the 370 is not). The 400 superseded to the 430, and in February of 2011, that superseded to the 330. So as far as we can tell, all the cars should still be getting a nitride treated crank, or at least a crank that has been treated some how, and is black in color.

Last edited by FlatironsTuning.com; 08-16-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:25 PM   #9
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^ All good info. Sounds like a 370 is what I'll need.
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Old 08-17-2012, 06:18 AM   #10
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I bought a 704 code EJ257 shortblock new from subaru from a vendor, and the engine was manufactured very recently. I knew about them discontinuing the nitrided cranks and going to new heat treated cranks(different than the early plain ones). Here's a pic of my heat treated crank, enjoy!



Last edited by Just1More; 08-17-2012 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:52 AM   #11
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Looks like a light case hardening.

Asking for a lot here, but anyone capable of rockwell testing the journals?
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukeduster
Why do they no longer make them Nitrided? was there problems?
Same question since I recently put one in my build from Flat Irons Tuning.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:44 AM   #13
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^ That's really only a question Subaru can answer.

Speculation...

Nitriding is not enviromentally friendly and doesn't fit with the "green initiative" Subaru is undertaking.

Induction heat treating them is more cost friendly.

No one will know which is 'better' without sending them to a lab for testing. Even at that, it only shows which is harder, tougher, stronger, etc... not which is 'better' for what they are used for. That depends on the application/build.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:08 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Nitriding is not enviromentally friendly and doesn't fit with the "green initiative" Subaru is undertaking.
My WRX doesn't fit with that initiative either so I guess it's ok.
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:10 PM   #15
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That crank looks HOT!
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
That crank looks HOT!
*cough* i've seen what happens if you burn a crank
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Looks like a light case hardening.

Asking for a lot here, but anyone capable of rockwell testing the journals?
Yeah, I have a materials lab that I can get permission to use at the local university. I'd have to arrange it like usual BUT I don't have either stock crank sitting around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
^ That's really only a question Subaru can answer.

Speculation...

Nitriding is not enviromentally friendly and doesn't fit with the "green initiative" Subaru is undertaking.

Induction heat treating them is more cost friendly.

No one will know which is 'better' without sending them to a lab for testing. Even at that, it only shows which is harder, tougher, stronger, etc... not which is 'better' for what they are used for. That depends on the application/build.
The FA20 crank is nitrided...
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:32 AM   #18
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We pulled out a hand-full of the AA330 cranks that we have, and sure enough, they are all heat treated. The other interesting thing is that they show signs of possibly being balanced as well.

Notice the machine marks on the crank here:

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Old 08-22-2012, 11:47 AM   #19
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Neat, thanks!
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:08 PM   #20
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I work at a Subaru dealer and we had the same issue with the part #'s. It looks like the new crank part # superceded to the old non nitrated crank. According to SOA it was a mistake and should be fixed very soon.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukeduster View Post
Why do they no longer make them Nitrided? was there problems?
supposedly the nitration process was used to make up for an inferior alloy
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:16 PM   #22
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Talking to our parts guys, we can still get nitrated cranks. SOA says there still available.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatironsTuning.com View Post
We pulled out a hand-full of the AA330 cranks that we have, and sure enough, they are all heat treated. The other interesting thing is that they show signs of possibly being balanced as well.

Notice the machine marks on the crank here:

They always have been balanced. I have seen more than a handfull with machining balance marks on them brand new out of the box. The ones without them are usually within spec.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIrbstermcgee View Post
Talking to our parts guys, we can still get nitrated cranks. SOA says there still available.
They are not available. SOA has been out of the nitrided cranks since around May. I should know, since we ordered the last ten. The only cranks available are the 370 non-treated and the new 330 heat-treated ones.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:26 PM   #25
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We JUST got four in monday, so... I dont know.
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