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Old 08-22-2012, 03:29 PM   #26
KIrbstermcgee
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Just talked to the parts guys again. I know for a fact, we can still get the nitrated crank. Our warehouse shows hundred of them.
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:41 PM   #27
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Here's what I got when I ordered part # 12200AA390

They had it in stock @ Subaru Canada. And it's a JDM Ver 9 Spec C nitrided crank. Figure that one out.

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Old 08-22-2012, 06:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIrbstermcgee View Post
Just talked to the parts guys again. I know for a fact, we can still get the nitrated crank. Our warehouse shows hundred of them.
Was the part number you received from the warehouse the AA430 or the AA330 crank?
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:14 AM   #29
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I have seen a few of the oem nitrated cranks fail snapping at the #1 journal. Just putting that out there.
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:00 PM   #30
Subarenok
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WRick 12200AA390 from EJ207 block, not EJ257
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:12 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subarenok View Post
WRick 12200AA390 from EJ207 block, not EJ257
never heard of a version 9, 2.5L block either
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Old 08-23-2012, 01:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinscrollGT35R View Post
I have seen a few of the oem nitrated cranks fail snapping at the #1 journal. Just putting that out there.
Same here. You hear about it more often with the newer material/nitriding. Looks like an old non-nitrided crank is the best base piece to start with
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Old 08-23-2012, 06:54 PM   #33
teesutt
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anybody know if subaru uses a different crank for NA ej25 blocks as opposed to ej25 blocks meant for boost, or are they the same forged crank?
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Old 08-24-2012, 01:41 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teesutt
anybody know if subaru uses a different crank for NA ej25 blocks as opposed to ej25 blocks meant for boost, or are they the same forged crank?
Last I checked, they are the same
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:07 PM   #35
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Just got a Nitrided one Wed.. some are still around
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:37 AM   #36
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Still on the fence on this one... Modified OEM or Aftermarket
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:15 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Still on the fence on this one... Modified OEM or Aftermarket

Because racecar?

What will be the purpose of the build?
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:57 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
What will be the purpose of the build?
To not break

In all seriousness the car is used for product test. It sees a lot of dyno time, will see more and more track time, and my daily floggings.

The motor will be torn down regularly, but the hope is only for wear items.

On the crank my initial thought was to improve the characteristics of the OEM crank for wear longevity and slight improvement in strength via oiling and surface hardness improvements.

This in theory would be provide some longer term wear improvements over a standard OEM crank without the OMG price of a billet setup.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:07 AM   #39
...CHUCKLES...
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On my stock wrx crank:
240 crank - $310
Heat treating - $80
Nitride treating - $210
Cryo treatment - $80
Micro polish journals - $40
TOTAL - $720

Aftermarket - $1250-$3500

Minimum savings of $530

However you do get different style of cross drilling for better oiling in most cases, but not in all.

Depending on app. I would do a stock crank, but that's just me.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:32 AM   #40
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^ Yep similar to what I was thinking too.

How many rebuilds/miles you have on that setup?
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:22 PM   #41
...CHUCKLES...
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Sadly I do not have any miles or rebuilds yet on this one.

If all the treatments are good enought for tractor pulls then it should be good enought for me.

I did a before and after Rockwell on the crank, give me some time to find the paperwork on the hardness and I will post it up.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:04 AM   #42
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OEM cranks (ignoring the nitrided) have always done just fine by me. If going to nitride, I would suggest gas over salt bath but you really should have a like-size batch done in gas. It keeps the hardening more uniform.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:31 PM   #43
EROCS04SBRUSTI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ...CHUCKLES... View Post
Sadly I do not have any miles or rebuilds yet on this one.

If all the treatments are good enought for tractor pulls then it should be good enought for me.

I did a before and after Rockwell on the crank, give me some time to find the paperwork on the hardness and I will post it up.
yes waiting on this!!!
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:28 AM   #44
...CHUCKLES...
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Test was done at Gear Technology.
Ok the test was taken on the flat oil pump notch of crankshaft.

2005 wrx factory 240 crankshaft: Units shown in (Rockwell Hardness "C" Scale)

Before treatments: 23 HRC

After Heat Treat, Nitride and CRYO: 68 HRC


Now, what dose this mean? To my understanding it is just harder and makes it far more difficult to f-up the bearing surfaces, but I am sure there is more reasons than just that. As far as taking more abuse and more hp/tq am not sure. That would be more of a real world test than a lab test. I personally think.
(I might one day take one of my spare cranks and do a stress tenison test, but we will see.)

Just know that I am not a metallurgist, I am just some dude that works in the aerospace industry and has access to a lot of equipment and company's.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:05 AM   #45
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You happen to know what they brought the hardness up to before nitride?

Surface hardness will definitely increase longevity of bearing surfaces under extreme conditions.

Changing the overall hardness can increase strength, but reduce toughness. It will change the natural harmonics as well.

I really had no intention of thru heat treating, just deep surface hardness.

Cryo will also improve surface characteristics as well as a positive influence on strength.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:25 AM   #46
...CHUCKLES...
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^^^ As far as what they brought it up to. I do not know, I had Costa Mesa R&D do the treatments and I did not recive any paperwork with it. More than likely because I did not request it, but I will go over and ask on Friday or Monday (thats when i pick up my headers) if he has the record of it and will post it up.

Hope this all helps out.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:09 AM   #47
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^ yeah that would be cool info to have. Thanks!
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:36 PM   #48
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<--works in a large heat treat / induction hardening company for many different oem parts.

*disclaimer* I know a few things generically speaking, and have access to metallurgists on a daily basis, but am by no means a metallurgist myself.

Heat treating changes the case hardness of the steel by altering the surface micro structure, of course this is all subject to the depth, quench time, frequency, ect. After the initial heat treatment the parts can receive additional processes, most common in my shop is a tempering process which is done so the part so it retains some flexibility.

TLDR:
Without the post heat treat tempering operation, the part would be very hard on the "C" scale, but also very brittle.

With a tempering process:The part will retain most of the HRC given from the heat treat op, but will drastically reduce the brittleness, and internal stress created by the heat treat op.

If you guys have any questions, I would be happy to ask our metallurgists on your behalf.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:58 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatironsTuning.com View Post
First, the Non-Nitride crank has always been available, and its part # is 12200AA370.

The Nitride Treated crank did come around starting in 2009, and it has been superseded, but there was a botched supersession in the Subaru tape.

The Nitride Treated Crank was origionally a 12200AA430 which was supposed to go to the 12200AA330. But the 330 was somehow superceded to the AA370, so if you ordered a 430 or a 330, you would get a 370. And of course the 370 is not treated.

All of the 330's that we have received of late do appear to still be nitride treated, and are black in color. It is possible that their treatment has changed but I have not been able to get any solid confirmation on that.

Sorry for the Abbot & Costello, but hopefully that makes sense.

To further complicate matters, but for informational purposes, the split from the 370 non-treated crank start with build dates in September of 2008, and went to the 400, and they are not interchangeable (because the 400 is nitride treated, and the 370 is not). The 400 superseded to the 430, and in February of 2011, that superseded to the 330. So as far as we can tell, all the cars should still be getting a nitride treated crank, or at least a crank that has been treated some how, and is black in color.
Just ordered 330 trough Subaru and got 370 which was neither nitrided nor heat-treated.

Parts guy says that all 430's and 330's are now 370's but everyone on the internet says new ones are all 330's

I'm so ANNOYED by this!
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:30 PM   #50
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return it. It could have been stock on their shelf from a build they had.
Pick another dealer.
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