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Old 08-20-2012, 03:56 PM   #1
mikeydrives1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 262117
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2001 Forester
STi II type M

Default (04 STi) Loss of power/Boost so Lets talk about DAM not reaching 1.0

Hey all!
I wanted to start a discussion and ask questions regaurding the DAM (dynamic advance multiplier) values on the Cobb Accessport (sub 02 or newer). I have run into some issues of my own and am seeking advice from others to see if they have had similiar issues.


What started it:
Let me start off by introducing myself and my car. My name is mike and i drive an 01 Forester with a 2004 STi swap, tuned on an FP 68HTA. It has been running strong and fine for 7+ months now and has never given me any issues whatsoever. I take good care of it, keeping up to date with maintenence items and oil changes every 2500 miles.

About 2 days ago, i had 2 instances in a 24 hr period where the ECU must of detected some condition it didnt like, and pulled all timing and boost, so i was basically running off the wastegate spring pressure of about 7lbs. There were no check lights and the car ran smoothly, aside from the fact it would not build boost. The Wastegate duty cycle readout on the cobb read a constant 0%. Pulling off to the side o the road and turning the car off, then back on solved the issue, and both issues happened about 25 minutes into driving and after a few spirited sprints.

So like any concerned automotive enthusiast, i shot an email to my Tuner and hit the interwebs, searching for others who have experienced the same issue. A few worthy hits came up but no outstanding or concise answers from the responses, plus everyones issue seemed to stem from a different issue such as a bad or dirty MAF , discconected vac hose or a somewhat common 'Bad tank of gas' claim.
So i got under the hood and inspected everything as thoroughly as i could. I found nothing missing or out of place. I did however recently fillup at a station i dont usually get 93 octane from. So i drove my car down to a quarter tank and went and got refilled at my usual station (sunoco Ultra 93) .
Since this refill, the car has driven and boosted fine. It has been 2 days now of trial and error, and the car seems to be behaving itself whether im cruising normally, stop and go traffic or wide open throttle pulls through the gears.


However, a few questions do come to mind.
1.) Has anyone here ever gotten a bad batch of gasoline and experienced the same issue?
2.) I should be acheiving a DAM of 1.0, yet im only seeing 0.6 since i reset the ECU 2 days ago to get the car to start fresh again after refilling it with gas i know was good.
-To add to this, up until the issue, even during the issue, i never got a good look at the DAM readout because im still learning about all this stuff... so i cant say if the DAM was ever at 1.0 prior to the issue, so its hard for me to confirm if the issue existed before, or if it is directly related to a possible bad tank of gas i got.

With all of this being said, I can offer up a Datalog tonight and post it here if that will help. I watched the Cobb tutorial video on datalogging and have a good idea of how and where to do it safely. Perhaps someone here who has a much better idea of tuning can analyze it before i bring it back to my Tuner.
Dont get me wrong, i trust my and respect my Tuner highly. He has a good reputation and long list of people who vouch for his successes. He did an absolutey amazing job with my car and i could not be happier , but it is a pretty good distance to get to him, so it means having to set aside practically a whole day for it. He has requested i come back to him, but before i do, id like to try and find every possibility of what could be the root cause before setting up an appointment and making the daytrip. I cant tell you how thankful i would be if it turned out to be something very simple or basic.


Thanks for reading.
Michael.


Cliffnotes:
-Possible bad batch of gas caused 2 instances of pulled boost and timing. Not sure exactly of the cause but seeking advice of others who know about DAM's and where they need to be at.
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:22 PM   #2
notjustforshow
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Member#: 143277
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Location: Richmond
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05 STI PPP OBP
1098, Z1000

Default

Datalog would get the pros to come and comment, that's for sure.

As for never hitting DAM 1.0, it is entirely possible, as you suggest, that you may have never been at 1.0. I've been in this position myself before.

I've found that most users, can get to DAM 1.0 within a few minutes of reset, provided they have a highway on-ramp or safe area to accelerate in 3rd or 4th gear under boost. Usually have to do a short burst twice, and if no problems, DAM is 1.0 as per AP display.

One thing I would suggest is keeping the AP set to display DAM, get it to 1.0, then log a few cruises before doing hard pulls. You can then check your logs if there are any issues, such as knocks or timing being pulled. A few of the pros say this is not a useful log for them, however for you, it lets you see if there are any issues that manifest during regular driving (like if your DAM drops without being at 1.0 !).

If all looks good, then you can do a 3rd gear/4th gear WOT to redline and post here.

Hope that helps, I am a tuning noob, so I am only sharing noob advice :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeydrives1 View Post
Hey all!
I wanted to start a discussion and ask questions regaurding the DAM (dynamic advance multiplier) values on the Cobb Accessport (sub 02 or newer). I have run into some issues of my own and am seeking advice from others to see if they have had similiar issues.


What started it:
Let me start off by introducing myself and my car. My name is mike and i drive an 01 Forester with a 2004 STi swap, tuned on an FP 68HTA. It has been running strong and fine for 7+ months now and has never given me any issues whatsoever. I take good care of it, keeping up to date with maintenence items and oil changes every 2500 miles.

About 2 days ago, i had 2 instances in a 24 hr period where the ECU must of detected some condition it didnt like, and pulled all timing and boost, so i was basically running off the wastegate spring pressure of about 7lbs. There were no check lights and the car ran smoothly, aside from the fact it would not build boost. The Wastegate duty cycle readout on the cobb read a constant 0%. Pulling off to the side o the road and turning the car off, then back on solved the issue, and both issues happened about 25 minutes into driving and after a few spirited sprints.

So like any concerned automotive enthusiast, i shot an email to my Tuner and hit the interwebs, searching for others who have experienced the same issue. A few worthy hits came up but no outstanding or concise answers from the responses, plus everyones issue seemed to stem from a different issue such as a bad or dirty MAF , discconected vac hose or a somewhat common 'Bad tank of gas' claim.
So i got under the hood and inspected everything as thoroughly as i could. I found nothing missing or out of place. I did however recently fillup at a station i dont usually get 93 octane from. So i drove my car down to a quarter tank and went and got refilled at my usual station (sunoco Ultra 93) .
Since this refill, the car has driven and boosted fine. It has been 2 days now of trial and error, and the car seems to be behaving itself whether im cruising normally, stop and go traffic or wide open throttle pulls through the gears.


However, a few questions do come to mind.
1.) Has anyone here ever gotten a bad batch of gasoline and experienced the same issue?
2.) I should be acheiving a DAM of 1.0, yet im only seeing 0.6 since i reset the ECU 2 days ago to get the car to start fresh again after refilling it with gas i know was good.
-To add to this, up until the issue, even during the issue, i never got a good look at the DAM readout because im still learning about all this stuff... so i cant say if the DAM was ever at 1.0 prior to the issue, so its hard for me to confirm if the issue existed before, or if it is directly related to a possible bad tank of gas i got.

With all of this being said, I can offer up a Datalog tonight and post it here if that will help. I watched the Cobb tutorial video on datalogging and have a good idea of how and where to do it safely. Perhaps someone here who has a much better idea of tuning can analyze it before i bring it back to my Tuner.
Dont get me wrong, i trust my and respect my Tuner highly. He has a good reputation and long list of people who vouch for his successes. He did an absolutey amazing job with my car and i could not be happier , but it is a pretty good distance to get to him, so it means having to set aside practically a whole day for it. He has requested i come back to him, but before i do, id like to try and find every possibility of what could be the root cause before setting up an appointment and making the daytrip. I cant tell you how thankful i would be if it turned out to be something very simple or basic.


Thanks for reading.
Michael.


Cliffnotes:
-Possible bad batch of gas caused 2 instances of pulled boost and timing. Not sure exactly of the cause but seeking advice of others who know about DAM's and where they need to be at.
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Old 08-20-2012, 06:29 PM   #3
mikeydrives1
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Member#: 262117
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2001 Forester
STi II type M

Default

Thanks for the comment man!


Im a tuning newbie as well, but i have an open mind and desire to learn so much more.

Im going to see about getting a log uploaded later on, and then post it here, to let some much more experienced individuals have a look. Im going to wait till later when i have plenty of space and less crowding on the roads.


My gut instincts keep telling me the bad batch of gas caused a knock, so the ECU pulled everything back to be safe. The car was run to a quarter tank before refilling and hasnt displayed the issue since refilling, but perhaps that quarter tank hasnt been totally diluted out yet and i need another refill to see further results.


Ill keep you guys posted.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:18 PM   #4
mikeydrives1
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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2001 Forester
STi II type M

Default

Okay, heres the datalog of a 4th gear pull.

Just a tip, when i refueled the day before, i reset the ECU, so im not sure what parameters / learning curves it defaults to an abnormal number.

I took a screenshot because google docs wasnt cooperating with me, and messing up the layout.







I should add that i saw 1 flat 1.0 on the DAM readout earlier on in the day, after it was flatlining .6 before that. It changed as i was driving and doing some pulls. Later one when i went to log, it went down a notch to .9
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:46 AM   #5
notjustforshow
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Location: Richmond
Vehicle:
05 STI PPP OBP
1098, Z1000

Default

I think you may still have a boost leak? TD Boost error and your psi shows underboosting. What's the target for that turbo? 24 PSI @ 3.0K?
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:31 AM   #6
SkateAndDestroy
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JBP 04 Forester XT
PSM 02 WRX Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by notjustforshow
I think you may still have a boost leak? TD Boost error and your psi shows underboosting. What's the target for that turbo? 24 PSI @ 3.0K?
I wouldn't go by the Td boost error, I think its just the way the tuner set it up. At redline, its 4.5 when he is already running 19.5psi. There is no way he is intending to run 25psi to redline on pump with that turbo. His boost control tables probably say 24psi from spool up to redline. I think he is letting the boost taper on its own and is using a cap on total wastegaste duty (65).
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:06 PM   #7
SkateAndDestroy
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JBP 04 Forester XT
PSM 02 WRX Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkateAndDestroy

I wouldn't go by the Td boost error, I think its just the way the tuner set it up. At redline, its 4.5 when he is already running 19.5psi. There is no way he is intending to run 25psi to redline on pump with that turbo. His boost control tables probably say 24psi from spool up to redline. I think he is letting the boost taper on its own and is using a cap on total wastegaste duty (65).
It is possible he could have a small leak though. His AF Learning D range is -3.5(not shown). Not sure what his D range normally sits around though.
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Old 08-21-2012, 05:28 PM   #8
mikeydrives1
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Member#: 262117
Join Date: Oct 2010
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2001 Forester
STi II type M

Default

I dont think its a boost leak, although i wont rule the option out, i am open to all ideas.

My tuner did set a setpoint of 24psi during the tune. It doesnt see that very often since it has been hot this summer and this tune was done on a cooler day in the spring (70s as opposed to 90s and humidity).

In order to reach that number more efficiently, im aware ill need an EWG, TGV deletes and catless DP (race catted as is, crucial racing divorced DP) ... but on cooler nights when the air is dry, i def do see it get to 23.xx PSI on my cobb display.


For the time being i still have a .9 DAM indicated on my cobb... im still on the 1st fillup since the alleged "bad tank of gas" fillup, so i still want to run this down to a quarter and then refill it again from the same station i always goto and see if that makes up the difference. Im still suspicious of what may still be in the fuel system that wasnt diluted enough down.
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:12 PM   #9
SkateAndDestroy
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Member#: 133893
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Red Bank, NJ
Vehicle:
JBP 04 Forester XT
PSM 02 WRX Wagon

Default

Just curious, what are your other fuel trims reading, Learning A, B, and C?

Also what size diameter is the intake you have?
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:40 PM   #10
mikeydrives1
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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2001 Forester
STi II type M

Default

Ill have to check those out, not sure exactly.

And the intake is.... not sure... its similiar to the cobb. Nothing abnormally large or small.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:44 PM   #11
Quiksmith
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Updates?
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:04 PM   #12
mikeydrives1
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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2001 Forester
STi II type M

Default

Yeah, a batch of bad gasoline and a tune that was too aggressive on the 'high knock condition' dynamic advance table.

This single event is what prompted me to learn tuning on my own to begin with.
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