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Old 08-23-2012, 10:51 PM   #26
J.Gibbs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle
How do you guys feel about cleaning off the valves with a brass wire wheel? It should take the carbon off and make things nice. But could there be any side effects I'm not aware of?

lapping them a good idea?
Old toothbrush to scrub with whatever product you choose
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:58 PM   #27
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I use a wire wheel to do my valves, contact surfaces too. The carbon buildup on mine was way to adhered to use just a toothbrush. No side effects that I can think of, but I'm no expert. Then I water tested them (pour water down intake and exhaust ports respectively) to see if they leaked. Let them sit for five or ten minutes or more. On the driver's side head I think there's an EGR port that you have to plug if you're gonna test it. Only one exhaust valve and one intake valve leaked on mine, and barely a seep...so I didn't get a valve job done or even touch the valves beyond that.
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:14 PM   #28
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^ nice will do tomorrow. Can you use the wire brush to clean the pistons too?

I took off the rear plastic plate and am thinking of just reusing it. I cleaned everything really well, so some gray stuff should do the trick.

The rear main seal had a little bit of oil on it. Probably a tiny leak, so I don't know if I should risk trying to pry the RMS out or just leave it. It didn't look significant compared to the cover. Also its installed flush with the rear of the case. I read that pushing it in a tiny bit might help it seal. What do you guys think?

Also got the heads back from the machine shop, they ground 0.004" off, just within the grinding limit.

Also, how do you keep your bores from rusting when the engine is sitting? I sprayed them with wd40 but it looks like they're starting to get a bit brown.
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:53 AM   #29
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The plastic plate might be fine if you reseal it well. But it will never last as long as the metal versions.

I personally wouldn't touch the rear main. The oil on it might be from the rear cover, but even if it's from the rear main itself... if it's barely a seep, I wouldn't try to pound it in farther or install a new one.

The bores rusting is no big deal really, it's just surficial and it will be burned up upon ignition. Mine were sitting for a while, but it's kinda funny-the "flash" rust didn't show up till a very humid day, then it was all over everything.
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:30 PM   #30
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^ thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I ripped out the rear seal using Meaty's screw and hammer technique before I saw the post. Came out no problem and let no marks on anything. A new seal is only $11, so I figured what the hell as long as I'm getting the rear plate, might as well do this too.

Here are some pics of the progress:





It looks pretty good. I used a sanding block and some 1000 grid sand paper and ran it over the whole thing. Then followed it up with a green scrubby pad with carb choke cleaner. the only thing that slightly worries me is that you can see a little bit of the pattern on the cylinders. But I think it should be ok with a new HG.




and found some plastic ceran wrap in the home section of walmart that sticks to everything like it's shrink wrapped. It's perfect for sealig up a cleaned block:




So would you guys recommend spraying the HG with copper spray? I read that it's a good idea as it helps seal everything

Last edited by Bad Noodle; 08-25-2012 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:13 PM   #31
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Hey guys, so I've been doing a lot of research on some topics I thought I'd share:

Prepping the block:
According to subaru, there are only 2 proper ways to prep the block. 1.) use a scraper or 2.) use a 120 grit 3M™ Roloc™ Bristle Disc.

I dont like either option as its easy to gouge the block if the scraper is not square and the bristle disc costs like $100. So I will propose an alternative for the diy poor guy

use a straight edge with 400 grit wet sand paper. According to
http://www.treeringsociety.org/TRBTR...ol58_47-50.pdf
400 grit will yield about a ~22 Ra finish. The feltpro gaskets I will be using call for a 10-30, so this will be in the sweet spot. Other gaskets require different specs. I read something that cometics want >35Ra. So it's up to the gasket you use.

Copper Spray
this is definitely a no go for thick coats. For very fine coats it seems to be split 50/50. Some say it helps fill imperfections. Others say it gets in the way of sealing. It would not use it on a new block or a block that's been prepped by a machine shop. But on a block that has minor defects and you don't want to disassemble to get decked, I would give it a try.




Progress:
Cleaned and lapped valves




It seems that some of the valves are too pitted to be used. I ground them like hell but couldn't get the pits to work out. Gonna have to pick up 2 new ones tomorrow.
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Old 08-30-2012, 07:50 PM   #32
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Hey dudes, how far should the rear seal be pushed in? the lip on the seal is about 0.02" off the block surface:



feels like if I want to get it further in, it will be a fight
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:03 PM   #33
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I ended up pushing it a little further. enough so that I can feel the edge of the case with my finger ever so slightly as I sweep around. That put the flat part of the seal with the " groves ~3.6mm from the flat of the crank. looks like:

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Old 08-30-2012, 10:04 PM   #34
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Use the six star MLS headgaskets. A local renowned shop here uses them exclusively on the Ej25 Sohc with good results.
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:14 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangedlegacywagon97 View Post
Use the six star MLS headgaskets. A local renowned shop here uses them exclusively on the Ej25 Sohc with good results.
the fel-pro kit came in today. and I gotta say, it's really nice. It comes with everything. New valve seals, new intake and exhaust gaskets. New crank seals and crank caps. Even came with a tube of gasket maker to use where needed.

Speaking of which, do you guys put a little bit of gasket maker on the outside of the cam seals and cam caps? Might help the seal? If so, do you put it on, then push the seal in?
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Old 08-31-2012, 10:57 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Gibbs View Post
Book calls for "tri-bond" on the front cam mounts, the plastic filler piece for the cam slot in it the back of the head, and a small amount on the valve cover gaskets. Tri-bond is basically the same thing as the grey hardening permatex fyi
Ultra gray is good stuff but it is not the same as tri-bond. I will never use anything but tri-bond for certain jobs. Valve covers don't necessarily need it. I have seen some of the big shops move away from the ultra gray. Something about the gray stuff not vulcanizing properly.

Oh and your rear main looks good. It should be flush with the block/casting

Last edited by geronimo81; 08-31-2012 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:41 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Noodle View Post
Hey guys, so I've been doing a lot of research on some topics I thought I'd share:

Prepping the block:
According to subaru, there are only 2 proper ways to prep the block. 1.) use a scraper or 2.) use a 120 grit 3M™ Roloc™ Bristle Disc.

I dont like either option as its easy to gouge the block if the scraper is not square and the bristle disc costs like $100. So I will propose an alternative for the diy poor guy

use a straight edge with 400 grit wet sand paper. According to
http://www.treeringsociety.org/TRBTR...ol58_47-50.pdf
400 grit will yield about a ~22 Ra finish. The feltpro gaskets I will be using call for a 10-30, so this will be in the sweet spot. Other gaskets require different specs. I read something that cometics want >35Ra. So it's up to the gasket you use.

Copper Spray
this is definitely a no go for thick coats. For very fine coats it seems to be split 50/50. Some say it helps fill imperfections. Others say it gets in the way of sealing. It would not use it on a new block or a block that's been prepped by a machine shop. But on a block that has minor defects and you don't want to disassemble to get decked, I would give it a try.
Whoa, bought my Roloc for ~ $25. Got it at Napa. It is absolutely worth it as it will save you a ton of time and can be used for way more than just prepping the heads/block for headgaskets. The green one is the one you want (can't remember what grit that is). Seriously, this thing saved my life when I rebuilt my 205. Getting every surface perfectly clean and smooth in about 1/16th the time is the way to go.

I've used the copper spray when putting machined heads back on an un-machined block. I still sprayed both sides of the gasket as the finish on the heads was not as smooth as I expected.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:43 PM   #38
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+1 for the rear main being flush and no more. Push it too far and you can block a drain passage. I use ultra gray on the outside of the cam seals, no problems so far. It makes for a decrease in friction, so install carefully. I've also used copper spray on head gaskets and can't find any detriment.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:28 AM   #39
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^ and ^^ Thanks for the info. Gonna start putting things together tomorrow.

So gonna spray the gaskets and use ultra gray on the seal and plugs. Any other tips and trick to ensure success. (besides follow the manual)

The only thing I'm not too sure about is torquing the heads on. felt-pro outlines slight different instructions than the manual, so I might just follow their suggestion as I'm using thier gaskets.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:28 AM   #40
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^ and ^^ Thanks for the info. Gonna start putting things together tomorrow.

So gonna spray the gaskets and use ultra gray on the seal and plugs. Any other tips and trick to ensure success. (besides follow the manual)

The only thing I'm not too sure about is torquing the heads on. felt-pro outlines slight different instructions than the manual, so I might just follow their suggestion as I'm using thier gaskets.

Oh and the cam seals and rear caps just go all the way in? Not flush with anything?
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:32 AM   #41
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Make sure to put oil on the threads of the headbolts and on the washers. This will ensure that they torque evenly and do not bind in the aluminum. Ultra Grey will work fine.

Subaru has different procedures for the DOHC and SOHC motors. What does felpro say to do?
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Old 09-01-2012, 10:43 AM   #42
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Here is the difference between the two I found




It seems that the fel-pro instructions are looser than the subaru instructions. Could be that the subaru stuff is from the 05 sohc service man

Last edited by Bad Noodle; 09-01-2012 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:30 PM   #43
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Gonna start her tomorrow. Anything special I need to do in terms of priming the oil? Was gonna turn it over for a bit then start
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:19 PM   #44
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Unplug the fuel relay and crank it over for I bit. I'm not sure where it is in that car. It's above the right kick panel in my 04 rs with a green plug. Maybe that helps
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:33 PM   #45
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I was gonna pull the ignition fuse. Seems easier. But is there anything specific that I may be missing.

It feels like a rebuild so not sure if I can just prime, start, and drive, or if I need to do something else. Like let it warm up, then change the oil, or something along those lines.
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:57 PM   #46
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If you didn't replace any hard parts then oh do not need to treat it that way. Changing to oil shortly after may not be a bad idea though
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:00 PM   #47
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Awesome, thanks
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Old 09-20-2012, 07:17 PM   #48
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Well guys, started her up and everything ran fine. I have a CEL but not sure why yet, will figure it out later. But the big thing I'm having trouble a pretty big leak on the driver's side cam.



I'm guessing it's because it's not 100% straight. I did some measuring and there is a 0.040" difference in how far it's pushed in. What do you guys suggest? Try to even it out? If so, how?
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:45 PM   #49
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I would try evening it out if it isn't kinked where the leak is at. Take a square drive screw driver and push on the seal to even it out. I had the same issue and did that and no more leaks
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Old 09-21-2012, 03:37 PM   #50
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Thanks, will give that a try. I think part of the issue was that I didn't have a cam seal install tool. but a 1-1/4" lowes pvc pipe fits perfect. So I'll be using this not to get it square.
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