Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday July 7, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning > AccessPort

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2012, 09:22 AM   #1
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default 2012 WRX Stage 2 Datalog

Just got a Cobb catted DP on the car the other night and have a datalog to share. The DP is the only mod on the car right now. It looks like I am getting fine knock (-2.8!) under full load, as well as various other knock events.

I am getting within .8 psi of target boost at 17.4 psi max on the standard stage 2 93 octane map, however it looks as if boost is tapering excessively by redline. Wastegate duty never goes above 70% or so.

I'm worried by the numbers. Not sure if I should be, but I am. Can anyone shed some light on the datalog? Thanks in advance for taking a look!

Datalog
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by RuinerXL; 08-23-2012 at 09:28 AM.
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 08-23-2012, 10:03 AM   #2
subiebosch
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 155548
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wayne, MI
Vehicle:
2015 2500 Dmax
2011 WRX TP STG2 COBB DP

Default

your DAM is 0.81. When did you flash the map in? how many miles were you on the new map before taking the log? Its either a bad tank of gas, or the DAM values haven't had a chance to learn yet. The crappy gas might explain the many instances of knock that you are seeing.
COBB and other will chime in as well, hopefully with better insight.
subiebosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 11:01 AM   #3
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

The DP was installed and the stage 2 map flashed the night before the posted log was taken. The car has only been running with DP/stage 2 for a couple of days, but I should have a little under 100 miles on the map because I have a decently long work commute.

So the current theory is bad gas? I fill at Shell exclusively, and have heard they offer the best gas available in the area, but you never know. Thanks for the reply! Any ideas on next steps?
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 11:20 AM   #4
subiebosch
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 155548
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wayne, MI
Vehicle:
2015 2500 Dmax
2011 WRX TP STG2 COBB DP

Default

Drive it a little more, just regular driving, and take another log, or monitor your DAM and see if and when it goes to 1.0. Then once it gets there, take another 3rd gear pull. I know DAM not being at 1.0 for our cars is not good, I'm just not sure if its because you barely installed your map and you have a few miles on it or you have bad gas.

I can't see the DP installation being the issue...that would affect your boost, not knock, so I think we can rule that out.

When I first started doing this, COBB told me to drive the car and let all the values learn, and I'm pretty sure it was at least 100 miles before I saw my values stabilize.
subiebosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 09:17 PM   #5
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

Logged a few more runs, all showing knock, unfortunately. I drove the car until it was almost on empty today, but didn't get a chance to do a WOT run after I filled up a new tank. I picked up some Redline SI-1 and poured that into my tank before filling up, as well, so hopefully I can rule out the possibility of bad gas.

All of the logs below (except for the last one) are from BEFORE the SI-1 and new gas were put in. The last log is just regular driving, no WOT. Thanks for taking a look!!

WOT 1 (old gas)
WOT 2 (old gas)
WOT 3 (old gas)
Regular Driving (SI-1 & new gas)

Oh, and I have just about 160 miles on the flash at this point.
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 11:31 PM   #6
AuthenticAMD
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 212239
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Baltimore, MD
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy Spec B
QSM (stage 3.5)

Default

Give the logs public access.
AuthenticAMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2012, 11:33 PM   #7
AuthenticAMD
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 212239
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Baltimore, MD
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy Spec B
QSM (stage 3.5)

Default

Also add the A/F learning D value to the logs if you haven't already.
AuthenticAMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 08:30 AM   #8
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

The logs should now be accessible, sorry about that. I also did another third gear pull this morning (see log below). Looks like there's still lots of correction going on, even with new gas and SI-1. DAM remains at .81 after about 175 miles of driving on the stage 2 flash.

WOT 4 (SI-1 & new gas)
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 09:06 AM   #9
subiebosch
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 155548
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wayne, MI
Vehicle:
2015 2500 Dmax
2011 WRX TP STG2 COBB DP

Default

Wow, that's a lot of knock. I can't understand why your dam is 0.81. Stupid question but I assume you are using 93 octane? not 91 or something like that?
Is your map flashed on the real map and on real time as well? Did you by chance just flash the realtime only? Not sure if that would cause this.

There might be something mechanically wrong, so drive it gently (do not drive it hard anymore until other chime in here as well). Hopefully COBB will soon. You can also post you log on the COBB forums.
subiebosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 09:52 AM   #10
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

I am definitely using 93 octane gas, and the octane rating should have effectively increased with the use of SI-1. The map is flashed permanently, not just real time. I'm thinking of moving to the more conservative 91 or ACN91 map. I've cross posted on the Cobb forums and have a few replies there, so hopefully someone will have some insight soon.

This is a bit frustrating, though--a big part of the reason I went with the AP was because of the OTS tuning capability. Now I'm thinking that a tune specific to the car would be the way to go, but that seems like complete overkill for a car with only a DP. My understanding was that all of the OTS mapping is pretty conservative, but my logs say otherwise.

Last edited by RuinerXL; 08-24-2012 at 10:12 AM.
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 01:34 PM   #11
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

Based on advice from Cobb, I flashed the 91 and ACN 91 maps. Three more pulls below...flashed the 91 octane map and saw BIGGER corrections than with the 93 map. Can't make sense of this. Flashed the ACN91 octane map immediately after, and the log from a pull after that still shows knock.

It looks as if the ACN91 log looks the best of any I've taken so far, but I could be wrong. Since this is the most conservative map for stage 2, I'm at a loss as to how to proceed. Any ideas?

WOT 5 (91 map)
WOT 6 (91 map)
WOT 7 (ACN91 map)
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 04:13 PM   #12
AuthenticAMD
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 212239
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Baltimore, MD
Vehicle:
2008 Legacy Spec B
QSM (stage 3.5)

Default

If you reflashed then you've erased the A/F learning fields from the 93 octane run. But it sounds like you might have a pre-turbo boost leak that is causing you to run lean.
AuthenticAMD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 07:28 PM   #13
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

Thanks for checking out the logs. I reset the ECU earlier today and logged another pull on the ACN91 map, adding the cylinder roughness and A/F Learning D parameters to the log. Nothing registered for cylinder roughness, and it looks like the car registered less knock than before, as well.

DAM is now at 1, which looks to be an improvement, so it seems like I'm heading in the right direction, but can't quite get to the point where there aren't any timing corrections happening.

I'm beginning to feel like this is a bigger headache than the increase in performance is worth, especially if I'm going to have to run a super conservative map. The lastest log is below...thoughts? Custom tune? Back to stock?

WOT 8 (ACN 91 map)
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2012, 07:34 PM   #14
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

One thought--the oil was changed along with the DP install the other night. I checked the level yesterday and it was above the high level indicator. Could the knocking be caused by blowby from overfilling?
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 07:29 AM   #15
subiebosch
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 155548
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wayne, MI
Vehicle:
2015 2500 Dmax
2011 WRX TP STG2 COBB DP

Default

What do you mean above the high level indicator, by how much approx. 1/4 of an inch less, 1 inch?
Any news over the weekend, did anything change?

In your last log, as you said, your DAM is at 1 which is good, and you have a lot less knock which is good as well, but you are still seeing some instances of knock.
subiebosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 08:17 AM   #16
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

After reading into it a bit more, I seriously doubt the knocking could be caused by overfilling the oil. The indicator showed oil above the high mark, however, maybe about half an inch or so. My logic was that blowby from overfilling could effectively lower the octane of the gas I'm using and cause knock.

I didn't drive the car over the weekend, so I'm not sure if anything has changed--doubtful, though. I plan to flash the ACN91 LWG map today or tomorrow to be extra safe while I search out a solution. I don't want to do any lasting damage to the car.

At this point, since I'm basically out of options with the OTS maps, it looks like I will need to go for a custom tune and/or mechanical diagnosis.

I am still wondering why nothing registered for cylinder roughness in the last log, though I did get some knock. As AMD suggested, perhaps a pre-turbo boost leak?
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 08:48 AM   #17
subiebosch
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 155548
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wayne, MI
Vehicle:
2015 2500 Dmax
2011 WRX TP STG2 COBB DP

Default

A leak could definitely cause some weird issues. So checking for leaks, especially after a DP install is never a bad idea.
You could try (if you want to spend 85 bucks) a tune from Torqued Performance for you stage 2. Eric over there is extremely helpful and so far I have had no negative experience with his tune.
This might help before you get protuned and who knows, it might work well enough that you just stick with it. Keep us posted Sir.

Andrei
subiebosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:01 AM   #18
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

I was actually considering going with a tune from Torqued Performance, but they require the use of AccessTUNER Race, which is unavailable for OSX at this point. Looks like that option is off the table for me. At the end of the day, I doubt this is an issue that can be tuned out (based on the fact that I'm still knocking on very conservative maps). I've spoken with a tuner already and, beyond charging a flat rate for the tune, he indicated that he wouldn't charge me at all if the issue was mechanical and not tunable.

Unless anyone can think of something I've overlooked, I will just baby the car until I can get it into the shop to get looked at (and tuned, if there's nothing physically wrong).
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:05 AM   #19
subiebosch
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 155548
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wayne, MI
Vehicle:
2015 2500 Dmax
2011 WRX TP STG2 COBB DP

Default

Hmmmm...dang. Did COBB say anything else on their site, that might have some insight for you?
Can you use somebody's laptop to just download AccessTUNER and install the TP map? Then you don't need AccessTuner to look at the logs.
subiebosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:12 AM   #20
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

I've been going back and forth with COBB for the past few days. They are just having me dial back the maps time and time again to see if any of the knock is getting tuned out. Last I communicated with them, they asked that I flash the car to ACN91, reset the ECU, add the cylinder roughness parameters to the log and do a WOT run (that's the last log I posted here).

I will check into installing ATR on another computer. I'm not keen on doing a lot more WOT pulls while the car is knocking, though. And correct me if I'm totally off base, but don't the stage 2 ACN91 maps net less power than the stage 1 93 maps? So I'm making less power than I was before the DP was installed.

You gotta pay to play. Can't blame anyone but myself, but this stuff is just frustrating to have happen on a car that's only a few months old and has been taken care of quite well.
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:44 AM   #21
subiebosch
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 155548
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wayne, MI
Vehicle:
2015 2500 Dmax
2011 WRX TP STG2 COBB DP

Default

It is frustrating, I believe you man. But like you said you gotta pay to play. COBB OTS maps are usually pretty good, at least in my experience, and the TP maps are great, also in my personal experience.
I'm not sure the power differences in the maps. It still seems like stage 2 will net you more power, due to increased boost and such. But I could be wrong. I would do what COBB says, but like you said, I would try to avoid WOT runs, for now. If you can, I would still get the TP map. Perhaps buy the map, use someone else's laptop and give it a shot. I would also send the COBB log to Eric at TP so he sees what you are starting with. That's what I did.
subiebosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 08:04 PM   #22
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

Thanks for all the help, Andrei--much appreciated. I dialed it all the way back to the ACN91 LWG map to play it safe until things get sorted out. Was also on live support chat with COBB today; they are looking into my logs to see if they can figure anything out. Hopefully I'll hear back from them soon.

I'm planning on bringing the car in to a local performance shop on Friday afternoon to get a diagnosis on any mechanical issues. I will be grabbing a few gallons of 100 octane tomorrow as well, to hopefully put the bad gas idea to rest.

I didn't do any logging today, but kept an eye on the live data as I was driving, and noticed that the knock sum for cylinder 4 was much higher than any of the others. Not sure if this is false knock, because the sum increased with very little throttle input (such as getting the car moving from a dead stop). Also noticed a tiny bit of feedback knock at cruising levels (-1.4), but have read this type of correction is normal for our cars.

Hoping for the best--thanks again for the help!
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 07:17 AM   #23
subiebosch
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 155548
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wayne, MI
Vehicle:
2015 2500 Dmax
2011 WRX TP STG2 COBB DP

Default

Sounds like you got a good grip on things Sir. Keep us posted on how things turn out and good luck with everything.

Andrei
subiebosch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 08:36 AM   #24
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RuinerXL View Post
Thanks for all the help, Andrei--much appreciated. I dialed it all the way back to the ACN91 LWG map to play it safe until things get sorted out. Was also on live support chat with COBB today; they are looking into my logs to see if they can figure anything out. Hopefully I'll hear back from them soon.

I'm planning on bringing the car in to a local performance shop on Friday afternoon to get a diagnosis on any mechanical issues. I will be grabbing a few gallons of 100 octane tomorrow as well, to hopefully put the bad gas idea to rest.

I didn't do any logging today, but kept an eye on the live data as I was driving, and noticed that the knock sum for cylinder 4 was much higher than any of the others. Not sure if this is false knock, because the sum increased with very little throttle input (such as getting the car moving from a dead stop). Also noticed a tiny bit of feedback knock at cruising levels (-1.4), but have read this type of correction is normal for our cars.

Hoping for the best--thanks again for the help!
Knock sum higher is cylinder 4 is normal - it will also increment at low loads (such as idle) which is false knock and can be ignored.

I would definitely get a pressure or smoke test of the intake tract done. On a car this new, that is the most likely cause of issues after going stage 2.

Bill
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 10:28 PM   #25
RuinerXL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 69300
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2012 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

The plot thickens. Added a few gallons of 100 octane this afternoon and logged a WOT pull shortly thereafter...zero knock. Granted, this was on the ACN 91 LWG map and I only hit 14 PSI at peak boost.

Having filled at two different Shell stations, I was 99% sure bad gas wasn't the issue. I am leery of reflashing again until I have the car looked at. Thoughts? Log below.

WOT 9 (ACN91 LWG map)
RuinerXL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2015, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.