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Old 09-19-2012, 07:13 AM   #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette
What do you need 400 whp for anyways? Not like you can use that every day anyways.
I dont think you realize how stupid that comment was. First off it wouldnt be my daily driver, second there is a place not too far from me called summit point, its a track. 3rd, who cares if i do want to daily drive it?

M3s are daily driven? People dont need that power... i dont need my 3k sqft house, my family will be happy in 650 sqft open floor no walls. Dont bother with private school, public school is free. Why drive a subaru, maybe i should just get a 10k kia, its more practical.

Man jay leno, why do you have all those cars? Its not like your gonna drive them everyday.
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:07 AM   #527
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^For their segment, the STI is top for power though. I'd guess we'll see a modest bump in power for the STI but nothing major. We're talking about a rally based car where quick punches of torque are important, not a track/drag car by design.

There are other cars making more power in the muscle car group, but aside from $Texas Audi and Porsche nothing in the small AWD turbo segment really comes close.

Honestly, if Subaru did make a "super car" in the $65k range, I'd still go out and buy a used 911 Turbo.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:15 AM   #528
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Originally Posted by DjTrav View Post

Edit: a2cpc, just saw your post... you get it, thanks.
You don't want the STI that a2cpc wants! You seem to want the STI to be a scaled down $65,000 GTR, which I'm feeling. I really do not expect a big leap in performance over the outgoing generation. But I do expect significant differentiation in appearance and (HOPEFULLY) the level of interior quality/finish U.S. buyers of a $30-$40k car are used to. So I'm with you there.

I could see a topped out WRX and STI at $35k and $45k respectively without causing riots. If Subaru wants to grow into a more premium market, maybe the WRX can be their stepping stone? But it will take a few steps.

You need to consider getting an M3. The next gen will surely tickle your fancy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
What do you need 400 whp for anyways? Not like you can use that every day anyways.
This is a silly question, followed by a silly statement. Redact!
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:10 AM   #529
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A 65K scaled down GTR would be awesome, now that you mention it.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:23 AM   #530
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I could see a topped out WRX and STI at $35k and $45k respectively without causing riots. If Subaru wants to grow into a more premium market, maybe the WRX can be their stepping stone? But it will take a few steps.
I'll pass on a 35k WRX. The reason I'm looking at the WRX is the performance/utility for the price.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:29 AM   #531
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I'll pass on a 35k WRX. The reason I'm looking at the WRX is the performance/utility for the price.
I'm with ya on that. I think this target has worked well for Subaru, too. However, do you guys think with WRX/STi going separate ways from the Impreza that they'll aim the Impreza Sport / a future upgraded version towards the WRX drivers and take the WRX/STi up another notch in price?
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:30 AM   #532
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I'll pass on a 35k WRX. The reason I'm looking at the WRX is the performance/utility for the price.
I'd still count on a base WRX under $30k.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:55 AM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend_

I'm with ya on that. I think this target has worked well for Subaru, too. However, do you guys think with WRX/STi going separate ways from the Impreza that they'll aim the Impreza Sport / a future upgraded version towards the WRX drivers and take the WRX/STi up another notch in price?
Maybe... probably, most likely after release... to see how people react to prices etc.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:08 PM   #534
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I dont see subaru making a 35k wrx. that doesnt make sense. they would surely lose money on that. wrx is a poor mans sti and thered be no point in making one so expensive that the target consumer wouldnt buy.

I can see a top trim 40K sti because its already close. But highly unlikely esp in US. No point in making a little sporty 4cyl 40k car in a country obsessed with luxury. Thats bmw territory. lol

Looks like the company is turning more towards making cars pretty while keeping it close to roots (except brz, thats just pretty lol).

Not a subaru expert, just taking a step back, looking in.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:12 PM   #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myrt1987
I dont see subaru making a 35k wrx. that doesnt make sense. they would surely lose money on that. wrx is a poor mans sti and thered be no point in making one so expensive that the target consumer wouldnt buy.

I can see a top trim 40K sti because its already close. But highly unlikely esp in US. No point in making a little sporty 4cyl 40k car in a country obsessed with luxury. Thats bmw territory. lol
Yen vs dollar, inflation, etc. That could explain price increase if there was one. Gtr went from 75k to 96k in 3 years because of this, unless subaru makes the wrx and sti here... imports are tricky, not to mention taxes.

You look at our economy, just because you dont get pay increases doesnt mean things wont cost more over time. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:34 PM   #536
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Look my point is that 400 whp is not needed for the car to be fun and fast. The STI is already quick enough with 305 hp at the crank for almost anyone on the planet. Sure could it be faster yes but what are you going to sacrifice? Reliability, longevity? As it sits now the STI has enough power to be more than fine with the added benefits of reliability and longevity. If you want more power that is what the aftermarket exists for. Too many people are stuck on numbers. If numbers were the most important thing than people would be trading in WRX's and STI's for BRZ's and not regretting it one iota. Sure you're not gonna win your much prized stop light races however the driver feel and excellence of the chassis more than makes up for it. I've had plenty of fast cars in my life and I can honestly tell you that I've gotten more enjoyment out of my 2.5RS and the 90 Civic SI that that I daily drove for a while. Subaru is going to build a car that fits their standards and won't sacrifice reliability and longevity to do it. In the end the next gen WRX and STI will be better than the outgoing model, just wait and see.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:19 PM   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette
Look my point is that 400 whp is not needed for the car to be fun and fast. The STI is already quick enough with 305 hp at the crank for almost anyone on the planet. Sure could it be faster yes but what are you going to sacrifice? Reliability, longevity? As it sits now the STI has enough power to be more than fine with the added benefits of reliability and longevity. If you want more power that is what the aftermarket exists for. Too many people are stuck on numbers. If numbers were the most important thing than people would be trading in WRX's and STI's for BRZ's and not regretting it one iota. Sure you're not gonna win your much prized stop light races however the driver feel and excellence of the chassis more than makes up for it. I've had plenty of fast cars in my life and I can honestly tell you that I've gotten more enjoyment out of my 2.5RS and the 90 Civic SI that that I daily drove for a while. Subaru is going to build a car that fits their standards and won't sacrifice reliability and longevity to do it. In the end the next gen WRX and STI will be better than the outgoing model, just wait and see.
I dont think you know what you're talking about. One word for you, pistons.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:22 PM   #538
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That's your opinion. Yes I know there are some reliability issues but for the most part in stock form they are reliable given the performance you are receiving. Look man we disagree and thats ok. Different strokes for different folks.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:36 PM   #539
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Having owned a 2005 STI (all stock) and a 2011 WRX ("Stage 2") and driven a 2010 STI (all stock) for an evening, I can honestly say that all they need to do is shed about 200 or more pounds from the STI, at least. I do think they need to make it amazing compared to the WRX, but overall I felt more spunk from my 2005 STI and 2011 WRX than I did the 2010 STI. It's just a heavy sucker for being rally-inspired. It's partially what weighed on my decision to try a WRX instead of going with an STI again.

Now, for other reasons in lessons learned, I'd go for the STI, but in pure number-crunching the WRX is hard to beat.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:13 PM   #540
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I'll pass on a 35k WRX. The reason I'm looking at the WRX is the performance/utility for the price.
This is why I think a WRX should be closer to an impreza in engineering. Make the STI a whole new beast that would be easy to diferentiate and meaningful again.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:24 PM   #541
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Remember that STI is a trim on multiple models, not a standalone model. If there is an STI that is "a whole new beast" itself, that makes it hard to do a BRZ STI, Forester STI, Legacy STI, etc.

WRX should be the standalone model with the differentiation from Impreza, with an STI trim available.

And there should be an Impreza GT for those that want a sporty Impreza.

My two cents.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:00 PM   #542
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I recall reading that when Subaru announced the USDM that the Mitsu exec at the show grabbed his crotch in mock pain like he'd just taken a swift kick to the jimmy.
many jimmies of Mitsubishi were rustled in unison that day.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:17 PM   #543
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Having owned a 2005 STI (all stock) and a 2011 WRX ("Stage 2") and driven a 2010 STI (all stock) for an evening, I can honestly say that all they need to do is shed about 200 or more pounds from the STI, at least.
I agree 100%. I went from a 2006 STI (stage 2) to a stock '00 2.5RS and the first thought I had was "Wow, this is a feather compared to the STI" followed by "Make a new version of the STI that is this light and still has 300hp and you've just created the best car in the whole world." Amazing how much weight matters -- the 2.5RS doesn't work the tires nearly as hard as the STI does, and you can really feel it.

Quote:
Now, for other reasons in lessons learned, I'd go for the STI, but in pure number-crunching the WRX is hard to beat.
I'd be curious to know what the other reasons are. I'm going to get back into a WRX or STI soon, and it's hard to argue with the numbers. Just for the price alone I'd be tempted to grab a WRX and retro some HIDs & big brakes.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:53 PM   #544
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I agree 100%. I went from a 2006 STI (stage 2) to a stock '00 2.5RS and the first thought I had was "Wow, this is a feather compared to the STI" followed by "Make a new version of the STI that is this light and still has 300hp and you've just created the best car in the whole world." Amazing how much weight matters -- the 2.5RS doesn't work the tires nearly as hard as the STI does, and you can really feel it.

I'd be curious to know what the other reasons are. I'm going to get back into a WRX or STI soon, and it's hard to argue with the numbers. Just for the price alone I'd be tempted to grab a WRX and retro some HIDs & big brakes.
For me, it's the transmission that separates the two the most. Rootus makes a good point of WRX w/ big brakes and HIDs, but the transmission in the STI is such a huge upgrade over the WRX. Now, with the new architecture I'm assuming we'll see a new transmission. Perhaps the gap will close..
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:00 PM   #545
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Originally I thought the WRX would still be pretty influenced by the Impreza since the WRX Mule is on a modified 4th Gen Impreza. Both the Impreza and the new WRX run a 2.0 liter engine too, but I wonder if the 2-door design that most of us are expecting for the WRX would be too small for the size of the Impreza they tested on.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:09 PM   #546
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I'd be curious to know what the other reasons are. I'm going to get back into a WRX or STI soon, and it's hard to argue with the numbers. Just for the price alone I'd be tempted to grab a WRX and retro some HIDs & big brakes.
Quote:
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For me, it's the transmission that separates the two the most. Rootus makes a good point of WRX w/ big brakes and HIDs, but the transmission in the STI is such a huge upgrade over the WRX. Now, with the new architecture I'm assuming we'll see a new transmission. Perhaps the gap will close..
Mostly this, Rootus. I just went through two years of drama with my WRX's transmission and clutch. For the price I paid for all the hassle, having an STI would've made more sense. The only reason I didn't was because I wanted a sunroof and the STI Limited wasn't worth the price to me, although my little brother bought an STI Limited anyways. If I could've let go of the sunroof I would've got the STI base sedan and saved myself some headache, potentially.

No one really ever expected things to go wrong, but the bigger issue I have is the negative stigma of the WRX. Because of it's price point it generally is purchased by people of a different ilk compared to the STI. A higher-priced car tends to thin out who's in it for fun and who's serious about it. I was trying to be serious, but not too serious. If I was truly serious I would've got the STI, but knowing I wasn't going to track the car for a while and needed more of a daily driver, I compromised.

That's my observation over the years and after multiple Subaru ownership. Obviously there are exceptions and nothing is absolute concerning the type of person that purchases either vehicle, but I wouldn't mind the STI being more exclusive again and being closer to $38k or so for the base model if it was justified beyond what's been made available since 2004/2005 STI.
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:33 PM   #547
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Originally Posted by Reverend_ View Post
Originally I thought the WRX would still be pretty influenced by the Impreza since the WRX Mule is on a modified 4th Gen Impreza. Both the Impreza and the new WRX run a 2.0 liter engine too, but I wonder if the 2-door design that most of us are expecting for the WRX would be too small for the size of the Impreza they tested on.
Remember one of the first mules for the BRZ was the same car without a hood scoop.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:39 PM   #548
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Remember that STI is a trim on multiple models, not a standalone model. If there is an STI that is "a whole new beast" itself, that makes it hard to do a BRZ STI, Forester STI, Legacy STI, etc.

WRX should be the standalone model with the differentiation from Impreza, with an STI trim available.

And there should be an Impreza GT for those that want a sporty Impreza.

My two cents.
That actually makes a lot of sence, guess will have to wait and see.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:03 PM   #549
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Originally I thought the WRX would still be pretty influenced by the Impreza since the WRX Mule is on a modified 4th Gen Impreza. Both the Impreza and the new WRX run a 2.0 liter engine too, but I wonder if the 2-door design that most of us are expecting for the WRX would be too small for the size of the Impreza they tested on.

Subaru has said the new WRX will still use the impreza platform, just that it would be highly modified one. By highly modified it probably means a choped(shorter) version of the impreza platform. I dont get what you mean by saying the 2 door design would be two small? All that would change is a shorter drive shaft, easy fix.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:53 PM   #550
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I dont think you realize how stupid that comment was. First off it wouldnt be my daily driver, second there is a place not too far from me called summit point, its a track. 3rd, who cares if i do want to daily drive it?

M3s are daily driven? People dont need that power... i dont need my 3k sqft house, my family will be happy in 650 sqft open floor no walls. Dont bother with private school, public school is free. Why drive a subaru, maybe i should just get a 10k kia, its more practical.

Man jay leno, why do you have all those cars? Its not like your gonna drive them everyday.
Great post that seems to have been overlooked.
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