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Old 10-09-2012, 07:43 AM   #726
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Originally Posted by EtoS View Post
Still at people who think the WRX/STi will have it's own shortened chasis. Seriously, the whole point of the WRX/STi is about utility with performance. They may drop the Impreza name from WRX/STi but the chasis will be no different.
Yea, "" that WAS the purpose of the Impreza WRX/STI. I think it will be a WRX/STI XV just to add to the utility.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:45 AM   #727
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Good point, but we are forgeting that mule is still not a confirmed WRX test mule. The idea of an Impreza GT was thrown around.
^^Yep^^

Then again...note the date


Spy Shot: 2014 Subaru WRX coupe spotted testing

2014 Subaru WRX coupe spy shot Roger Hart
Is this the new 2014 Subaru WRX coupe? Subie officials say no, but this two-door mule was caught testing recently near the company's Ann Arbor, Mich.,-based research facility.

By: Roger Hart on 10/04/2012

High on many Subaruphiles' wish list is a new two-door WRX STI, and the Japanese manufacturer might just be working on such a model. A two-door WRX-looking, highly camouflaged mule was recently spotted testing in the Ann Arbor, Mich., area. Subaru has a research-and-development facility in Ann Arbor.

Subaru officials would not comment on the prospects for a 2014 WRX coupe, saying no such model is in the plans for the near future.

The mule could have been testing an engine and suspension package for the much-rumored, but not yet official, STI version of the BRZ.

Whatever it is, there was no mistaking the boxer-engine exhaust note, which is much more difficult to camouflage than the sheetmetal car body.


Get more car news, reviews and opinion every day: Sign up to have the Autoweek Daily Drive delivered right to your inbox.

Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...#ixzz28nqtZvh8

Last edited by a2cpc; 10-09-2012 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:18 AM   #728
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The idea of an Impreza GT was thrown around.
That ain't gonna happen.

FHI recently published its annual report for FY2012 (see http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/ir/report/ar.html) and it included a long message from Toshio Masuda, who is an FHI VP and Chief General Manager of the Subaru Product & Portfolio Planning Division. Here's an excerpt from that message:
Quote:
From a different perspective, the first- and second-generation Impreza display a sports-oriented concept that began with the development of Subaruís first pure sports sedan. Cultivating a high-performance image bolstered by successes in top categories of the World Rally Championship showcases yet another aspect of Subaruís brand value. At the same time, we have a strong desire as a manufacturer to expand customer categories for the new model Impreza and increase sales in global markets. As a result of our considerable research, we made a major decision to equip the new Impreza with a naturally-aspirated engine only. From a marketing perspective, we decided to move away from a strictly sport-oriented performance image featuring a turbo engine, for which we are known in the market. In terms of manufacturing, we chose not to incorporate turbo engines or other high-performance design concepts from the very earliest stages of development. Rather, we were able to utilize our resources as well as investment [to] more efficiently and successfully develop the new Impreza by focusing on the naturally-aspirated engine as a key characteristic of this model. Without a doubt, nothing is more important at the development phase than determining customer needs. As such, we realize that providing environment-friendly automobiles best meets customer needs and has been an important factor in the strong sales we have enjoyed.
That is why there won't be a turbo Impreza in the future, unless the engine is very small (i.e. 1.5L or smaller).
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:20 AM   #729
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Ooooohh....BRZ STI?!?...nice. Didn't Toyota announce that they were going to offer a turbocharged variant of the FR-S ?

Last edited by uspopo; 10-09-2012 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:15 AM   #730
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God forbid Subaru builds another WRX that's useable in daily life. Practical, sporty cars are taboo in the US.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:59 AM   #731
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Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
Yea, "" that WAS the purpose of the Impreza WRX/STI. I think it will be a WRX/STI XV just to add to the utility.
And yet no one can give me a solid source that says otherwise. Even the mule caught was an impreza chasis, yet everyone still clings on to false ideals. I spoke with one of the top SOA guys a few years back about the BRZ and how genuinely worried they were about sales cause coupes flat out have the worst sales records across the board.

The new frame is far better then the old. Why the hell would they spend what little R&D money they have to make a whole new chasis for what is their LEAST sold car?
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:58 AM   #732
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Originally Posted by EtoS View Post
And yet no one can give me a solid source that says otherwise. Even the mule caught was an impreza chasis, yet everyone still clings on to false ideals. I spoke with one of the top SOA guys a few years back about the BRZ and how genuinely worried they were about sales cause coupes flat out have the worst sales records across the board.
And look at how the sales of that coupe turned out.

People are just saying they hope the rumors were/are true about being separate from the Impreza. While it doesn't make the most sense in terms of Subaru saving money, it would allow them to develop the WRX/STi into more of a sports-oriented car rather than being an Impreza on steroids.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:42 PM   #733
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I wish Subaru would get the point that not every car in their lineup can be the best seller of their lineup.

worst sales record... oh, so they don't sell as well as Forester or Outback... not every Subaru has to post those numbers.

And NOBODY has suggested that they build a separate chassis for a Subaru coupe... EXCEPT TOYOTA, and then they did.

An Impreza-based coupe, would have used an Impreza chassis, with a bit of a body change above the floor pan... sort of like how 4 and 5 door Imprezas, and Foresters are different above the floor pan.

Subaru's performance offerings MUST go one of two ways, if they are to succeed with enthusiasts.

WRX and STI have to either be everything to every enthusiast, and be a value-based world-beater, in terms of performance... (especially if the looks aren't great, the tech will have to be strong enough to overcome the lack of looks that WRX and STI usually LACK) and also the most practical performance car on the market under 40 thousand dollars.

Or

WRX and STI will have to be focused on being JUST being great AWD turbocharged performance cars (power and grip), and nothing else. Like BRZ is with handling performance. Little practicality... and affordable enough that it can be profitable with fewer units sold.
Part II: The rest of the Subaru line gets performance trim cars. XV Crosstrek, Forester, and Legacy then all get performance models equivalent or better than WRX, or possibly STI-level, to amortize the costs of the advanced drivetrain equipment across the whole line, and offer customers more practical options than the more highly focused WRX/STI.

I think the second option is the better choice, because I am a proponent of automotive diversity, rather than trying to compromise ONE vehicle to try to appease lots of different roles, and not doing any of them truly well.

Either way, the next WRX and WRX STI are going to have to be something really special to keep flying the flag of Subaru AWD performance, by itself, or with a cadre of performance Subaru siblings of other nameplates.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:57 PM   #734
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And look at how the sales of that coupe turned out.
It's been on sale for less than six months in limited (restricted) numbers, so I can't see how the BRZ is some kind of big seller. What are they aiming for, ~5000 per year?

Let's see how it's doing in year three or four.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:17 PM   #735
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Miata is not Mazda's volume seller, either. Yet it continually sells in low volumes enough to justify itself.

I want something other than BRZ/FRS... Something that this mentality is preventing from being offered for sale. I still hope BRZ/FRS sells and is continued to be offered to those who do want it. It doesn't have to be hundreds of thousands of units a month.

Not every car has to be a zillion-selling appliance, nor should they all be. Toyota had to enlist Subaru's help once they figured that lesson out by experience... because Toyota didn't have any affordable RWD performance chassis left that they could use after they had killed them all, because they didn't sell as much as Camrys and Corollas.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:34 PM   #736
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Still at people who think the WRX/STi will have it's own shortened chasis. Seriously, the whole point of the WRX/STi is about utility with performance. They may drop the Impreza name from WRX/STi but the chasis will be no different.
Isnt the BRZ on a modified/ shortened Impreza platform? Why couldnt they use that instead? Anyways this idea of a smaller/shorter, yet wider WRX dint come from us, it came from Subarus limited press interviews and such.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:47 PM   #737
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And yet no one can give me a solid source that says otherwise. Even the mule caught was an impreza chasis,
You could tell what chassis it had from the picture? You mean the black sedan picture? You mean the sedan that looks incredibly close to the sedan in this pic except the new mule has a scoop?


The one that became the BRZ?

Do you have any solid sources on your theory? Can you share? Can you explain why Subaru has been saying, for quite some time now, that the new WRX/STI wouldn't be based on the Impreza?
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Old 10-09-2012, 04:51 PM   #738
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Maybe the real reason Subaru and Toyota always shoot down any talk of a turbo BRZ/FRS is because a 2 or 3 door WRX is in the works, and they were reserving that territory for it? Meh

Still I can't imagine anything smaller than the BRZ, which is still probably 30 inches too big in every dimension for WRC except height. In a few years they'll be running Kei cars...
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:15 PM   #739
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Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
You could tell what chassis it had from the picture? You mean the black sedan picture? You mean the sedan that looks incredibly close to the sedan in this pic except the new mule has a scoop?


The one that became the BRZ?

Do you have any solid sources on your theory? Can you share? Can you explain why Subaru has been saying, for quite some time now, that the new WRX/STI wouldn't be based on the Impreza?
I'm talking about this very sedan and not the one that looks nothing like the one you just posted:



Look at headlights, look at the little section of window by the side mirror, the roof line, and door line. They are all different. You must be delusional to think that is the same car.



I have no sources outside of common sense and history. You guys have no sources but false hopes and car magazines cherry picking words and statements and twisting them. Look into the costs involved to change even a single sheet of metal in a unibody frame. We're talking about molds that cost $500k each for a single piece of metal that is later welded together. Don't forget costs in crash testing, having to deal with people not being happy about rear leg room(one of the most common complaints among subaru owners), etc etc.

You see subaru dropping impreza name from WRX/STi. Big whoop. It doesn't change anything. Just look at the damn test mule in the picture above and tell me that's a BRZ again.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:26 PM   #740
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It is an FA20DIT test mule of some kind.

EtoS is right, The BRZ test mule was far more chopped up, in addition to being a chopped up GR, not a 12 Impreza at all.

The BRZ test mule also had a blocked up hood scoop, not an open one.

However... just as the BRZ test mule gave away NOTHING to the appearance of the final BRZ...

The WRX test mule may not give away anything as to the appearance of the next WRX.

And both being AWD... the chassis doesn't need to be chopped up to re-locate the engine, and have a completely different transmission vs. a Subaru transaxle. BRZ Mule was required to be far more chopped up and re-connected.

An Impreza-based mule with a hood scoop grafted into the hood doesn't necessarily give away the next WRX's looks.

It doesn't necessarily mean that the WRX won't look like an Impreza with a hood scoop, either.

It may not even be a chassis mule of anything... it could simply be an FA20DIT power train test mule for any number of Subaru models that could get that engine.

Too early to tell.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:41 PM   #741
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:50 PM   #742
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Just to make it abundantly CLEAR.

This:


and this:



Are definitely NOT the same vehicle.

Not all black painted Subaru test mules are the same.


The one based on the 2012 Impreza, with a hood scoop on it, is testing Subaru's ONLY new generation turbo engine from this point forward... the FA20DIT engine. Unless it is possibly it's little sister, the pretty much theoretical and public-as-rumor-only FA16DIT 1.6 liter variant.

It is not in any binding way establised that either test mule shown above bear any resemblance to the appearance or even geometric dimension of any forthcoming Subaru production models, other than the 2012 Impreza 4-door that the second mule is obviously modified from.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:51 PM   #743
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Originally Posted by EtoS
Still at people who think the WRX/STi will have it's own shortened chasis. Seriously, the whole point of the WRX/STi is about utility with performance. They may drop the Impreza name from WRX/STi but the chasis will be no different.
Look at WRC. That is the point if the World Rally eXperiment. The car must get smaller and lighter to come back (with rule changes). We aren't even competitive in GRC or XGames vs the Fiestas.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:56 PM   #744
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
The one based on the 2012 Impreza, with a hood scoop on it, is testing Subaru's ONLY new generation turbo engine from this point forward... the FA20DIT engine.
There's also a new 1.6L turbo (and presumably the turbo diesel will continue into future generations).
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:58 PM   #745
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Look at WRC. That is the point if the World Rally eXperiment. The car must get smaller and lighter to come back (with rule changes). We aren't even competitive in GRC or XGames vs the Fiestas.


Good one!

Oh.. you were serious..
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:06 PM   #746
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Just to make it abundantly CLEAR.

This:

Are definitely NOT the same vehicle.

Not all black painted Subaru test mules are the same.

The one based on the 2012 Impreza, with a hood scoop on it, is testing Subaru's ONLY new generation turbo engine from this point forward... the FA20DIT engine. Unless it is possibly it's little sister, the pretty much theoretical and public-as-rumor-only FA16DIT 1.6 liter variant.

It is not in any binding way establised that either test mule shown above bear any resemblance to the appearance or even geometric dimension of any forthcoming Subaru production models, other than the 2012 Impreza 4-door that the second mule is obviously modified from.
Hip I don't know if you were referencing my post, But I was talking the white sedan in the 4 mule pic and the recent WRX mule testing in Death Valley. I thought they looked similar.

What I was trying to get at is no one knows what the chassis is...shortened Impreza or lenthened Brat, no of us knows.

EtoS is having no problem ridiculing us for having a preference with no proof, while at the same time he has no proof of his opinions either.
He uses "common sense and history" as his basis. If that were the case Subaru never would have produced the TX, SVX, Brat or the BRZ.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:14 PM   #747
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Look at WRC. That is the point if the World Rally eXperiment. The car must get smaller and lighter to come back (with rule changes). We aren't even competitive in GRC or XGames vs the Fiestas.
Maybe subaru just doesn't care about WRC anymore compared to giving the customers what they want? And no- a coupe is not what most people want, they have the data to prove that.

I loved my 06 WRX, great car with few flaws. Then I got the 2008 STi. I love this car 10x more then my old WRX. The new impreza chasis is suppose to give more room, lighter and stiffer. What the hell is not to like about that?

I always hear people cry and cry about the GRs feeling big and heavy and slow. News flash- the GR outright murders the GDs in performance due to all the little changes from bigger wheels, better rear suspension, small engine tweaks, longer gears, etc etc. Oh yeah- a speedometer that is accurate doesn't really help the GR since the GD even at 65mph is roughly 5-6mph off and at 80 is about 8mph off(says 80, you're really doing 72).

Point being, it will be a better car for all the right reasons. Lighter, stiffer, more room, potentially better engine with DIT. Progression, can't fight it no matter how many CRXes you throw at it.

Last edited by EtoS; 10-09-2012 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:25 PM   #748
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What I was trying to get at is no one knows what the chassis is...shortened Impreza or lenthened Brat, no of us knows.

EtoS is having no problem ridiculing us for having a preference with no proof, while at the same time he has no proof of his opinions either.
He uses "common sense and history" as his basis. If that were the case Subaru never would have produced the TX, SVX, Brat or the BRZ.
So no one has seen the center of the earth, it doesn't mean we can't formulate educated guesses to come to a solid conclusion.

My "opinions" come from the fact that WRX/STi has always used the Impreza platform. This is done due to saving money, lots of money. I forget the exact number but WRX+STi sales make up *I THINK* 7-10% of all IMPREZA sales. That is a very small number. To make a whole new chasis for what essentially is their worst selling car 2nd only to the Tribeca, why would they take in so much cost to make such changes?

And again the worst selling cars for every automaker by a large margin are coupes. So why spend the extra coin to make it less appealing to the public? Here's another problem most refuse to deal with: 99% of all WRX/STi owners couldn't even drive a Yaris to it's limit. Everyone talks about the great benefit they'll get from a coupe WRX/STi and how it'll be the "sickest wickedest badassest ride evaaaarr!!" yet couldn't possibly squeeze out every last bit. So who the **** cares if making it a coupe could make it a better car, most of us still wouldn't be able to eek out that performance edge out of it anyway.

And even if we could, it would be whole heartily outright retarded to do that on the street. How many WRX/STi owners actually take their cars to a track anyway? Not many. We use it for going to work, out to the store, traveling and etc. Subaru is just making a balance between utility and sporty and they are giving us a bit of both in the form of lighter, more stiff, more room. What the hell is not to like about that? Oh yeah the prospect of having a useless backseat



So A2cpc, how about you give a detailed explanation as why you think it'll be a coupe regardless of all the reasons I outlined. And sorry- having a few(very few) people with deep desire to have a 2door AWD subaru is not enough for subaru.

Last edited by EtoS; 10-09-2012 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:37 PM   #749
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Etos, no one said the next WRX will be derived from a whole new platform. That doesnt negate a coupe or 3 door possibility either, just look at the BRZ. I forget which press release it was, I am sure some on here has the link. Subaru came out and said they will be realeasing a new small sportscar. BRZ was already out and revealed by then so that "sports car" is the next WRX.
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:46 PM   #750
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Etos, no one said the next WRX will be derived from a whole new platform. That doesnt negate a coupe or 3 door possibility either, just look at the BRZ. I forget which press release it was, I am sure some on here has the link. Subaru came out and said they will be realeasing a new small sportscar. BRZ was already out and revealed by then so that "sports car" is the next WRX.
a wrx or sti are not sports cars at its core definition, the BRZ is.

ETOS poined out exactly WHY there is absolutely 0 need for a coupe wrx or sti.

and the BRZ is PROOF that they created a coupe for the masses, and don't need to make even more coupe variants when one is readily available.
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