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Old 08-25-2012, 05:24 PM   #1
lj8915
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Default Don't understand the "don't put HID's in halogen projectors" thing

A friend of mine just got some $40 HID's for his 2011 wrx. He put them in his stock halogen projectors and they look awesome. They are much brighter than my H9 swap and don't produce any more glare than my h9's do (if you park them side by side and shine the lights on a wall, we have the exact same glare pattern above the cutoff line, except his is just a tiny bit brighter. And he drove the opposite way as me and it wasn't blinding or irritating at all.

So, if I may ask, where does this hate come from? Obviously a retro is MUCH better, but HID's in the stock halogen projectors produce the same light, glare, etc., but just brighter. I don't understand.
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:28 PM   #2
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http://i45.tinypic.com/1sxx5i.jpg
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2316388
First picture is glare coming from a PnP kit inside the regular 2011 wrx halogen projectors.
The link is a similar discussion that you might be interested in reading, and furthermore comparing.
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:55 PM   #3
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you dont know anyting about or understand anything about optics and lighting and that is why you dont understand....anything

way too common around here about many things, actually

that is why we see so MANY stupid cars running around with the owners not understanding why we are laughing so hard at them for being stupid

lights done wrong blind oncoming traffic and THAT is BAD JUJU
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lj8915 View Post
So, if I may ask, where does this hate come from? Obviously a retro is MUCH better, but HID's in the stock halogen projectors produce the same light, glare, etc., but just brighter. I don't understand.
It's 3x brighter (approximately). So 3x more glare. What could the problem be? Glare goes into the eyeballs of drivers coming at you.

This is not ****ing rocket surgery! read the other 1235413461363156731564316513426 threads that already exist. Or don't (and you won't, you'll read the 3 replies that say "hid's are fine, mine work great" and say "good enough")
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:59 AM   #5
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I've never seen hids be such a controversial topic in any other forum lol.

Thanks for the info but it's hilarious how angry some of you get over this.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:21 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lj8915 View Post
I've never seen hids be such a controversial topic in any other forum lol.

Thanks for the info but it's hilarious how angry some of you get over this.
that is because kiddies wanna be k00 and dont care that they are blinding people at night
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Old 08-26-2012, 04:26 AM   #7
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Or maybe kiddies want better light output without spending 300+ on a retro?

Now don't get me wrong, I was just like all of you before I saw my friends lights. Much brighter than my h9's and no blinding effect when he was driving opposite way as I was (if it doesn't blind me I don't see how it would magically blind others). That's why I made this thread...I was just curious why people seem to absolutely hate them.
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Old 08-26-2012, 04:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lj8915 View Post
Or maybe kiddies want better light output without spending 300+ on a retro?

Now don't get me wrong, I was just like all of you before I saw my friends lights. Much brighter than my h9's and no blinding effect when he was driving opposite way as I was (if it doesn't blind me I don't see how it would magically blind others). That's why I made this thread...I was just curious why people seem to absolutely hate them.


but kiddies are dumb and know nothing about not blinding people...which is WRONG as it can kill people

this has been covered here hundreds of times.....and it wont magically change because YOU want it to or claim it to be different
because it isnt different

YOU just percieve it to be different....with NO education or knowledge of optics or lighting or anything that is pertinent to the issue at hand

so, in the end....it is bad 99.9% of the time....and that is one grain of sugar in a boxcar full of salt

and you aint sweet....
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:12 AM   #9
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I've been running a kit for over 3 years now. Nobody has flashed me.




Quote:
Originally Posted by lj8915 View Post
Or maybe kiddies want better light output without spending 300+ on a retro?

Now don't get me wrong, I was just like all of you before I saw my friends lights. Much brighter than my h9's and no blinding effect when he was driving opposite way as I was (if it doesn't blind me I don't see how it would magically blind others). That's why I made this thread...I was just curious why people seem to absolutely hate them.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:08 PM   #10
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Sooo.... then why do Canadian 2012 2.0 limited Impreza's come with Xenon HID bulbs in the same reflector housings as the halogen versions?
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by monkeyracer View Post
Sooo.... then why do Canadian 2012 2.0 limited Impreza's come with Xenon HID bulbs in the same reflector housings as the halogen versions?
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyracer View Post
Sooo.... then why do Canadian 2012 2.0 limited Impreza's come with Xenon HID bulbs in the same reflector housings as the halogen versions?
s000000ooooooooooooo....YOU are the engineer here.....all phD'd and ****

YOU tell me

simple answer is that they figured out how to make ONE housing work with both kinds of bulbs


kiddies dont have the mental horsepower to engieer that on their own

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Old 08-26-2012, 06:18 PM   #13
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Living in So. California, I can tell you that If i were to flash every idiot on the road with badly done HID kits I would have wore out my high beams. Just because you don't get flashed does not mean that you aren't blinding other drivers.
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:41 PM   #14
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The 05' STI's comes with a reflector base HIDs but that doesn't mean the reflectors on those are the same as the regular 05' Imprezas. Factory reflectors that are made for HIDs are completely different from the halogens ones. It might look the same from just looking at the headlights but its not.
Quote:
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Sooo.... then why do Canadian 2012 2.0 limited Impreza's come with Xenon HID bulbs in the same reflector housings as the halogen versions?
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:45 PM   #15
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http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/show...d-fail-gallery here are a bunch of good examples of failed HID beams and glares. Thanks to all the idiots that uses pnp kits that now there's laws against aftermarket HIDs. There's a pro and con on this new law banning aftermarket HIDs. The pro is, cops can start cracking down on those idiots that uses pnp kits. The con is, now with people that properly do retrofittings, they'll still get a hard time from the law just because its aftermarket.

Last edited by JDMSTA; 08-26-2012 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 08-26-2012, 07:45 PM   #16
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Let's clarify this.

If you are going to perform a true HID conversion using a quality, full-lamp assembly, then that's great.

If however you are referring to a so-called 'HID kit' that is simply a ballast and a bulb that you fit into the existing headlamp assembly, then this is not great; it's bad.

Given what is available, a $40 set falls under the latter, not the former.

Put differently: buy the latter and I would be happy to take out your headlamps or possibly run you off the road.
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
s000000ooooooooooooo....YOU are the engineer here.....all phD'd and ****

YOU tell me

simple answer is that they figured out how to make ONE housing work with both kinds of bulbs


kiddies dont have the mental horsepower to engieer that on their own

Yes, actually, I am an engineer... Working on my Master's Degree in Mechanical Engineering right now from Colorado School of Mines...

The only thing that would change the way light bounces off the reflector is the distance from the focus point. So, if the halogen's are a certain distance, and the HID bulb is a different distance (which is highly likely with PNP kits) then it would change the reflection pattern.

Anyone have a flashlight with adjustable beam? Same theory; as you turn the head of the flashlight it moves the point of light closer to the focus point, narrowing the beam.

Sooo, if Subaru made a different reflector for the HID in the Canadian Limited, that would make sense, but if they were going through the effort to design a different housing, they would have likely gone projector (since they can grab those from the existing parts bin, and spend less money than designing and manufacturing new housings.)

Here's a pic of the beam from a reflector based HID 2012:



vs "Proper Retrofit" same generation, although parked much closer to the door.



The cutoff is definitely sharper on the retrofit, but the tiny amount of glare above the cutoff line in the first pic doesn't look like that big of a deal. Maybe a small spacer to move the bulb back a tiny bit closer to the focus point will correct the cutoff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-E View Post
Let's clarify this.

If you are going to perform a true HID conversion using a quality, full-lamp assembly, then that's great.

If however you are referring to a so-called 'HID kit' that is simply a ballast and a bulb that you fit into the existing headlamp assembly, then this is not great; it's bad.

Given what is available, a $40 set falls under the latter, not the former.

Put differently: buy the latter and I would be happy to take out your headlamps or possibly run you off the road.
The above first picture is the $40 kit (not my vehicle, btw) and the second pic is the retrofit. Beam pattern looks pretty close to me.

The reason so many reflectors are not good ideas for HID pnp kits is that the point of light is a different distance compared to the halogen version.



Notice how the HID bulb is longer than the standard bulb? That's likely the cause of ALL the glare on pnp HID kits.
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:34 PM   #18
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Funny, I happened to have this page in my Photobucket album open..





\

I did Retrofits under contract for a vendor here on NASIOC for a while between 2007-2009. I saw damage like that on a regular basis.
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyracer

The only thing that would change the way light bounces off the reflector is the distance from the focus point.

.
No offense but, no. There are many facors in play. It is not like you have a single laser beam bouncing on the reflector. The light source (for both HID and halogen) is very complex, and also completely different between hid and halogen. What you say would be true if the light source was an infinitely small dot from where all the light would be emmited, but it is not the case.

3x higher lumens throw 3x more lights in the squirrel finder areas, which should not receive that much light. This is glare. The large square boxes above cutoff in your pics are glare. Also the different light source will send light at places where the halogen filament did not, because the hid capsule arc is completely different shape than halogen bulb. This can be a stray of light here and there, depending on the reflector design. This is a second cause of glare.

I doubt the reflectors are the same when you have dealership hid option installed. Without having searched for it, I am almost certain they use an identical housing except for the inner reflector part, designed for the hid capsule. This is the only part thst really needs to be different, for reflector type (like they did on 04-05 impreza vs the hid in STI) How would you fit a D2S capsule in a halogen housing anyway ? Lol

There is no way to design a reflector (or bowl in projector type) to handle (correctly) both hid and halogen at the same time. It is impossible.
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:37 PM   #20
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vision.dynamix

Im curious as to how long it took for those pits to form on the halogen reflectors, would you happen to know the specs of the bulbs/ballasts that caused the damage, the reason I ask is because I have hid's for high beam, they've been on for about two years and I haven't seen any signs of that problem, not that im disagreeing with you at all, I just didn't want to retrofit the highs though my lows are
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alt14 View Post
vision.dynamix

Im curious as to how long it took for those pits to form on the halogen reflectors, would you happen to know the specs of the bulbs/ballasts that caused the damage, the reason I ask is because I have hid's for high beam, they've been on for about two years and I haven't seen any signs of that problem, not that im disagreeing with you at all, I just didn't want to retrofit the highs though my lows are
That particular set was with a DDM Tuning 35W H1 kit, after about 6 months of use IIRC. Tearing through headlights, I often saw damage like that, and after asking the owners, Ive found the damage to start as early as a couple months!
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:57 PM   #22
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Thanks ^

I did ask Trs about this and they said it wouldn't affect the high beams reflector for four or five years under normal use, if I start to notice though I might just go through with a quad retrofit
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:04 PM   #23
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Well, for the most part, you use your high beams a tiny fraction in comparison to the low beams.

Thats a second point..HIDs dont like being flashed, thats why theyre not used for high beams.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:11 PM   #24
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Well rarely ever need to flash them and if I do, the projectors bulbs don't need to warm up. Just an old ballast I had laying around from an old retrofit years ago I thought id try
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:21 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lj8915
I've never seen hids be such a controversial topic in any other forum lol.

Thanks for the info but it's hilarious how angry some of you get over this.
Well the ones getting their panties in a bunch are right. So I guess having a lot of them on this forum is a good thing. Its just that people are getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over.

Last edited by frederik; 08-27-2012 at 12:29 AM.
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