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Old 01-21-2013, 06:06 PM   #976
_davin
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It looks very good, and it's clearly cbr in person, much better than the usdm red.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:13 PM   #977
Nomadgene
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Alignment at Continental. Got to see Jake, Vern and Derek. Kaitlin popped in too.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:44 AM   #978
cosseywrx
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New wiper blades!

Anyone else always firget how the old ones come off?? Sheesh
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:50 PM   #979
AKSubieDubie
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Default Lithium Battery

Hey guys. Been awhile since I've posted much here
I put together a sweet ~5-6 lb lithium battery with 960 amp capacity for 10 seconds then 540 continuous until drained. Should be something like 500 - 600 cold cranking amps and It's done great so far at -10f without being warmed.

Took out a stock size 32lb battery + probably ~3lb of mounting hardware and used the existing 4ga wire running to the trunk to put it under driver's seat. I set it on top of a welding pad just in case, and I made a Lexan case for it.

I also put a battery heater in there with a diode in-line to cut power in half from 60w to 30w so it doesn't get too hot.

Cranks over faster due to being ~13-14 volts at full charge instead of 12.5ish. This lithium chemistry is much safer than LiPolymer and won't catch fire or experience run-away charge. Supposedly also has higher charge efficiency than your standard Lead-Acid battery (like 90-95% vs 80ish?)

All in all I think it was well worth the effort of making it. Saved ~25lb and centralized mass


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Old 01-22-2013, 04:14 PM   #980
P3Auto
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How are you handling charge control? It was my understanding that LI-ION batteries had to be temp monitored and not charged completely all the time. At full charge the batteries will suffer loss of capacity over time that gets worse with heat.

I always thought about doing what you are doing but I would be concerned with the under hood temps both high temps and low (below freeze point) temps. I see you added some current control and moved it inside the car that was a good idea.

Seems like a killer great idea for track day and short term use, especially if mounted away from heat. I don't think however it would be a great permanent replacement without some more environmental controls?

Are these cells something new that has overcome the traditional cons of lithium ion cells when it comes to runaway charging? It seems that even though you limited the current it will still charge (slower) until its full.

Dunno..Cool stuff though sir!

From wiki:


  • High charge levels and elevated temperatures (whether from charging or ambient air) hasten capacity loss.[45] Charging heat is caused by the carbon anode (typically replaced with
    which drastically reduces damage from charging, including expansion and other factors).[46]
  • A Standard (Cobalt) Li-ion cell that is full most of the time at 25 C (77 F) irreversibly loses approximately 20% capacity per year. Poor ventilation may increase temperatures, further shortening battery life. Loss rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 C (32 F), 20% at 25 C (77 F), and 35% at 40 C (104 F). When stored at 40%60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, and 15%, respectively.
Safety requirements

If overheated or overcharged, Li-ion batteries may suffer
and cell rupture.[52] In extreme cases this can lead to combustion. Deep discharge may short-circuit the cell, in which case recharging would be unsafe. To reduce these risks, Lithium-ion battery packs contain fail-safe circuitry that shuts down the battery when its voltage is outside the safe range of 34.2 V per cell. When stored for long periods the small current draw of the protection circuitry itself may drain the battery below its shut down voltage; normal chargers are then ineffective. Many types of lithium-ion cell cannot be charged safely below 0C.
Other safety features are required in each cell:
  • Shut-down separator (for overtemperature)
  • Tear-away tab (for internal pressure)
  • Vent (pressure relief)
  • Thermal interrupt (overcurrent/overcharging)
These devices occupy useful space inside the cells, add additional points of failure and irreversibly disable the cell when activated. They are required because the anode produces heat during use, while the cathode may produce oxygen. These devices and improved electrode designs reduce/eliminate the risk of fire or explosion. Further, these features increase costs compared to nickel metal hydride batteries, which require only a hydrogen/oxygen recombination device (preventing damage due to mild overcharging) and a back-up pressure valve.
These safety issues present a problem for large scale application of such cells in Electric Vehicles; A dramatic decrease in the failure rate is necessary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSubieDubie View Post
Hey guys. Been awhile since I've posted much here
I put together a sweet ~5-6 lb lithium battery with 960 amp capacity for 10 seconds then 540 continuous until drained. Should be something like 500 - 600 cold cranking amps and It's done great so far at -10f without being warmed.

Took out a stock size 32lb battery + probably ~3lb of mounting hardware and used the existing 4ga wire running to the trunk to put it under driver's seat. I set it on top of a welding pad just in case, and I made a Lexan case for it.

I also put a battery heater in there with a diode in-line to cut power in half from 60w to 30w so it doesn't get too hot.

Cranks over faster due to being ~13-14 volts at full charge instead of 12.5ish. This lithium chemistry is much safer than LiPolymer and won't catch fire or experience run-away charge. Supposedly also has higher charge efficiency than your standard Lead-Acid battery (like 90-95% vs 80ish?)

All in all I think it was well worth the effort of making it. Saved ~25lb and centralized mass


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Old 01-22-2013, 04:26 PM   #981
AKSubieDubie
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They're LiFePO4 - lithium iron phosphate.

Charging mode is just straight up alternator "CV" constant voltage - this chemistry is fine with that method.

Full charge is at 14.4 volts (3.6v per cell). I'm not limiting current as each cell can take up to 10C charge so each bank of cells can take 23amps. I wired up 8 in series so it's more than the alternator can put out making it safe.

I DID put a diode to bump the voltage output of the alternator when I put the stock battery in the trunk - I took that out after putting battery in since It was hitting ~15 volts on startup. Now it goes to 14.5-14.6 then drops to 14 during normal driving and occasionally hits 14.4 on longer highway drives (since alternator gets cold). These can accept charges above 15v olts without damaging them, provided you don't do it continuously

I was saying i put a diode inline with the battery heater I threw in to ensure things don't get too toasty . Since it's AC it'll block half of the sine wave and we'll assume i'm giving only 30W of power for heating the battery.

Last edited by AKSubieDubie; 01-22-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:29 PM   #982
Nomadgene
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What are the costs involved AkSubieDubie?
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:17 PM   #983
P3Auto
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Ok I misread the first time on the current limiting.

Yes I see the LiFePO4 have overcome a lot of the dangers of the traditional Li-ion cells. Well sir if you found a source for these cells cheap you may be on to something good!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSubieDubie View Post
They're LiFePO4 - lithium iron phosphate.

Charging mode is just straight up alternator "CV" constant voltage - this chemistry is fine with that method.

Full charge is at 14.4 volts (3.6v per cell). I'm not limiting current as each cell can take up to 10C charge so each bank of cells can take 23amps. I wired up 8 in series so it's more than the alternator can put out making it safe.

I DID put a diode to bump the voltage output of the alternator when I put the stock battery in the trunk - I took that out after putting battery in since It was hitting ~15 volts on startup. Now it goes to 14.5-14.6 then drops to 14 during normal driving and occasionally hits 14.4 on longer highway drives (since alternator gets cold). These can accept charges above 15v olts without damaging them, provided you don't do it continuously

I was saying i put a diode inline with the battery heater I threw in to ensure things don't get too toasty . Since it's AC it'll block half of the sine wave and we'll assume i'm giving only 30W of power for heating the battery.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:32 PM   #984
AKSubieDubie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomadgene View Post
What are the costs involved AkSubieDubie?
Between 250 and 500 depending on size
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:35 PM   #985
_davin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSubieDubie View Post

Between 250 and 500 depending on size
And how much for labor? Lol
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:56 AM   #986
Nomadgene
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSubieDubie View Post
Between 250 and 500 depending on size

This is me laughing…not in a good way.
While I admire your ingenuity and determination, I question the common sense.

Look here
http://www.braillebattery.com/index...._batteries/g4l


Hey, to each, their own!

Quote:
Originally Posted by _davin View Post
And how much for labor? Lol

This is me laughing in a good way.

Last edited by Nomadgene; 01-25-2013 at 02:39 AM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:37 AM   #987
granny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomadgene View Post

This is me laughing…not in a good way.
While I admire your ingenuity and determination, I question the common sense.

Look here
http://www.braillebattery.com/index...._batteries/g4l


Hey, to each, there own!
Look at the usage. The motorsport one is $399. For the right cranking amps it's $900+.

Last edited by granny; 01-23-2013 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:38 AM   #988
wuuusaa
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^^ SO wrong!! lol
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:26 AM   #989
Big-Sexy907
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Get and Odyssey PC680 and be done with it. Amazon has them on the cheap.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:45 AM   #990
insane_one
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dang... i want new parts
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:49 AM   #991
kayetealynn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insane_one View Post
dang... i want new parts
Trust me... No you don't.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:48 AM   #992
chanomatik
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Kev, you have to be specific. Do you want new PERFORMANCE parts or new COSMETIC parts?

You know you want that Liberal front bumper.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:06 PM   #993
Akimpreza
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I did some basic PM, I do my best to stay up on it. So this time it was the valve cover and spark plug gaskets. I also did the spark plugs, figured since I was there.


image by PixelPerfect_ml, on Flickr
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:19 PM   #994
insane_one
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Kev, you have to be specific. Do you want new PERFORMANCE parts or new COSMETIC parts?

You know you want that Liberal front bumper.
i wouldnt mind a Premium bumper either. I want both!
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:09 AM   #995
granny
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Granny getting her nightly wipe down before I put her to bed.

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Old 01-24-2013, 07:38 AM   #996
Cscj15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granny View Post
Granny getting her nightly wipe down before I put her to bed.
Rolled fenders?
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:56 AM   #997
granny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cscj15 View Post
Rolled fenders?
Yep. Poor mans wide body kit.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:08 PM   #998
AKSubieDubie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big-Sexy907 View Post
Get and Odyssey PC680 and be done with it. Amazon has them on the cheap.
That thing is 2.5x weight with a loss in amps I was shooting for reliable starting AND light weight
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:16 PM   #999
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What other weight mods have been to the car? To be honest im with sexy-bigs on this one. I could understand it if it was a space thing or the car was gutted... The new stm crash bar saves over 20lbs and is cheaper.


Granny those rears look good in that pic.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:26 PM   #1000
Cscj15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granny View Post

Yep. Poor mans wide body kit.
Nice. You should uhh help me do mine ehh? Haha I plan on running 17x9 with low offset.
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