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Old 06-20-2013, 10:51 AM   #351
KillerBMotorsport
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Meanwhile, back at the ranch... I'm contemplating if a SS version even needs to exist?

I'm making a TS manifold from 304 just as a one off for testing. Please excuse the rough sketch...

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:12 AM   #352
manitou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Meanwhile, back at the ranch... I'm contemplating if a SS version even needs to exist?

I'm making a TS manifold from 304 just as a one off for testing. Please excuse the rough sketch...
It seems that if you have the TS housing options available then a SS is probably not needed. Especially with your merged EWG collector.
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:51 PM   #353
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That's what I'm thinking... Unless the added cost doesn't equal the added performance.

Thoughts?
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Old 06-20-2013, 12:59 PM   #354
manitou
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How much added cost will there be? It can't be much.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:09 PM   #355
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The manifold requires more tubing and more welding and the 'adapter' isn't exactly a cheap part. Having not put the time in to manufacture one yet it's speculation, but if I were to guess.... another $500 or so.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:21 PM   #356
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I thought that Garrett came up with quadscroll couple years ago. This may be an easy application, with your design and if possible would make your kit even more unique.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:51 PM   #357
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Really interested in any gains realized from low mount TS vs. low mount.

Would you be running a singe wastegate for the TS set up as well (keeping the two halves separate all the way to the wastegate)?

ex: how I have my single wastegate set-up on my low mount twin scroll set-up... (this shows just half of it before adding the second pipe, but you can see it divided all the way to where the wastegate would be).

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:26 PM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
I thought that Garrett came up with quadscroll couple years ago.
As far as I know there were pictures posted, but it was nothing more than an April fools joke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRach View Post
Would you be running a singe wastegate for the TS set up as well (keeping the two halves separate all the way to the wastegate)?
Yes...

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Old 06-20-2013, 04:14 PM   #359
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very nice. Back in the day, GP Moto used to do that with the gates, but there was a big problem with the metal breaking off from the constant side to side pulses fatiguing it.

Your design looks stronger right off the bat, but have you addressed that potential problem?
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:24 PM   #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
very nice. Back in the day, GP Moto used to do that with the gates, but there was a big problem with the metal breaking off from the constant side to side pulses fatiguing it.

Your design looks stronger right off the bat, but have you addressed that potential problem?
The casting on these looks thick enough on that divider that it wouldn't have this issue. This piece is sourced from garrett iirc and it would be reasonable to assume that they've done some testing on their product.
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:00 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
very nice. Back in the day, GP Moto used to do that with the gates, but there was a big problem with the metal breaking off from the constant side to side pulses fatiguing it.

Your design looks stronger right off the bat, but have you addressed that potential problem?
That was a while back and IIRC they were a welded in piece of sheet-metal, and it was made from 304. So at the base, where it intersects the secondaries the thickness is 5/16" and it tapers thinner as it gets closer to the valve. Plus we are using the titanium alloyed version of 304 (AKA: SS321/347) so it is better suited for the temps as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by V3rtigo View Post
The casting on these looks thick enough on that divider that it wouldn't have this issue. This piece is sourced from garrett iirc and it would be reasonable to assume that they've done some testing on their product.
This cast adapter is our part. Garrett was very helpful in providing their housing data/dimensions, but this parts was not sourced from them.
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:28 PM   #362
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That seems like a pretty cool fabrication part for a lot of other applications. Thinking of selling it separately and/or designing a T4 flange version?
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:33 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
The manifold requires more tubing and more welding and the 'adapter' isn't exactly a cheap part. Having not put the time in to manufacture one yet it's speculation, but if I were to guess.... another $500 or so.
That's a bit more than what I would have thought. What value are you putting on the adapter? Since its cast what qty are you amortizing the tooling and mold cost over. You designed that as a stand alone part and it has good potential for sales across many platforms and this kit as well.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:59 PM   #364
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I love how the twin scroll header change simplifies the entire setup. I am seriously considering buying an 04 simply to get to use this part sooner, as I know it will be years before you get to changing the design for my 09. your expected cost for the kit is more amazing, when you consider a good rotated kit is in the ball park for what you are asking(assuming the turbo is included in that ~5000 quoted price).
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:58 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
The manifold requires more tubing and more welding and the 'adapter' isn't exactly a cheap part. Having not put the time in to manufacture one yet it's speculation, but if I were to guess.... another $500 or so.
If you can get the runners Mandel bent wont the welding be the same? There's just an additional merge.
Unless the shapes are too complex and then the welding was cheaper if the bender rapes you.

The other way is to make the cast part 4-1 using the same wastegate merge.
The diesel study says that split pulse should perform like a housing 80-90% of its size in a single scroll and produce torque curve like a housing 60-70% of its size single scroll. Seeing as how garret now offers .83 and 1.01, which matches .63 and .82, I don't see a need for single scroll versions. After actually reading the study, I think their conclusions were spot on for the most part.

Peoples expectations have just been unreasonable. I've been looking at graphs and found that the study was pretty accurate.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:06 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
That seems like a pretty cool fabrication part for a lot of other applications. Thinking of selling it separately and/or designing a T4 flange version?
We've been approached by a few others. If there is enough demand we'll make a T4 version. T4 will not work with this kit without modification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
That's a bit more than what I would have thought. What value are you putting on the adapter? Since its cast what qty are you amortizing the tooling and mold cost over. You designed that as a stand alone part and it has good potential for sales across many platforms and this kit as well.
In small quantity there's no hard tooling but each cost is higher. In larger quantity the per piece price comes down, but the tooling is quite expensive and even in quantity 50 the per price leaves margins in a sad state, to sell them at a 'reasonable' price. I really don't see anywhere near 50 pieces moving each year, but that is speculation on my end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmenet View Post
I love how the twin scroll header change simplifies the entire setup. I am seriously considering buying an 04 simply to get to use this part sooner, as I know it will be years before you get to changing the design for my 09. your expected cost for the kit is more amazing, when you consider a good rotated kit is in the ball park for what you are asking(assuming the turbo is included in that ~5000 quoted price).
I imagine the GR version to go much faster. The premise of the kit is the same and exhaust fitment changes are minor. The bigger challenge is the intercooler, but I've got some things going on there

Quote:
Originally Posted by reid-o View Post
If you can get the runners Mandel bent wont the welding be the same? There's just an additional merge.
Unless the shapes are too complex and then the welding was cheaper if the bender rapes you.
There's more tubing and if you look at the CAD sketch you can see the secondaries spiral from over-under to side-by-side. The geometry is tight to the point that it can't be formed and will require more fit-up, fixturing, welding and finishing
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:29 PM   #367
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Well, I'm planning on saving up money for this...

I'm awaiting GR results as usual
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:23 PM   #368
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^

Same here!!!
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:30 AM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmenet View Post
your expected cost for the kit is more amazing, when you consider a good rotated kit is in the ball park for what you are asking(assuming the turbo is included in that ~5000 quoted price).
Pretty sure it does NOT come with a turbo for that price.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:56 AM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
Pretty sure it does NOT come with a turbo for that price.
+1

It would be nice to see a list of what it will come with though.
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Old 06-27-2013, 01:07 PM   #371
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I've 86% sure it was posted in here at some point, but on the slight chance I'm wrong...

Header
Down-Pipe
Up-Pipe
Dump Tube
Front Mount Intercooler
Radiator
Upper Radiator Support
Lower Radiator Support
Brackets
Bumper Beam
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Old 06-27-2013, 02:03 PM   #372
panda97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
I've 86% sure it was posted in here at some point, but on the slight chance I'm wrong...

Header
Down-Pipe
Up-Pipe
Dump Tube
Front Mount Intercooler
Radiator
Upper Radiator Support
Lower Radiator Support
Brackets
Bumper Beam
How much would that roughly be for a TS GR?
And a GT35 would work for that?
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Old 06-27-2013, 02:06 PM   #373
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Intercooler piping?

BTW I'll volunteer for the GR/GV kit beta test if you need someone
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:00 AM   #374
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Were you planning on running an open dump from the EWG or will there be piping into the down-pipe? i saw you mention there will be a dump tube in the kit above, but wanted to check....
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:56 PM   #375
KillerBMotorsport
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I'm running an open dump right now. I was really surprised how much you can get it to scoot without opening it and scaring the b-jesus out of everyone. Although I do enjoy the WTF was that expressions from innocent bystanders.

Going recirc means a larger than 3" cat-back IMO to get anywhere near open's performance levels. I'm not quite ready to take that one on yet.
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