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Old 08-06-2012, 03:33 AM   #1
nathan.d.kim
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Default TMIC: Stock STI or Process West?

I have a '07 STI with forged internals, Cobb catted TBE, stock vf43 turbo, and Akuma pro-tune. The stock turbo is almost dead with oil seeping out.

I am waiting for a new FP HTA71 turbo with 8 cm ^ 2 housing and ss oil feed line. I'm not here to argue whether FP is the way to go. I decided to go with FP because my tuner liked the HTA68 and wanted to see what the 71 could do on my platform.

The HTA71 is advertised to be a 51 lb/min turbo in a small size. I will be upgrading to 775cc injectors and a 300lph fuel pump with this build.

Now: Will the stock STI tmic be a huge limiting factor for this turbo?

I know it is not a "big" turbo, but I am concerned about heat soak and increased heat from the higher flow rate.

Tuner recommends the Process West tmic to get the most out of it. I don't disagree - solid unit with air splitter and meticulous design considerations. I'm just torn about spending another $900 for the tmic. My gut tells me to bite the bullet and get it all at once. But my brain wonders if the price is worth the gains I will see from the PW unit.

Is the stock sti tmic good enough for this hybrid turbo? Or, if I want to make this a street monster (without going rotated or fmic) should I go with the PW?

I originally started out with just replacing with a new vf43 to get the car back up and running. Then I decided to upgrade at roughly double the cost with supporting mods and a new tune. Now, I am bitten by the bug and considering a tmic. Whew...
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:36 AM   #2
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Check classified section for a less expensive unit... You def should upgrade the Intercooler. I watched a guy all excited as his car got strapped to the dyno; stroked motor and a good list of supporting mods. Pull after pull he grinned even more and all of a sudden the tuner told him his STi tmic won't allow him to tune his setup to its full potential... What a let down.

/story
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:38 AM   #3
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There has been a big thread about this roughly 2 months ago, with test results.
You can upgrade to a 2008 Sti TMIC, but will have to figure out the shroud.
Once that is done, thermally this will do as good or better than the PW, but there was some talk about the OEM TMIC being crimped and therefore leaking at "high" pressure.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:37 AM   #4
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Thanks, guys. Bump.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad
There has been a big thread about this roughly 2 months ago, with test results.
You can upgrade to a 2008 Sti TMIC, but will have to figure out the shroud.
Once that is done, thermally this will do as good or better than the PW, but there was some talk about the OEM TMIC being crimped and therefore leaking at "high" pressure.
The test results for that setup also didn't tube for maximum power which is where the PW would have been superior.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:44 AM   #6
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Your tuner recommends that tmic and you make a thread saying you don't disagree, but still question it? And don't bump anything because you are too lazy to search.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HinshawWRX
Your tuner recommends that tmic and you make a thread saying you don't disagree, but still question it? And don't bump anything because you are too lazy to search.
Thank you, I did search until about 3 am last night. I found a lot more info on people going from 2.0L or from a WRX platform. Also very little info on specifically the HTA71, as few people have run this setup yet. So I created a thread because I'm probably not the only one with a similar setup pondering the same thing.

I do not disagree with my tuner. But, I'm also hoping someone out there may have had experience with an HTA68 (similar turbo) on a 2.5L. Tuner hasn't done the HTA71 yet.

I KNOW it will help, but is the cost benefit worth the gains? I don't have 900 bucks easily laying around for minimal gain. If it will drastically bring this turbo to life, then maybe I will get it now rather than later.

Lazy? Hardly. I work my ass off serving this great nation, so maybe you should think twice before adding absolutely nothing to this thread.

Geez. Some people. Thought we were here to help each other out... Don't even respond if you aren't here to help someone out.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:21 PM   #8
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I definitely agree with your tuner that you need something with more flow and cooling capacity than the sti intercooler. If you don't want to shell out big bucks on the PW, a used Hyperflow or TurboXS TMIC can be found for ~$400 and you can sell the STI TMIC for ~$250 - $300.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:23 PM   #9
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Think what hes saying is im sure there are plenty of threads talking about upgrading the topmount intercooler and not taking the time to do a search before you open a thread. You can do a search for something simular to the 71 or something flowing roughly the same air and see what intercooler they are all using. Serving in the military should never be a basis of a response reguardless, military members know full well what they are getting into before they sign their enlistment papers. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ghlight=hta+68 is with stock top mount
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:31 PM   #10
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Thanks, i will look into hyperflow. Thought turboxs was only for the wrx? Saw it was for both on rally sport direct, but turbo xs site says for wrx. But im sure it fits with some minimal finagling.

Red - Not in military anymore and still serving in another capacity. Just take offense at "lazy" even though i know the rules, searched the threads, found some info, and still had questions.Trying to see if someone had a similar setup then actually waited to get the better tmic later and regretted not getting it sooner. That's all. Saw your link already too. I don't have all those supporting mods as that beast. If I did, I won't complain about a $900 tmic!

Thanks, guys. I'm leaning towards the PW though it hurts to think of the damage to my wallet!
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:42 PM   #11
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I'm curious to see how this turbo does. I'd say you should try it with the stock TMIC and see how it does. If you aren't happy, then upgrade. If anything, it will help someone else learn something
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xluben
I'm curious to see how this turbo does. I'd say you should try it with the stock TMIC and see how it does. If you aren't happy, then upgrade. If anything, it will help someone else learn something
Then pay more to push the setup beyond what STi tmic can handle? Why not just upgrade and tune once
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:58 PM   #13
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That's a good point. John at Akuma is my tuner. I don't want to speak for him, but he was real interested in seeing what the 71 could do. I believe he tested the 68 on a 2008 STI when he was with Cobb awhile back.

If I do end up getting the PW or another bigger or better tmic, maybe I will ask John if he is willing to do a dyno comparison with and without the aftermarket tmic. He may be willing to do it though they get pretty busy there. That way, we can all learn something about this little turbo that could.

The PW looks nice fitment and actually thinner than the stocker...

I believe the stock sti tmic was designed based on a 30 lb/min turbo. It does get extremely hot when running hard - enough for water to sizzle. The conflicting info I mentioned earlier is that proponents say the tmic should only be no more than 30 degrees hotter than ambient temp. Others say that a cool tmic only means you are pushing all the hot air to the turbo rather than absorbing it before it goes in. I dont know enough to argue either way. The general consensus is that aftermarket tmic flows better and cools better because of large core.

Last edited by nathan.d.kim; 08-06-2012 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:57 PM   #14
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Nathan do not pull the "I serve my country" card because many owners on here are in the military, including myself. If you want to start a piss war over this you can play with yourself.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HinshawWRX
Nathan do not pull the "I serve my country" card because many owners on here are in the military, including myself. If you want to start a piss war over this you can play with yourself.
I'm not going to enter into a piss war because I'm more interested in my thread. I don't care if you're in the AF or not - moot to me. And I wasn't throwing the military card out. It was ASSUMED by another person that I meant military. I work damn hard in my current NON-military job each day in continued service - just not an appropriate venue to disclose. Bottom-line: I searched extensively before making a new thread.

Did I come onto your thread to make assumptions? Negative.

Don't make it a habit of categorically saying someone is "lazy" because you think they didn't search the forums adequately in your head. There are lazy people everywhere, including forums and the military. I am everything BUT lazy.

If you don't like my thread or have anything useful for those who may be interested or have similar setups, please don't respond. Thanks.

RAKKASAN!!!

Last edited by nathan.d.kim; 08-06-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HinshawWRX
Your tuner recommends that tmic and you make a thread saying you don't disagree, but still question it? And don't bump anything because you are too lazy to search.
What a d-bag. Lot of hate on this forum
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:45 PM   #17
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I'm not going to make a bigger deal about it. I probably should have ignored it. Just been working too much lately, but still not saving much money to spend on the car (with two kids). Then I get called lazy - just set me over the edge even if it's over a simple forum search.

Some people just troll the forums to sharp shoot. It is his right to do so. Enough said. Not worth the time. Let's move on!
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:20 PM   #18
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It would be nice to run the following dynos for better comparison:

HTA71 install only
HTA71 with only injectors and fuel pump upgrade
HTA71 with tmic, injectors, and pump upgrade

But John's got a business to run, not a poops and giggles lab!
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:06 PM   #19
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Will you get by with the STI tmic? Yes. Will you see the best gains from putting a larger turbo on your car but limiting it to an STI tmic? No. Should there be a debate about stock STI intercooler vs Process West? Not in this context. If you want this to be a "build" be smart about it and "bite the bullet" to see the maximum gains as suggested by your tuner. If any other people posted in here that knew something they would simply tell you to ask your tuner. This has been done, but you can't, for whatever reason justify the purchase. It's really common sense. While you get mad because reading the answer over and over again, and make a stupid comment about "serving your country" (that you edit out) which really means you have a job. Grow up and take the advice, be it search or not.

Cliffs. Man up and take the advice of your TUNER who knows what he is doing over the word of random strangers on the internet. I know for a fact Unabomber himself would say the same thing.
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:07 PM   #20
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You always have the ETS TMIC option too:






I'm very happy with mine. I'm running hybrid speed density so I can see post-IC temps & it seems to do a bang up job. Fits well too...snugs right up to the stock splitter/hood seal.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1QUIKV6 View Post
You always have the ETS TMIC option too:






I'm very happy with mine. I'm running hybrid speed density so I can see post-IC temps & it seems to do a bang up job. Fits well too...snugs right up to the stock splitter/hood seal.
Searched on ETS and it looks like "Michael" had some good customer service in the past. They've made many units for the Supras going back to the 90's. Can't go wrong with either one. I will look into that more carefully. Thanks for the info, dude.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HinshawWRX View Post
Will you get by with the STI tmic? Yes. Will you see the best gains from putting a larger turbo on your car but limiting it to an STI tmic? No. Should there be a debate about stock STI intercooler vs Process West? Not in this context. If you want this to be a "build" be smart about it and "bite the bullet" to see the maximum gains as suggested by your tuner. If any other people posted in here that knew something they would simply tell you to ask your tuner. This has been done, but you can't, for whatever reason justify the purchase. It's really common sense. While you get mad because reading the answer over and over again, and make a stupid comment about "serving your country" (that you edit out) which really means you have a job. Grow up and take the advice, be it search or not.

Cliffs. Man up and take the advice of your TUNER who knows what he is doing over the word of random strangers on the internet. I know for a fact Unabomber himself would say the same thing.
Relax, Kyle. I'll grow up now - we got off to a bad start because of your first post and I fueled it further by returning in kind. I edit, yes, because I can be OCD at times and usually type with fat fingers on an iPhone and little things bother me, such as "bigger tmic" corrected to "better tmic" (since PW unit is smaller than stock, technically). I never edited "service to this great nation" - it's still there and always has been. There are other service jobs, including intel community, federal law enforcement, treasury, revenue, US Secret Service, environmental protection, etc. I did my active duty time, then found other ways to serve. I owe it because your * EDIT: OUR * tax money paid for my education.

I don't completely agree with "just ask your tuner" blindly. I did that and respect that approach. I got an answer. I agree it would be BEST for my build. But cost is always a consideration and I'm weighing what other options besides the PW unit. So far, I've gotten some decent suggestions and have seen what others have done with similar situations. From eBay options requiring a lot of fitting (from a pm), to used alternate brands, to ETS unit, I think I'm getting some good input before making my decision.

Unabomber's manifesto is a great resource for stock TMIC vs. FMIC or aftermarket TMIC. But, he wisely leaves the ultimate decision to the user based on some hard facts. He doesn't say DO THIS or DO THAT.

Isn't that the point of the forums? To share ideas?

Last edited by nathan.d.kim; 08-06-2012 at 09:09 PM. Reason: Removed political commentary - off topic.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:41 PM   #23
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I'll ignore the fluff in there and input this. Avoid Ebay intercoolers. While PW might be the best to some, it may not be others. The ultimate difference between what is best lays upon the end user.
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:51 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HinshawWRX View Post
I'll ignore the fluff in there and input this. Avoid Ebay intercoolers. While PW might be the best to some, it may not be others. The ultimate difference between what is best lays upon the end user.
Thanks, Kyle, for your input. I never planned to get an eBay intercooler due to fitment issues, made in China issues, knock-offs, etc. Some have made it work for them but I would rather pay the extra money for a nicer unit.

And, genuinely, thank you for your work as an aircraft mechanic in the USAF. I don't knock the USAF. Back in 2005, the Red Horse Squadron built my unit some AWESOME quality of life and force protection measures on our combat outpost. And their sergeant major even gave us a big screen TV to top that (though we had no satellite)! God bless the USAF!
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1QUIKV6 View Post
You always have the ETS TMIC option too:






I'm very happy with mine. I'm running hybrid speed density so I can see post-IC temps & it seems to do a bang up job. Fits well too...snugs right up to the stock splitter/hood seal.
Tell me more about your turbo, if you don't mind. 8 cm^2? TD-05 or similar? What other supporting mods?
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