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Old 07-20-2009, 05:08 PM   #1451
Quik265
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i think it applies in certain situations,.. but having proven engine failure in a specific build month is quite another,.. i've scoured these threads as i'm getting nervous (i should be excited for stage2) but i might have missed it,.. has there been any specifics as to the common reason they're failing,. I've read the switch from lead to silver bearings,. and some other process i cant remember,.. any concrete reason on this build time to the next?? can a simple bearing material change really be the only reason these are continuing to blow...?
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:12 PM   #1452
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another question as well and if this is wrong i apologize as i have no idea why i would have thought it,.. dont subaru dealerships bill their respective HQ, i.e SOC and SOA for warrenty work,.. why would they deny a claim if they get to bill for their time to fix it,.. dont the dealerships make money by doing warrenty work??
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:18 PM   #1453
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....I haven't kept up on it to be honest so I'll leave it to others that may have the facts to answer. However, if there is reason to believe there may be a issue with yours, it would more of a reason to perhaps re-think modifications at this stage. ....are people spinning bearings or something of that nature? Perhaps you can give it a few thousand miles and do 2-3 oil analysis during that time to check for unusual wear. Once you feel you might be in the clear, then you can go ahead with your modifications. ....really depends on the type of failure your expecting as to whether or not a UOA will be worth it.

....just thinking out loud. The only other option is pretty obvious but I know you won't like it. ....don't mod while it's under warranty if you have any fear that it may not be covered.
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:57 PM   #1454
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Originally Posted by Quik265 View Post
another question as well and if this is wrong i apologize as i have no idea why i would have thought it,.. dont subaru dealerships bill their respective HQ, i.e SOC and SOA for warrenty work,.. why would they deny a claim if they get to bill for their time to fix it,.. dont the dealerships make money by doing warrenty work??
SOA or SOC has the final say in whether or not a claim gets paid. If there is any doubt, the dealer will contact SOA or SOC for authorization. Also, warranty parts get sent back for evaluation (to find out if an issue is common, etc), and if the failure is not considered a manufacturer defect, the dealership gets charged back for the repair, parts AND labor.

I can do legitimate warranty work all day long, it doesn't matter, because like you said, we get paid. But, to cover my butt, and the dealerships, if there is a chance something is not a manufacturers defect, I contact SOA.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:00 PM   #1455
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Originally Posted by Quik265 View Post
i think it applies in certain situations,.. but having proven engine failure in a specific build month is quite another,.. i've scoured these threads as i'm getting nervous (i should be excited for stage2) but i might have missed it,.. has there been any specifics as to the common reason they're failing,. I've read the switch from lead to silver bearings,. and some other process i cant remember,.. any concrete reason on this build time to the next?? can a simple bearing material change really be the only reason these are continuing to blow...?
You can find out your build date by looking at the placard on the drivers side door pillar. This might help ease your mind on if your vehicle may be affected.

Also, if you modify the vehicle, it will be hard to tell if your vehicle has this issue or if the modification caused the failure.

I also want to say, that I believe in Canada, if you modify your vehicle in ANY way, the can void your warranty, but I am not sure. You need to read up on the warranty for your vehicle, or contact SOC.
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Old 07-21-2009, 03:56 PM   #1456
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Little update : They took my transmission apart and it is in fact the synchro for 5th gear that is gone bade. The service rep was there today also, my service writer said he did his best to explain to the rep my situation and how I just bought the car. I was told they will either have a decision by the end of today or early tomorrow. If SOA says no what exactly are my options?
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Old 07-24-2009, 03:32 PM   #1457
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i got my 09 wrx in september so i'm going to assume my build date was july or august,.. and if my engine is doomed to fail this is my question,. I get stage 2 tomorow, Perrin CBE, Invidia DP, Cobb AP, and AEM cai,.. what are my chances of hassle free engine replacement if or when it goes with those mods??
Uhhh, slim to none?

If you're so worried about your engine being "doomed to fail", why not keep everything bone stock until after your warranty period is over? No need to give the factory an excuse not to cover it, should it decide to go.
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Old 07-24-2009, 03:48 PM   #1458
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My dealership is actually pretty good about stuff like that i'm told,.. if my engine does go, all i have to is put it back to stock and take it in,.. if i really want to look good i can order a new turbo heat shield as i will have to cut mine to use the invidia dp,. so pop the new heat shield on, put the stock dp and cbe on and replace the airbox,.. throw the stock tune on the car with the AP and bang, back to oem, full warrenty coverage,..
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:39 PM   #1459
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My dealership is actually pretty good about stuff like that i'm told,.. if my engine does go, all i have to is put it back to stock and take it in,.. if i really want to look good i can order a new turbo heat shield as i will have to cut mine to use the invidia dp,. so pop the new heat shield on, put the stock dp and cbe on and replace the airbox,.. throw the stock tune on the car with the AP and bang, back to oem, full warrenty coverage,..
More like full warranty fraud. This is why Subaru takes such a hard look at claims on these cars.
Man up. Do your mods, beat the snot out of it if you want - then pay when things break.
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Old 07-28-2009, 04:47 PM   #1460
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More like full warranty fraud. This is why Subaru takes such a hard look at claims on these cars.
Man up. Do your mods, beat the snot out of it if you want - then pay when things break.
who said anything about fraud,.. my friend needed an engine replacement on his 05lgt, he had done mods but they wern't directly related, they asked him to put it back to stock and put a brand new engine in,. they recognize that people buy these cars to mod them, unless you've gone crazy with the parts they will respect you if you are smart about your mods and your car and you're regualr with your service,.. dealerships differ from one place to the next, luckily we have a good one apparantly..
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:35 PM   #1461
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who said anything about fraud,.. my friend needed an engine replacement on his 05lgt, he had done mods but they wern't directly related, they asked him to put it back to stock and put a brand new engine in,. they recognize that people buy these cars to mod them, unless you've gone crazy with the parts they will respect you if you are smart about your mods and your car and you're regualr with your service,.. dealerships differ from one place to the next, luckily we have a good one apparantly..
Fraud should not be tolerated.

But perhaps many things works better in Canada.
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Old 07-29-2009, 10:53 PM   #1462
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Name: Jay

Make: 2005 Impreza WRX/STi

Mileage: 43,000

Time Out Of Use: 3 days thus far…

Problem And Likely Cause: Boost & Coolant leaks and Stripped starter bolts - faulty install

Modifications: Stock

Submitted For Warranty Work (Yes/No): Yes

Reason Given For Denial: Don't know yet whether they'll honor or not

Your Story: Bought my 2005 STi June 16 from a very small dealer in Illinois (I live in Michigan).They purchased the car at auction. I was told it was knocking, and so they had the whole engine replaced under warranty by a Subaru Dealer. I have seen the paperwork to prove this, and the warranty work is in Subaru’s system.

After carefully breaking in my new engine, I was able to confirm that I was only holding ~7 psi of boost, instead of the expected 14.5 psi. I also noticed a small coolant leak. I brought the car to my dealer in West Michigan (no names yet…) to troubleshoot the problems. Soon my service writer called me back and stated that the people who installed my engine “did a bad job”. Apparently when installing the starter, they stripped out the threads and left the bolts loose. My dealership also found a pinhole in a coolant line and a small slit in the turbo inlet.

My dealer says these parts will not be replaced under warranty because it appears as though they were damaged by a faulty install. Subaru’s position thus far is that this issue is between me and the dealer who did the install (who I have never met). I am waiting for my dealer to contact the other service writer to attempt to get them to pay for the repair work. The Subaru tech here has marked my car ‘un-driveable’, so I believe that if the other dealer wanted the car brought to them, they would have to send a truck. I am hoping that they will agree to have my dealer resolve the issues.

I am definitely getting frustrated. If the dealer won’t warranty their work, I plan to speak personally to my Subaru rep to see what I can get done.

I am looking for comments and thoughts on what to do next. Thanks in advance.

Jay
Just checking back in -

Countryside Subaru of Countryside Illinois failed for six solid business days to return the calls of my dealership (My Auto Import Center of Muskegon, MI) and myself, despite our persistence. The west Michigan subaru rep made a 'goodwill offer' to repair the car at 50% of warranty rate. Needing my car back to drive to a job for my university, I accepted.

My Auto returned the car just before closing time on Friday July 17th, assuring me that everything worked as normal. I quickly found that my car was still making 7psi of boost. I have since solved the problem myself... it took about an hour total under the hood to install a proper restrictor pill. The dealer missed this entirely, which is acceptable. Telling me that the car ran perfectly after a 'test drive' is not.

All in all, I am frustrated with the situation, but I have the car back and have fixed the boost issue, so I will let things go at this point.

Regards,
Jay
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Old 07-30-2009, 08:20 PM   #1463
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Just checking back in -

Countryside Subaru of Countryside Illinois failed for six solid business days to return the calls of my dealership (My Auto Import Center of Muskegon, MI) and myself, despite our persistence. The west Michigan subaru rep made a 'goodwill offer' to repair the car at 50% of warranty rate. Needing my car back to drive to a job for my university, I accepted.

My Auto returned the car just before closing time on Friday July 17th, assuring me that everything worked as normal. I quickly found that my car was still making 7psi of boost. I have since solved the problem myself... it took about an hour total under the hood to install a proper restrictor pill. The dealer missed this entirely, which is acceptable. Telling me that the car ran perfectly after a 'test drive' is not.

All in all, I am frustrated with the situation, but I have the car back and have fixed the boost issue, so I will let things go at this point.

Regards,
Jay
I have been dealing with Subaru and Lemon Law Lawyers for two cars now. On the 2007, Subaru blamed me for everything including the damage done by Welsh Subaru of Limerick. Welsh Subaru damaged the O2 sensor while working on the trans and then told Subaru that I installed an aftermarket sensor and damaged it myself during the install. Another dealer took pictures of the O2 sensor proving that it was the stock sensor and I gave the pictures to my lawyer and Subaru. Subaru paid extra for their arrogance.

I now have a 2008 WRX which I bought in February and after just 240 miles it began to develop some problems that needed to be addressed. I told Subaru as long as they are trying to fix the problem I won't have to sue them. Subaru said there was no reason to involve a lawyer and they will continue to work with me but if they don't know what the problem is they can't fix it. So I complained a few times and recently asked the dealer to try again to find the problem. They ignored me...(Bad move)...So I am now suing Subaru AGAIN and how much they pay will be directly related to how they address the problems or not adress the problems. It is up to them.

Last edited by Stealth WRX; 07-30-2009 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:57 AM   #1464
sajohnson
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Originally Posted by Stealth WRX View Post
I have been dealing with Subaru and Lemon Law Lawyers for two cars now. On the 2007, Subaru blamed me for everything including the damage done by Welsh Subaru of Limerick. Welsh Subaru damaged the O2 sensor while working on the trans and then told Subaru that I installed an aftermarket sensor and damaged it myself during the install. Another dealer took pictures of the O2 sensor proving that it was the stock sensor and I gave the pictures to my lawyer and Subaru. Subaru paid extra for their arrogance.

I now have a 2008 WRX which I bought in February and after just 240 miles it began to develop some problems that needed to be addressed. I told Subaru as long as they are trying to fix the problem I won't have to sue them. Subaru said there was no reason to involve a lawyer and they will continue to work with me but if they don't know what the problem is they can't fix it. So I complained a few times and recently asked the dealer to try again to find the problem. They ignored me...(Bad move)...So I am now suing Subaru AGAIN and how much they pay will be directly related to how they address the problems or not adress the problems. It is up to them.
These tales continue to amaze me. Why would a dealer tell a lie (about the O2 sensor in this case) that is demonstrably false? I mean, if you're gonna lie at least make it believable!

I'm not a lawsuit happy person but sometimes that's the only way to get satisfaction.

It's a real shame. It wasn't this way until relatively recently. It used to be that the customer was always (ok, usually) right. Now, there seems to be some sort of adversarial relationship between customers and mfrs.

Mfrs assume that all of their customers are out to screw them, or that they are stupid enough to believe the bs they tell them (they all do that, it's your fault, etc).

I think it's too bad that you've had to sue them (twice!) but I commend you for sticking to your guns and fighting them.

Good luck.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:55 PM   #1465
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"It's a real shame. It wasn't this way until relatively recently. It used to be that the customer was always (ok, usually) right. Now, there seems to be some sort of adversarial relationship between customers and mfrs.

Mfrs assume that all of their customers are out to screw them, or that they are stupid enough to believe the bs they tell them (they all do that, it's your fault, etc)."

I'm glad I'm not the only person thinking this. The short version of my story. I had a final drive issue with my transmission on my 04 WRX 55,000 miles. I had a turbo back exhaust and cobb stage 2 (that I had been running for 30,000 miles). I put it back to stock just so there wasn't any questions. The Subaru dealer took my trans apart, found that a the final drive teeth on were a little chewed up causing a white only when accelerating in all gears. The car shifted fine. They asked me if I had ever serviced the fluid and I had. They asked me what kind. I used a GL4 synchromesh fluid that I had in there since 30,000 miles. After I told them this they said the fluid was why the transmission failed. I inspected the disassembled transmission. No scoring, no discoloration, no burnt fluid. I don't see how lack of lube could have done this I tell them. I insist on speaking with the area rep in front of my transmission. They were nice enough to set up a meeting. So I walk into the meeting and advise the area rep that I've been a service advisor for a GM dealer for 10 years and the gentleman standing next to me is a GM World Class Tech who specialized in transmission and drive line. This guy is in his
50's and knows his stuff. He agrees with me and advises the rep that fluid didn't cause this. Subaru told me that if I sent my gears and fluid to metallurgist and could prove this they would cover it. After a few more phone conversations they agree to pay for half. It took 1 month to get my transmission. I paid just under $2000 out of pocket to repair this. By the way I chewed up the final drive by spinning out on a racetrack in the rain going backwards through the grass at 60 mph and didn't push the clutch in. Spun the Engine and transmission the wrong way, stalled the car. Not once did Subaru say abuse. If that would have be brought up I would have said they called my bluff and backed down. It seem that they were only looking for a reason not to cover it. That is why I will never by another Subaru again. I bought this car new even though I worked for GM. Glad to see Subaru is worried about retention.
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:24 PM   #1466
RexyGirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcsi99 View Post
"It's a real shame. It wasn't this way until relatively recently. It used to be that the customer was always (ok, usually) right. Now, there seems to be some sort of adversarial relationship between customers and mfrs.

Mfrs assume that all of their customers are out to screw them, or that they are stupid enough to believe the bs they tell them (they all do that, it's your fault, etc)."

I'm glad I'm not the only person thinking this. The short version of my story. I had a final drive issue with my transmission on my 04 WRX 55,000 miles. I had a turbo back exhaust and cobb stage 2 (that I had been running for 30,000 miles). I put it back to stock just so there wasn't any questions. The Subaru dealer took my trans apart, found that a the final drive teeth on were a little chewed up causing a white only when accelerating in all gears. The car shifted fine. They asked me if I had ever serviced the fluid and I had. They asked me what kind. I used a GL4 synchromesh fluid that I had in there since 30,000 miles. After I told them this they said the fluid was why the transmission failed. I inspected the disassembled transmission. No scoring, no discoloration, no burnt fluid. I don't see how lack of lube could have done this I tell them. I insist on speaking with the area rep in front of my transmission. They were nice enough to set up a meeting. So I walk into the meeting and advise the area rep that I've been a service advisor for a GM dealer for 10 years and the gentleman standing next to me is a GM World Class Tech who specialized in transmission and drive line. This guy is in his
50's and knows his stuff. He agrees with me and advises the rep that fluid didn't cause this. Subaru told me that if I sent my gears and fluid to metallurgist and could prove this they would cover it. After a few more phone conversations they agree to pay for half. It took 1 month to get my transmission. I paid just under $2000 out of pocket to repair this. By the way I chewed up the final drive by spinning out on a racetrack in the rain going backwards through the grass at 60 mph and didn't push the clutch in. Spun the Engine and transmission the wrong way, stalled the car. Not once did Subaru say abuse. If that would have be brought up I would have said they called my bluff and backed down. It seem that they were only looking for a reason not to cover it. That is why I will never by another Subaru again. I bought this car new even though I worked for GM. Glad to see Subaru is worried about retention.
Wait a minute...

Subaru paid for something you admit you screwed up and Subaru is wrong?

They weren't looking for a reason not to cover it. They know a defect vs. abuse/neglect when they see it. They knew you were wrong, but, to satisfy you, they covered half.

So, why do they suck again?

What is this world coming to?
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Old 08-01-2009, 08:25 AM   #1467
hcsi99
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Wait a minute...

Subaru paid for something you admit you screwed up and Subaru is wrong?

They weren't looking for a reason not to cover it. They know a defect vs. abuse/neglect when they see it. They knew you were wrong, but, to satisfy you, they covered half.

So, why do they suck again?

What is this world coming to?
My point being they said the wrong fluid caused the failure they didn't say abuse. I've seen the inside of a transmission that has failed because of lack of lubrication mine didn't look like that at all. If they would have said "you must have been abusing it or driving it to hard then I wouldn't have even tried. They never even asked me how it happened. I'm saying they were wrong because just maybe a part that they build for the transmission failed and they were looking for any way around that. I forgot to mention the fluid that I use is used by another Subaru dealer in the area. That's who told me what you use. When I brought this up the rep contacted the other dealer confirmed my story and told me that any transmission claims that dealer has or had will be charged back or not paid by Subaru as long as they were using that fluid.
The GM dealer I work for is nothing like this. Are #1 goal is customer satisfaction and retention. If something looks questionable but we have no proof that the customer caused the failure then we warranty the problem. I know Subaru has a bulletin with pictures that show what an abused transmission looks like I've seen the bulletin and I've seen the inside of a transmission that matches this bulletin. None of my gears were damaged just 1 gear on the final drive and none of the teeth were sheered off just a few chips out of the gear. I think this is why that bulletin was never brought to my attention for my transmission. I feel at this point if something were to go wrong that could be under warranty on say a new Subaru I were to buy and say it was by chance and actual defect I don't feel that I can trust Subaru to do the right thing.
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Old 08-01-2009, 09:00 AM   #1468
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Are #1 goal is customer satisfaction and retention. If something looks questionable but we have no proof that the customer caused the failure then we warranty the problem. I know Subaru has a bulletin with pictures that show what an abused transmission looks like I've seen the bulletin and I've seen the inside of a transmission that matches this bulletin. None of my gears were damaged just 1 gear on the final drive and none of the teeth were sheered off just a few chips out of the gear. I think this is why that bulletin was never brought to my attention for my transmission. I feel at this point if something were to go wrong that could be under warranty on say a new Subaru I were to buy and say it was by chance and actual defect I don't feel that I can trust Subaru to do the right thing.
First off, I see your point and agree on that. That were wrong in what they were claiming as to what caused the failure.

Here is a question I pose about the above.

Say if GM calls for those parts on those particular claims that you guys have done and they find it is abuse, what do you do when they charge them back to you? I assume your dealer is big enough and and stable enough to eat multiple repairs for free w/o calling the customer asking for money.

I am asking this because that is good on you, but SOA will ask for parts back if it has been submitted for a claim. If they find it is not a legit claim, the dealers will be billed for that repairs. Most dealers including mine can't afford to be eating warranty claims. Of course it also doesn't look well in SOA's eyes as well if this happens often with a dealer.
I am sure you know all about the process as well. I know if I or my technicians can't prove the failure was from mods or abuse, it will be covered. If there is a doubt, I call my rep. he makes the call.
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Old 08-01-2009, 09:56 AM   #1469
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GM does call for the parts to be returned. If they feel it isn't a factory defect then we do get charged back. The only thing is they see what we see. I've yet to be charged back for a part that I warrantied that I wasn't sure how it failed. I deal with this with CTSV customers all the time. I have a customer that most likely tracks his car. He has upgraded the suspension The Brembos clear coat has turned yellow. His rear diff went out. I took it apart and the clutches in the diff started to come apart. I have no idea why they did this and I have no proof that the customer did anything wrong. We warrantied it, GM asked for the part back, I was not charged back. I see a lot of questionable claims with Hummer too. A lot of customer use there trucks for off roading. So times they go over the limit. I have denied repairs before but that's because we had to tow someone out of a pond that was over the door sills. I've see ring gears go through the front diff case and we still warrantied it, GM asked no questions. The customer was off roading but had been through the off road training at AM General and was not abusing the truck. He was simply stuck, tried to get out, something in the front diff broken and that was that.
To sum this all up would my transmission not have failed if I had the Subaru "super" fluid in there. I think it would have. Subaru wouldn't say, they just said I don't know.
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:41 AM   #1470
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So it is pretty much the same then.

I agree with you on the fluid part.
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Old 08-04-2009, 01:43 PM   #1471
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Default 2009 WRX not boosting correctly

Make: 2009 WRX

Mileage: 8,300 km
Time Out Of Use: Not sure yet

Problem And Likely Cause: Loss of power, low hissing noise when buildign boost, probable boost leak

Modifications: Perrin Catback only

Submitted For Warranty Work (Yes/No): Yes, as of tommorrow

Reason Given For Denial: Dunno yet, hoping they don't get silly on the catback

Your Story: Accelerating uphill in 3rd when a got a loud noise similar to a boy racer BOV or an airbrake. Now have a loud, low pitched hissing when trying to build boost, occassionally with the airbrake sound mixed in. She's going to the dealer tomorrow, will see what happens.
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Old 08-04-2009, 02:52 PM   #1472
TFBHTMFSNE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexyGirl View Post
Wait a minute...

Subaru paid for something you admit you screwed up and Subaru is wrong?

They weren't looking for a reason not to cover it. They know a defect vs. abuse/neglect when they see it. They knew you were wrong, but, to satisfy you, they covered half.

So, why do they suck again?

What is this world coming to?
RexyGirl, don't lose sleep over this. Subaru really doesn't need customers who abuse their cars on a racetrack (BTW, nice admission that he doesn't know how to drive!) then go to dealers and create a stink, knowing full well they are dead wrong.
The world is just coming to a bunch of whining idiots who can't accept responsibility for their own actions.

Now I'll just sit in my flamesuit and wait....

Last edited by TFBHTMFSNE; 08-04-2009 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 08-04-2009, 03:53 PM   #1473
blackfang
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I think his problem lies with Subaru telling him that gear fluid caused the failure, when the guy knew it was not true being the failure was caused because he was racing it, and broke it. It comes down to a misdiagnoses by Subaru on the cause of failure.
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:30 PM   #1474
hcsi99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TFBHTMFSNE View Post
RexyGirl, don't lose sleep over this. Subaru really doesn't need customers who abuse their cars on a racetrack (BTW, nice admission that he doesn't know how to drive!) then go to dealers and create a stink, knowing full well they are dead wrong.
The world is just coming to a bunch of whining idiots who can't accept responsibility for their own actions.

Now I'll just sit in my flamesuit and wait....
You aren't going to need the flame suit. It was my first track event and in the rain. My first timing spinning a car out at 60+ mph. I had no trouble with the dealer. It was the rep from Subaru. The tech only did what he was told and that was contact Subaru with the info he had in order to get auth to repair the trans. Your missing my point. Subaru claim the wrong fluid caused my failure when clearly it didn't. Me having the car on a track has nothing to do with that. I've learned my lesson about taking my daily driver out for track days. The car has 98,000 mile on now and runs great. I still auto-x the heck out of it but don't abuse my car. There is a fine line between abuse and driving a car fast. But thanks for your input and judging me with out knowing me. That's what's forums are for. If your hosting any driving schools I'd love to sign up since, well I'm sure you've never made a mistake in your car especially on a track.
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:39 PM   #1475
Stealth WRX
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Originally Posted by sajohnson View Post
These tales continue to amaze me. Why would a dealer tell a lie (about the O2 sensor in this case) that is demonstrably false? I mean, if you're gonna lie at least make it believable!

I'm not a lawsuit happy person but sometimes that's the only way to get satisfaction.

It's a real shame. It wasn't this way until relatively recently. It used to be that the customer was always (ok, usually) right. Now, there seems to be some sort of adversarial relationship between customers and mfrs.

Mfrs assume that all of their customers are out to screw them, or that they are stupid enough to believe the bs they tell them (they all do that, it's your fault, etc).

I think it's too bad that you've had to sue them (twice!) but I commend you for sticking to your guns and fighting them.

Good luck.
It is true and very provable. I have the pictures to prove it and the legal paperwork. I can start by posting the e-mail from Subaru dealer #2 who took the pictures if my account allows me to. If not I will be happy to forward the proof to someone who can post it.

And it is a shame that Subaru has taken the position that they have. At some point it will effect their business. Is is the nature of things. Look at GM. High price, poor quality, and the only way they can stay in business is to have the government bail them out.

But going back to Subaru and the current case, I took pictures and documented EVERY trip to the dealer. The dealer avoided giving me receipts when they worked on my car a couple of times. In Pennsylvania, (and maybe elsewhere), it is AGAINST THE LAW for the dealer to refuse to give you a receipt. So WHEN Subaru denies that I have enought receipts to sue them under the law, I am going to provide the judge with proof that I did visit the dealer and complain about my car and that I DID ask for receipts and was not given one. Now Subaru AND the dealer have additional legal problems.

Last edited by Stealth WRX; 08-04-2009 at 06:54 PM.
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