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Old 10-15-2012, 12:41 PM   #1
MoreGone
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Default Can I add drop in to Stage 1? - '10 WRX

Hello,

First I did search and couldn't find my scenario.

I have a Stage 1 flash and fortunately for me someone stole my AP so I can no longer flash my car so I am stuck here and I don't feel like buying another.

I have a TurboXS cat back and am wondering if I could add a aFe Drop in or similar and benefit from it or if I should just keep with the stock.

Thanks
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:45 PM   #2
ColeBerkenbile
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I'v ran a dropin with Cobb and tp stage 1 and tp stage 2 with no problems. People will tell you not to, but as long as its not overoiled it shouldn't cause problems. Can't go wrong with the paper filters, but is rather wash my k&n than replace a paper
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:48 PM   #3
MoreGone
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I was actually wanting to go with aFe to get an oil-less version. I had a Cat converter go out on a vehicle with only 30k and the mechanic attributed it to the K&N intake so I have stayed away from oiled since.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:59 PM   #4
ColeBerkenbile
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Sounds like a good plan. I don't think you'd be doing any harm with a drop in. if you have a way to log and check for knock, I would
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:50 AM   #5
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I'd say a drop-in won't change any of the dynamics enough to cause any kind of issue.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:55 AM   #6
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Drop in is fine.
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:53 PM   #7
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^+1 you will be fine
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:05 PM   #8
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FYI: Cobb's notes state stock intake and stock air filter only.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:35 PM   #9
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I think that's more of a liability deal on their part. Anything that could potentially cause a problem their not gona recommend. But iv seen a lot of people, myself included, running a drop in with no problems
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWP n Gold View Post
FYI: Cobb's notes state stock intake and stock air filter only.

Cobb is playing it safe for sure.

I have experience with K&N drop ins on these cars. I put one in my brothers 2010 WRX(yep same car as me) after I did a stage 1 tune for him. I checked up on the ECU to make sure everything was in line. The only thing I noticed was the fuel trims for cell B went up 1% and the peak boost went up about .2 psi. These gains are so negligible it could have just been due to the air temp or density.

Trust me, you will be just fine with a drop in.
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:15 PM   #11
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Filters are fine, just be aware that you are going to net 0 HP for your trouble and are letting in 900000% more dirt into your engine. Aftermarket filters do as good of a job as replacing your OEM paper filter with a spaghetti colander.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:03 PM   #12
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Above post is perhaps a slight exaggeration, but I concur.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:11 PM   #13
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More than a few tuners have noted significant AFR changes from drop in panel filters. There was a post a year or two ago where somebody did back to back logs with the stock and the aftermarket panel filter, showing about a half a point swing in WOT AFR with the aftermarket panel filter. He even went back and forth a few times to verify.

In fact, every single person who I've talked to who has ever done any ACTUAL testing has shown about a half a point change in WOT AFR with drop in panel filters on our cars.

I wouldn't do it, but that's just me. You're just screwing up the AFR and gaining absolutely nothing in return. Where's the benefit?
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:16 AM   #14
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^ That's why I don't agree with responses like "I run an aftermarket filter on my OTS Stage 1 tune and it's fine". Did you do some datalogging to make sure, or do you think everything's fine just because you didn't blow anything up?

Edit: Rallysport Directs opinion:

Quote:
DO NOT USE DROP IN AFTERMARKET filters on the 2008+ Subarus PERIOD!

We have done testing to see the effects of doing this on a car that was not tuned for a drop in filter. And the Air Fuel Ration will lean out by .5:1 ( And thats just from a drop if filter)
So unless you are tuned for a drop in filter, stick with the factory unit.
The Stock ECU is already running lean, so this will cause detonation to occur.
Even OTS maps from Cobb state NOT TO use any sort of drop in filter. HKS, K&N, AVO, and so forth are not as restrictive as the stock unit. Throwing off the tune.

Here is a dyno plot from a Stg2 OTS with a Drop in filter unturned vs a Stg2 pro-tuned for the Filter. (dont look at the power numbers. But look at the AF's)

Last edited by SWP n Gold; 10-17-2012 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:33 AM   #15
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Mr. Egg Roll

I did not notice any change in WOT AFR with a K&N drop in. I wonder what the difference was that I did not see the behavior other tuners have noticed?

Not arguing your statement at all, just wondering why I did not see a half a point AFR change at WOT. I did notice a very slight change in the long term fuel trims when going to the drop in filter but it was in range with the variations the car usually has based on air temp and density.

Food for thought, when I tune, I usually make sure that the MAF curve is adjusted so that the ECU always has a negative value in fuel trim cell "D". Then I tune the WOT AFR a bit richer than I target for and allow the ECU to start adding a negative value to the "D" cell. And I watch the WOT AFR settle over a about 100 miles and get progressively leaner to fall in line with my real target AFR. This ensures the ECU will never start adding fuel because of the fuel trims at WOT. It's just my style, so maybe this is why I did not notice anything out of the ordinary with a drop in.

I do not have enough experience with tuning just drop in filters to even consider disagreeing with the tuners that do this for a living. I can only share my experiences.
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