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Old 10-24-2013, 10:36 PM   #1
gary p
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Default 2002 - 2005 WRX to G-Street...Is it time?

The 02-05 2.0 WRX hase become severely outgunned in DS. Things are likely to get tougher in the near future when the 2015 WRX comes to market as well as other cars with similar performance potential. I believe it is time to push for a move for the old WRX's to G-Street.

I know, I know, people are going to complain that the car can "put down the power on street tires" like nothing else in the class. And in a straight line it's true; the WRX would have the best launch in the class. In the corners, however, the WRX is prone to inside wheel spin like an open diff FWD car. By the time the silly-putty limited slip differentials get the power delivery sorted out, you are well beyond needing the help. Even in a straight line 30-60 roll-on-throttle acceleration, the WRX wouldn't be the fastest car in the class. The Focus ST with 270 ft/lbs of torque would probably claim that honor. Speaking of corners, the car is hampered by ridiculously narrow wheels for the weight, and rides on a long travel suspension that is quite soft by today's standards. It rolls in corners and flops side to side in transitions like a car from another era....which it exactly what it is. It certainly lacks the handling precision of many of the newer GS cars.

What are your thoughts? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Or is there a winnable argument to be made (later next year, after the dust has settled on the Stock/Street re-organization) that it's time to move the old WRX's down a class?
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Last edited by gary p; 10-24-2013 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:58 PM   #2
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Just saw the first dyno chart for the Fiesta ST. Puts down more peak torque than a stock EJ205 WRX....and weighs about 450 lbs less
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Old 10-25-2013, 07:27 AM   #3
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Obviously you should wait the year out and see what happens. Even then you will raise the question, what to do with the N/A Impreza? Move them to HS? Which probably should happen anyway but....
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:19 PM   #4
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Write the letter, who knows where it could go.

With that said, right now the thinking has been that DS is now the AWD and FWD too fast for GS class. We even discussed an idea of moving down the Evo/STI from BS to DS to complete that formula as the thinking the TT is probably similar in speed to those and the new WRX might be closer to that level (time will tell). However at this moment there seems to be little motivation to move those particular cars or anything else until we see how 2014 plays out. But again, I'm just one of the several minds involved so don't judge it entirely based on my very personal opinion. With that personal opinion in mind, I wouldn't be interested in such a move at this time, I'd like to make sure the hot hatches have a place to play and to add others to the mix for now until we really understand their potential before adding a completely different formula car to that class.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:04 AM   #5
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How many stock legal 02-05 WRX's are there today? Let's face it, you aren't likely to find a decent 02-05 that hasn't been modded up already. And then the other pushback you will get is why are you making the potential car for the class a 10+ year old subie?

But as been said, write the letter, but don't get your hopes up.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:18 PM   #6
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I don't think for a minute the WRX would be "the car for the class" anywhere other than maybe a Pro Solo
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:10 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by gary p View Post
The 02-05 2.0 WRX hase become severely outgunned in DS. Things are likely to get tougher in the near future when the 2015 WRX comes to market as well as other cars with similar performance potential. I believe it is time to push for a move for the old WRX's to G-Street.

I know, I know, people are going to complain that the car can "put down the power on street tires" like nothing else in the class. And in a straight line it's true; the WRX would have the best launch in the class. In the corners, however, the WRX is prone to inside wheel spin like an open diff FWD car. By the time the silly-putty limited slip differentials get the power delivery sorted out, you are well beyond needing the help. Even in a straight line 30-60 roll-on-throttle acceleration, the WRX wouldn't be the fastest car in the class. The Focus ST with 270 ft/lbs of torque would probably claim that honor. Speaking of corners, the car is hampered by ridiculously narrow wheels for the weight, and rides on a long travel suspension that is quite soft by today's standards. It rolls in corners and flops side to side in transitions like a car from another era....which it exactly what it is. It certainly lacks the handling precision of many of the newer GS cars.

What are your thoughts? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Or is there a winnable argument to be made (later next year, after the dust has settled on the Stock/Street re-organization) that it's time to move the old WRX's down a class?
Yep, I agree.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:38 PM   #8
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I don't think for a minute the WRX would be "the car for the class" anywhere other than maybe a Pro Solo
So you're saying it goes from an also-ran in DS to an also-ran in GS?
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Old 10-29-2013, 09:49 PM   #9
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are there even any "stock" 02-05 WRXs still out there?

edit: post 5 beat me to it
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:38 AM   #10
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So you're saying it goes from an also-ran in DS to an also-ran in GS?
What's "the car to have" in GS now? There isn't one. I think the WRX becomes one of the cars in the mix that, well prepped and well driven, is capable of contending for trophy. Something that's pretty much out of the realm of possibility in DS.

Don't put words in my mouth.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:32 AM   #11
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What's "the car to have" in GS now? There isn't one. I think the WRX becomes one of the cars in the mix that, well prepped and well driven, is capable of contending for trophy. Something that's pretty much out of the realm of possibility in DS.

Don't put words in my mouth.
And what happens when some alien jumps in and puts a second or two on the field in one? The lemming effect is powerful.

But even disregarding that, if you want this to happen you need to put together some quantitative data that shows that it will be "in the mix". Stuff like weight, wheel width, hp, tq, acceleration, gearing, etc and how it compares to other GS cars. Then you also need to show that there is some demand out there. You also need to counter the argument that GS is typically FWD cars, and how the introduction of an AWD car won't destabilize that. Add to that you are asking for a 10+ year old car, that has a reputation for not being kept close to stock or even ST legal, to be added to the competitive mix in a class that is already going through a significant change.

Seems like a futile effort to me. My guess is that the response will be: "Thank you for your feedback. The SAC feels that the 02-05 WRX is classed appropriately in DS."
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:38 PM   #12
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And what happens when some alien jumps in and puts a second or two on the field in one?

If that was possible, why hasn't our theoretical alien been winning DS with an old WRX all along? Because 1-2 seconds a day faster than GS is DS-winning speed. I don't believe the car has that kind of speed, no matter who's behind the wheel.
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Old 11-02-2013, 03:27 PM   #13
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are there even any "stock" 02-05 WRXs still out there?

edit: post 5 beat me to it
Yep. Few and far between, I am one of the few.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:12 AM   #14
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How many stock legal 02-05 WRX's are there today? Let's face it, you aren't likely to find a decent 02-05 that hasn't been modded up already.
Count me into the small group of stock Bugeye's... I was actually thinking about getting my feet wet in DStock this year, but is that a bad idea then??
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:01 AM   #15
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Count me into the small group of stock Bugeye's... I was actually thinking about getting my feet wet in DStock this year, but is that a bad idea then??
Have you autocrossed before? If not, then it's always a good idea to jump in with the car you have, in the state it's currently in, provided it's safe of course. Try it a few times and see if you like it and how competitive you want to be. If you are just out to have fun, most likely your car will be fine. If you decide that you want to get serious, then you will have to decide if your car is the right tool for that.

With the change away from Hoosiers next year, I don't think anyone knows where these different cars will shake out competitiveness-wise.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:02 AM   #16
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^^ pretty much exactly the advice I always give.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:47 AM   #17
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Cool, thanks for the heads up. I'm a college kid with about 12 years of racing experience looking to get back into competitive racing, but on a college budget (hence stock class haha). Next step, scouring forums for tire tips... I'm thinking BFG R1's right now. I figure I can use em up before they switch to the Street tire rules.
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:33 AM   #18
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Street tires start next year. Save the money and just buy some decent summer tires instead.
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:14 AM   #19
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If I'm looking at this right (http://www.scca.com/news/index.cfm?cid=51652) stock class is going to the be the same for 2014, and then gone in 2015. Yes?
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:00 AM   #20
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If I'm looking at this right (http://www.scca.com/news/index.cfm?cid=51652) stock class is going to the be the same for 2014, and then gone in 2015. Yes?
2014 will be a hybrid/transition year for the stock/street classes. If you want to run r-compounds in 2014, you can in the "Street-R" version of your class. In the case of your car, you could run "DSR" as opposed to "DS".

In 2015, "Street-R" classes will go away with the exception of "SSR" (Super Street-R) where most of the more expensive, high HP cars will play (Corvettes, GT3s, Vipers, etc). For everyone else there will only be the "Street" classes with 200 tread-wear tires.

The 2014 transition year was really meant to appease those who have made investments in tires and car prep based on the old rules. It sounds like you're starting fresh, so that's why it was suggested that you buy your tires according to the new rules. Plus those tires are cheaper and last longer!
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:32 PM   #21
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Our G classed cars are almost all Subaru's (2 CRX's) at the NER region of the SCCA. About 6 of us ran G classed subaru's in RTA this year, all of us stock legal, in years ranging from my 01 to 08's. Playing with the WRX's, TT's, R32's (VW) STi's and Evo's in RTA I'm not sure that the GD WRX's are a real strong fit for GS. This is just from my limited auto-x experience though, so take it how you please.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:23 PM   #22
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What's "the car to have" in GS now? There isn't one.
Brand new audi A6 V6 S/C. 450hp and not much heavier than the wrx, awd, decent width tires. Its a big fat pig, but its a big fat pig with twice as much tire and twice as much power as anything else in the class. It belongs in DS or FS.
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:04 PM   #23
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Brand new audi A6 V6 S/C. 450hp and not much heavier than the wrx, awd, decent width tires. Its a big fat pig, but its a big fat pig with twice as much tire and twice as much power as anything else in the class. It belongs in DS or FS.
And for everyone else without $60k in their pockets.

Focus ST
Celica GT or GTS
SRT4 ACR

Pick one of those and you'll be doing decently in GS.

I do not think the 02-05 WRX would do well against any of those, but it'd do better than where it is in DS.
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:16 PM   #24
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60k? nah just do a 1 year lease and return it.
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Brand new audi A6 V6 S/C. 450hp and not much heavier than the wrx, awd, decent width tires. Its a big fat pig, but its a big fat pig with twice as much tire and twice as much power as anything else in the class. It belongs in DS or FS.
Do you get any of your facts correct?

The new supercharged A6 makes 310hp, and weighs 4100+ pounds. And would fall under the A6 listing in GS. The S6 has a supercharged V8 making 420hp and weighs 4400 pounds. And is classed in FS, under the NOC listing at the end.
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