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Old 09-17-2012, 02:08 AM   #1
keepclam
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Forester No orders for 2013 Forester after 9/19

Joe Spitz at cars101 says...
Quote:
2013 Forester order system will end Wednesday 9/19, 5pm. After that, the 2013 Forester can't be ordered anymore. Dealers will have a good supply for a while but don't hesitate if there's one you want, This means the redesigned 2014s are getting closer.
Oh boy! Always excited to see new Subie models.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:06 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
Joe Spitz at cars101 says...


Oh boy! Always excited to see new Subie models.

Wow...that's within a couple of days it kinda gives credence to all the information circling the web regarding a half year model run, followed by the quick release of the 2014 Forester in early 2013.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:08 AM   #3
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Nice, interested to see what the new Forester looks like! Sucks for those who bought a 2013 not knowing the short run, though.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:16 AM   #4
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Nice, interested to see what the new Forester looks like! Sucks for those who bought a 2013 not knowing the short run, though.


Anybody buying a new Forester with a 4EAT has other issues... like total auto-buying stupidity.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:22 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post


Anybody buying a new Forester with a 4EAT has other issues... like total auto-buying stupidity.
Long term durability of the Subaru CVT is still an unknown. These ancient 4EATs are pretty darn durable at least.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:27 PM   #6
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Anybody buying a new Forester with a 4EAT has other issues... like total auto-buying stupidity.
The 4EAT is pretty reliable and the Forester has a lot of usable space for the exterior size of the vehicle. While being a few thousand cheaper than the Outback.

Also while the MPGs aren't great, I don't think it is as far separated from the current CVT MPG numbers as the EPA would lead people to believe. I say this because I drive a 2012 CVT Impreza and also drive a Outback with the 4EAT.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:40 PM   #7
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It's a fine transmission.. for 20 years ago.
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:51 PM   #8
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The 4EAT is pretty reliable and the Forester has a lot of usable space for the exterior size of the vehicle. While being a few thousand cheaper than the Outback.

Also while the MPGs aren't great, I don't think it is as far separated from the current CVT MPG numbers as the EPA would lead people to believe. I say this because I drive a 2012 CVT Impreza and also drive a Outback with the 4EAT.
This is the biggest concern. If the CVT takes a reliability hit while not delivering a significant improvement in fuel economy (leaving the argument re driving experience aside for now), it won't bode well for sales. Some folks will give up having bleeding-edge technology and better MPG for having a car that stays out of the shop both before and after the warranty expires.
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:56 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by lark6 View Post
This is the biggest concern. If the CVT takes a reliability hit while not delivering a significant improvement in fuel economy (leaving the argument re driving experience aside for now), it won't bode well for sales. Some folks will give up having bleeding-edge technology and better MPG for having a car that stays out of the shop both before and after the warranty expires.
Subaru has a 5EAT as well. The fact that they've kept selling the 4EAT is amusing.. while people still buying them is sad.
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:58 PM   #10
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Subaru has a 5EAT as well. The fact that they've kept selling the 4EAT is amusing.. while people still buying them is sad.
Isn't the 5EAT tuned for higher HP applications? At least the North American one.

Because yeah, I would love to have another gear in the Outback, but it is not the end of the world. The 4EAT doesn't have a good set of gear ratios for highway driving on anything except flat ground.

Last edited by ocellaris; 09-17-2012 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:03 PM   #11
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Subaru has a 5EAT as well. The fact that they've kept selling the 4EAT is amusing.. while people still buying them is sad.
Yep, and I've never understood why they haven't made their way into Foresters.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:33 PM   #12
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Anybody buying a new Forester with a 4EAT has other issues... like total auto-buying stupidity.
Another maunally-a-retard loser who thinks manuals are the only way to shift. Please, stay ignorant for the sake of everyone's jokes on you.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:07 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post


Anybody buying a new Forester with a 4EAT has other issues... like total auto-buying stupidity.
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Originally Posted by A W View Post
Another maunally-a-retard loser who thinks manuals are the only way to shift. Please, stay ignorant for the sake of everyone's jokes on you.
I think your criticism was a bit premature... pretty sure Calamity Jesus meant "car-buying" when he said "auto-buying"... you know, synonyms, "auto" and "car". Obviously Subaru has to sell cars with automatic transmissions. The complaint is that the 4EAT is outdated, if durable.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:27 AM   #14
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The complaint is that the 4EAT is outdated, if durable.

The only complaints I have ever heard about the 4EAT are from NASIOC.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:29 AM   #15
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Wow...that's within a couple of days it kinda gives credence to all the information circling the web regarding a half year model run, followed by the quick release of the 2014 Forester in early 2013.

I am guessing February/March like the current one was in 2008.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:31 AM   #16
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I think your criticism was a bit premature... pretty sure Calamity Jesus meant "car-buying" when he said "auto-buying"... you know, synonyms, "auto" and "car". Obviously Subaru has to sell cars with automatic transmissions. The complaint is that the 4EAT is outdated, if durable.
The fact that they offer AWD that actually works, turbo, and an automatic at this price point is niche-like and a nice option in my opinion. I'm not interested in shifting a CUV through it's own gears. Maybe if I was in a sports sedan or coupe but not in a CUV. I prefer automatics anyways. Regardless of whether he meant auto as in "car" or auto as in "automatic transmission", it's the same reasoning for his derogatory terms towards buying a 4EAT from Subaru.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:10 AM   #17
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The fact that they offer AWD that actually works, turbo, and an automatic at this price point is niche-like and a nice option in my opinion. I'm not interested in shifting a CUV through it's own gears. Maybe if I was in a sports sedan or coupe but not in a CUV. I prefer automatics anyways. Regardless of whether he meant auto as in "car" or auto as in "automatic transmission", it's the same reasoning for his derogatory terms towards buying a 4EAT from Subaru.
Maybe I'm just used to Calamity's caustic words by now, so I shrugged 'em off. Maybe he was a little harsh. I'm an automatic buyer/driver like you, and I wouldn't buy a new 4EAT right now solely because I think the CVT is a major upgrade. That's all. Carry on.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:41 AM   #18
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4EAT... not equipped on any car with more than ~230hp, and aside from very few with VTD, most are Active AWD, with 90% front bias.

And ask SVX owners how reliable they are, with an EG33 corked down to 230hp... it still heats and eventually burns the fluid, and it has to be changed more often than suggested to keep the transaxle from failing. And the front diffs go, too, with that H6 torque being sent through it most often. Subaru didn't have a manual that could hold up to that engine in 1992... but the 4EAT BARELY holds up itself.

Forester and Impreza GT, and others that use that transaxle are also limited to 230hp or less. The cars most reliable with that gearbox, are atmospheric flat 4s, with less than 200hp, which the transaxle was originally designed for.

The 5EAT at least has a capacity somewhere around 250-260hp, and associated torque, but even some of those develop issues behind the EZ36. At least it has the more advanced VTD-AWD.

There really isn't a believable reason that I have heard for why Forester XT was not offered with buyer's choice of 5EAT and '10-12 Legacy 6MT, and the 268hp tune EJ255 engine, especially AFTER BP Outback XT was cancelled after MY2009, and internal competition was eliminated. Forester XT should have picked up that mantle, and carried it. Even if it wasn't an STI... it should have been at least that.

Forester S-Edition in Australia IS that, although 5EAT only. Even with Legacy Spec.B's blue alcantara seats.


CVT may be an upgrade over a 4EAT, if this third iteration is reliable. However, that is hardly bragging rights to tout, and I am more interested in what version of AWD hardware it will have.

It is being noticed, and reported in the media, that fewer people, especially fewer young people are buying cars AT ALL... and the baby-boomers that pushed the retro muscle car craze are retiring and buying fewer cars also, and the retro phase is waning a bit...

At some point enthusiasts will be the only ones left interested in buying new cars. Some of them still seek manual gearboxes. Subaru may want to remember it, and not kill off all of them.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:42 AM   #19
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Hip, for the love of God, will you PLEASE stop showing off that sexy beast!?!!??
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:27 AM   #20
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Another maunally-a-retard loser who thinks manuals are the only way to shift. Please, stay ignorant for the sake of everyone's jokes on you.
Looking for a fight much, brodawg?

I bought a 2010 vehicle with an automatic transmission just this past month. I currently own a 1992 Legacy with a 4EAT and a '06 Mazda5 with a 4EAT. You missed the point of my comment entirely before you went off on your idiotic name-calling session.

The 4EAT being sold in the 2013 Subaru Forester is the same transmission that debuted on the 1992 Subaru Legacy. Yup, that was 21 years ago. The Forester is the only vehicle in Subaru's lineup still using that antiquated relic from the pre-OBDII days and it has been the only vehicle in the segment saddled with a 4 speed automatic as the only auto option. The Honda CR-V got a 5 speed automatic in 2004 (that's 9 model years ago, to those of you keeping score at home).. and the Toyota RAV4 got a 5 speed auto for the upgraded engine in 2006 (7 years ago).

The only thing Subaru has addressed with the Forester since it was redesigned in '09 was to add a seat height adjustment to the passenger side since the '09 seat was mounted so low that shorter passengers were getting motion sickness riding in them. It needs some serious updates.. and I pity anyone buying a '13 model because it's not competitive with other new car offerings.



Yes, the 4EAT can be a very durable transmission (assuming it has a cooler fitted)... but it significantly slows down the vehicle compared to a 5 speed transmission or CVT and hurts fuel efficiency (which is a major deal in today's market).
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:50 PM   #21
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[quote=Calamity Jesus;38074158]...buying a '13 model because it's not competitive with other new car offerings.
quote]


Please elaborate.

Are you talking JUST about MPG?
I'm curious because if it is sooooo bad, why are people STILL buying it? The average Subaru buyer(especially ours) does comparative shopping. They must be finding something about those other "better" cars that they don't like. Obviously there is something about this car that they do like or it wouldn't have the sales it does. For an AWD vehicle, the MPG is still competative. Sure, others have finally surpased Subaru, but since the 4EAT is sooo old, I think that is pretty good.

With that said, I think the next Forester will be as big a hit as the current Impreza.
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:04 PM   #22
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Yep, and I've never understood why they haven't made their way into Foresters.
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
4EAT... not equipped on any car with more than ~230hp, and aside from very few with VTD, most are Active AWD, with 90% front bias.
Wishful thinking on my part maybe, but I recall early FXTs being dynoed at ~240 despite being advertised at 210?


Quote:
Forester S-Edition in Australia IS that, although 5EAT only. Even with Legacy Spec.B's blue alcantara seats.

Makes me wonder often whether the US market - Subaru's biggest - gets played for fools.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:28 PM   #23
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[quote=JustyWRC;38075340]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
...buying a '13 model because it's not competitive with other new car offerings.
quote]


Please elaborate.

Are you talking JUST about MPG?
I'm curious because if it is sooooo bad, why are people STILL buying it? The average Subaru buyer(especially ours) does comparative shopping. They must be finding something about those other "better" cars that they don't like. Obviously there is something about this car that they do like or it wouldn't have the sales it does. For an AWD vehicle, the MPG is still competative. Sure, others have finally surpased Subaru, but since the 4EAT is sooo old, I think that is pretty good.

With that said, I think the next Forester will be as big a hit as the current Impreza.
To be fair, the Toyota Corolla sells very well, and many would argue its the worst car in the compact segment. I personally have not researched much into the CUV market, but I wonder if the Forester has an edge in offering AWD in lower trim levels?
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:55 PM   #24
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[quote=Engineer99;38076680]
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post

To be fair, the Toyota Corolla sells very well, and many would argue its the worst car in the compact segment. I personally have not researched much into the CUV market, but I wonder if the Forester has an edge in offering AWD in lower trim levels?
The Forester starts at $20,900 with AWD (obviously), it has a price advantage over most other AWD CUVs. Heck, some CUVs have a higher MSRP for FWD models...
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:18 PM   #25
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[quote=ocellaris;38076955]
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The Forester starts at $20,900 with AWD (obviously), it has a price advantage over most other AWD CUVs. Heck, some CUVs have a higher MSRP for FWD models...
That was my suspicion, thanks for the confirmation!
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