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Old 10-16-2012, 10:24 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Otobot View Post
Sorry if this has already been answered but I havent been following this thread. I noticed on some pics there are airdams on the left and right of the front bumper near the fog lights. There are also some pics without them. Is this some kind of trim diferentiation?

I actually kind of like these air dams, makes it look a bit more aggresive.


That is the XT and for the airflow needed for the turbo engine.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:07 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
That is the XT and for the airflow needed for the turbo engine.

Oh really?.....
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:38 AM   #253
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LOL. I'm not convinced those slit things have anything to do with anything.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:00 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
I will miss the hood scoop. I assume that the XT will have a TMIC and similar ducting as the XV Diesel.

Off tangent but is that a production car? The paintwork on the underside of the hood and on the strut towers is really sloppy.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:24 AM   #255
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Off tangent but is that a production car? The paintwork on the underside of the hood and on the strut towers is really sloppy.
That's typical Impreza paint right there. The color and it's required primer are why the light grey is so obvious. Go look under an STi/WRX/Forester hood. IIRC, the US made Legacies/Outbacks have better, or full coverage under the hood. Even my Bimmer's under hood looks like hell - not quite that bad, but on par with a WRB WRX. Cost savings.
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Old 10-17-2012, 08:30 AM   #256
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Loafing outside eh? So much for journalism these days. Anyways, to set the story straight, the pics are taken supposedly using some hefty zoom lens. The cars are in the Ohta factory grounds. There's also speculation that Subaru may be behind these pics since we don't typically see this kind of leak with suby.
I think it would be safe to assume that just about any "leaked" pics from a car company are orchestrated to some point. Sure there are some pics from folks like KGP Photography tha might be truely "spy" shots and the like, but I have trouble believing they aren't mostly staged. Look at all the recent "caught" pics from Death Valley. They weren't "caught", they were staged. Were all the Subaru folks out to lunch or something and just left their mule cars sitting around in the desert...not a single person in any of the shots, except a few reflections.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:17 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
That is the XT and for the airflow needed for the turbo engine.
I doubt they are actual intakes. If the car had duel FMIC like the old S4 or the Fiat 500 MultiAir I could see it, but it doesn't. More of an aggressive design than anything else.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:19 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
That is the XT and for the airflow needed for the turbo engine.
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Oh really?.....
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
LOL. I'm not convinced those slit things have anything to do with anything.
If the leaked brochure photos posted a couple weeks ago here are to be trusted (which I do), they clearly show the XT has the airdams and the non-turbo does not.

Not sure why there is so much debate and disbelief here what they are.

ONE CAVEAT: In the past, it has been common to see slightly different bumpers for the North American market in order to meet U.S. crash standards. This means the U.S. Forester could have slightly different bumper design and/or overall length, which we have yet to see/confirm. For example, I know this is the case for the 2010+ Outback.
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:22 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by eps105 View Post
If the leaked brochure photos posted a couple weeks ago here are to be trusted (which I do), they clearly show the XT has the airdams and the non-turbo does not.

Not sure why there is so much debate and disbelief here what they are.

ONE CAVEAT: In the past, it has been common to see slightly different bumpers for the North American market in order to meet U.S. crash standards. This means the U.S. Forester could have slightly different bumper design and/or overall length, which we have yet to see/confirm. For example, I know this is the case for the 2010+ Outback.
They aren't questionning that it differentiates the XT and 2.0i models, they are questionning if the slits are functional for the Turbo - which they probably aren't as all Subarus us a TMIC, even the XV Diesel (no hood scoop).
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:35 PM   #260
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It's called "investment". They're investing in the new customers to make new money, then BAM! Hit us with the STI line-up for ALL models!
See, there is the philosophical problem.

They are trying to get NEW customers, by offering the same blandness.

The '14 Forester looks like just another Escape/RAV4/CRV... and yet doesn't out-do them at anything... and if the specs are much like current Forester, will struggle to even be on-par.

New customers to subaru... but the customer pool isn't growing. Economically, fewer households have the economic buying power for a new car, and fewer young people care about cars in general. the customer pool is stagnant, if not shallowing.

So they are fighting for the same customers as are already shopping other brands, which all offer something in this segment.

Plus, Subaru is also trying to sell the XV Crosstrek to somewhat of the same customer pool.

Yet, what is Forester's advantage? The looks aren't... it looks like a copy of a copy, of a copy. Entirely derivative.

If the current trends on the new FB and FA series engines hold true... it probably won't have class-leading power.

Even if it has on-par fuel economy... fuel economy isn't always the end-all-be-all of everyone's priority list, if it means the vehicle will be weak on other expectations.

With a CVT, perhaps ONLY a CVT... it isn't going to be a stout utility vehicle with a great towing rating for it's size, and the AWD will likely be on par with the class of transverse engined competitors.

Plus, Forester is currently one of Subaru's top sellers. If they ruin it, or fail to compete with other vehicles in the class... they lose big. AND it is harder to improve sales number on a vehicle that is already selling about as well as can be expected to sell.

So, I am wondering, where the big advantage for Forester is, that it will tout in order to win "new" customers.

It doesn't seem to be trying to set itself above the pack of it's competitors, not even in Subaru's known reputation for better AWD systems and AWD performance.

Subaru COULD set itself apart with a truly sporty model... but XT isn't looking to be that. The visual changes are not that impressive, and the technical details would have to be WRX or STI grade, which is unlikely. We would probably have seen an S-Edition or XTI swan-song model for the outgoing SH, if Subaru were planning to move this new Forester into a performance position similar to Range Rover Sport, or Explorer EcoBoost, or Jeep SRT8, but smaller-scale.

The USDM doesn't even get the new FA20DIT engine in an SH Forester XT that Japan and EU are getting as a swan-song model, let alone the Australian-available S-Edition with 268hp and the 5EAT/VTD transaxle. No special swan-song model for the SH Forester in it's largest-selling market, at all.

A halo Forester along-side a more focused next-gen WRX STI might actually be compelling, and sell a few more standard Foresters by association. (Hence why SOA is unlikely to do it. )

As of now, I am not seeing anything more compelling about Forester than Escape, CX5, or CR-V.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 10-17-2012 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:43 PM   #261
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If the leaked brochure photos posted a couple weeks ago here are to be trusted (which I do), they clearly show the XT has the airdams and the non-turbo does not.

Not sure why there is so much debate and disbelief here what they are.

ONE CAVEAT: In the past, it has been common to see slightly different bumpers for the North American market in order to meet U.S. crash standards. This means the U.S. Forester could have slightly different bumper design and/or overall length, which we have yet to see/confirm. For example, I know this is the case for the 2010+ Outback.
Huh? I think we can all see that the XT has a different bumper - that's not what we're debating. Are those slits actually FUNCTIONAL? I highly doubt it.
There's a rather large bumper beam in the way along with large headlights right above that. A plumbing nightmare. And for Subaru to move to any type of front mount IC, yet alone DUAL FMICS would be unheard of.

Hopefully I'm wrong and Subaru has engineered a better IC setup for their Impreza platform. I very highly doubt it. I think the deisel XV would be the "new" IC/ducting setup.

Pretty much what he said above me.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:44 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
That's typical Impreza paint right there. The color and it's required primer are why the light grey is so obvious. Go look under an STi/WRX/Forester hood. IIRC, the US made Legacies/Outbacks have better, or full coverage under the hood. Even my Bimmer's under hood looks like hell - not quite that bad, but on par with a WRB WRX. Cost savings.
I don't notice that on the underhood of mine, but then again mine is gray to begin with; maybe I've been happy in my ignorance all these years. I'll take a look at lunch.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:45 PM   #263
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You really have to think about these things differently, Hip. People are excited about these cars, even if you and I and others are not. They work. We can slam the design and structure all we want to, but they DO appeal and ARE selling. They're selling to the specific segment they're aimed at. Subaru used to not have that kind of pull, but since they do now they can afford to sell several variations of the same car (Impreza Sport, XV Crosstrek, Forester and Outback). People have choices now, and they all illuminate Subarus core image of "adventure".

We can hate, but we have to congratulate as well.

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Old 10-17-2012, 12:49 PM   #264
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low front mount turbo like the EE diesel, and Legacy's EJ, and the new FA20DIT... seems like a FMIC would be a decent decision, and more effective.

A bit of pipe-work around the right side of the radiator... but also, it would afford a forward-right facing intake manifold, especially with the power steering pump no longer needing to occupy that space, with the advent of electrically-driven assist for the steering rack.

It can't be that much more pipe length than from the turbo up and over the engine, to the TMIC, and a rear-left-facing intake manifold.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:55 PM   #265
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You really have to think about these things differently, Hip. People are excited about these cars, even if you and I and others are not. They work. We can slam the design and structure all we want to, but they DO appeal and ARE selling. They're selling to the specific segment they're aimed at. Subaru used to not have that kind of pull, but since they do now they can afford to sell several variations of the same car (Impreza Sport, XV Crosstrek, Forester and Outback). People have choices now, and they all illuminate Subarus core image of "adventure".

We can hate, but we have to congratulate as well.

Ib4"Idon'tHAVEtodoanything."
What people are excited about these? *Especially that wouldn't be just as excited, or MORESO, if these products were good enough to excite US, as well?*

The people that will be just as impressed when the new RAV4 debuts?, or the next Nissan Rogue with juke-inspired styling? Fickle people? Sunshine-fans who will move on to the next thing quickly? Hipsters? Who?

The people who like whatever happens to be new and shiny at the moment?

The new Subarus are no more adventureous in style or substance than anything else on the market in this class. That is the POINT.

These new Subarus are copying the looks and specifications of other boring appliances, it isn't as if they are copying the Land Rover Defender 90, or something that actually LOOKS like something that goes on adventures.

Congratulate what? The toyota-fication of a once interesting brand? That worked out so well for Toyota's image in the late 90s and 2000s. They aren't called "beige" as a derogatory term, now... oh, wait, they are. It is working out so well for Honda now... that couldn't be a compelling brand now if they wanted to.
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Old 10-17-2012, 01:18 PM   #266
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People on the boards, HERE. Go beyond News & Rumor. There are people picking up the Crosstrek and they're loving it, even commenting on how it has adequate power.

Also, my being a former 2011 WRX owner, I was always against your opposition to the design of the 3G WRX/STI. Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean Subaru has lost it. I didn't care UNTIL the 2011 WRX, and I wasn't alone. There are TONS of 2011+ WRX owners now. Same as 2012+ Impreza. THAT'S what we're congratulating: Sales increases. You might think they've gone more "bland", but that's your opinion. I respect your opinion, but don't toss it as fact.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:18 PM   #267
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Breaking sales records proves otherwise Hip. Subaru is obviously doing something right!
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:42 PM   #268
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I don't think you'd want to place functioning scoops that low, would you? Maybe OK on BRZ, but wouldn't it be a major issue with a vehicle like Forester that is more likely to see a water crossing? Sort of an anti-snorkel! I'll assume air flows through the grill until I see otherwise.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:54 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
They aren't questionning that it differentiates the XT and 2.0i models, they are questionning if the slits are functional for the Turbo - which they probably aren't as all Subarus us a TMIC, even the XV Diesel (no hood scoop).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Huh? I think we can all see that the XT has a different bumper - that's not what we're debating. Are those slits actually FUNCTIONAL? I highly doubt it.
There's a rather large bumper beam in the way along with large headlights right above that. A plumbing nightmare. And for Subaru to move to any type of front mount IC, yet alone DUAL FMICS would be unheard of.

Hopefully I'm wrong and Subaru has engineered a better IC setup for their Impreza platform. I very highly doubt it. I think the deisel XV would be the "new" IC/ducting setup.

Pretty much what he said above me.
Thanks all for setting me straight. I misinterpreted the context. I think I mixed up the sentiment here with comments in a different forum where someone had posted a question wondering if that bumper was possibly a "Sport"-trim variant on the non-turbo trim.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:58 PM   #270
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I agree you wouldn't want scoops that low and also on a production vehicle the topmount is probably the better choice. Less to repair in the event of a front end collision.
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Old 10-17-2012, 03:12 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
What people are excited about these? *Especially that wouldn't be just as excited, or MORESO, if these products were good enough to excite US, as well?*

The people that will be just as impressed when the new RAV4 debuts?, or the next Nissan Rogue with juke-inspired styling? Fickle people? Sunshine-fans who will move on to the next thing quickly? Hipsters? Who?

The people who like whatever happens to be new and shiny at the moment?

The new Subarus are no more adventureous in style or substance than anything else on the market in this class. That is the POINT.

These new Subarus are copying the looks and specifications of other boring appliances, it isn't as if they are copying the Land Rover Defender 90, or something that actually LOOKS like something that goes on adventures.

Congratulate what? The toyota-fication of a once interesting brand? That worked out so well for Toyota's image in the late 90s and 2000s. They aren't called "beige" as a derogatory term, now... oh, wait, they are. It is working out so well for Honda now... that couldn't be a compelling brand now if they wanted to.
Hip, I have to say, your last few posts are very cynical and emotional. Clearly, you're not happy with the direction Subaru is going.

The funny thing is, in all the years I've read various Subaru forums and followed the release of every new Outback, Legacy, Impreza, Crosstrek, Forester, etc., there's always a stereotypical vocal minority that scream bloody murder that Subaru is screwing up... and that they don't listen to their core customers... and that they're headed in the wrong direction... and that they're done with Subaru........

The consistent pattern that I see in these various rants is that enthusiasts allow their emotions and passion to overtake rational business sense.

No manufacturer makes decisions to piss off loyal owners, they make decisions to grow the business and make money. And if that means that it isn't profitable to federalize their diesel engine for the U.S., then they're not going to sell it in the U.S. for business reasons, not because they want to stick it to the customers that are willing to buy them.

In your comparisons to the RAV4 and Rogue and CR-V, you may overlook that those brands sell at like 10x the volume of Subaru. Subaru is bridging from a niche brand to a mainstream brand, but they can't do it too fast because they don't have the factory capacity for it. So, no, they're not going to conquest every customer that would otherwise buy a RAV-4 for Escape, but they don't have to.

In your cynicism that the Forester is less competitive than all the competition, you overlook the benefits. I'm loyal to Subaru, because no one (in my opinion) has the unique combination of reliability, performance, ease-of-use, practical design, safety, value, and fun-to-drive factor as Subaru.

I didn't buy the prev gen Forester only because I didn't like the cheap-ish interior, ancient 4EAT, and poor fuel economy. Yet, they still increased sales likely due to the others benefits I mentioned above. The new Forester appears to address all of those without compromising all of the other pros.

So in my opinion, Subaru has a VERY competitive product in the 2014 Forester and they are going to quickly sell every copy they make, just like the Impreza, Crosstrek, BRZ, and Outback have been doing!

Last edited by eps105; 10-17-2012 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 10-17-2012, 04:14 PM   #272
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Hip, I have to say, your last few posts are very cynical and emotional. Clearly, you're not happy with the direction Subaru is going.
No, I am not. Killing most of their performance options is akin to Toyota killing off MR2, Supra, Celica, and all of it's performance models... and going beige for a decade... then having to have Subaru build an affordable performance model for them, because they no longer have the platforms to do that.

Quote:
The funny thing is, in all the years I've read various Subaru forums and followed the release of every new Outback, Legacy, Impreza, Crosstrek, Forester, etc., there's always a stereotypical vocal minority that scream bloody murder that Subaru is screwing up... and that they don't listen to their core customers... and that they're headed in the wrong direction... and that they're done with Subaru........

The consistent pattern that I see in these various rants is that enthusiasts allow their emotions and passion to overtake rational business sense.
Outback, Legacy, Impreza, Crosstrek are not performance nameplates, but their performance variants, are all dead, save the remaining WRX/STI.

If the WRX STI is not everything to every Subaru performance enthusiast, which no model can really do by itself... Subaru will lose performance buyers, and have already.

Quote:
No manufacturer makes decisions to piss off loyal owners, they make decisions to grow the business and make money. And if that means that it isn't profitable to federalize their diesel engine for the U.S., then they're not going to sell it in the U.S. for business reasons, not because they want to stick it to the customers that are willing to buy them.
I have already mentioned toyota... What about Honda. They killed the NSX. They killed the S2000. They killed the RSX/Integra coupe. They killed the Prelude.

What does Honda have for loyal honda performance enthusiasts? Civic SI? CRZ is failing to live up to basic expectations.

Yes, manufacturers DO make decisions that end up pissing of loyal enthusiasts, whether that was the rationale or not.

Usually it is avarice for increased appliance sales... and love of money eclipsing the love of producing good products WORTH good money, at a higher value quotient. Sometimes more value at a small price increase is better than bottom-line thinking that is causing all of these companies to copy each other like the shallow end of the inbred automotive gene-pool.

Quote:
In your comparisons to the RAV4 and Rogue and CR-V, you may overlook that those brands sell at like 10x the volume of Subaru. Subaru is bridging from a niche brand to a mainstream brand, but they can't do it too fast because they don't have the factory capacity for it. So, no, they're not going to conquest every customer that would otherwise buy a RAV-4 for Escape, but they don't have to.
Those do sell at many times the volume... which is why they have better economies of scale, and can offer better appliances for lower prices than Subaru can.

Subaru USED to produce something at least uniquely capable to give it a value-added edge over other appliances.

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In your cynicism that the Forester is less competitive than all the competition, you overlook the benefits. I'm loyal to Subaru, because no one (in my opinion) has the unique combination of reliability, performance, ease-of-use, practical design, safety, value, and fun-to-drive factor as Subaru.
Those are marketing talking points with no backup. Name how the 2013 Forester is any better at those things than a 2013 Escape, CRV, or CX5, Kia Sportage SX Turbo, or the rest of that class.

Pre-2009, Forester XT Sport with symmetrical AWD and turbo power, when others didn't have anything close... you may have had a point. A lot has happened in 4-5 model years since then, and Forester hasn't progressed much, in terms of tech... and it lost the manual gearbox on the XT.

Now, they all have Turbo 4 or V6 power, in excess of the current XT, or the EU FA20DIT 2013 Forester lead-in, with 240hp.

Quote:
I didn't buy the prev gen Forester only because I didn't like the cheap-ish interior, ancient 4EAT, and poor fuel economy. Yet, they still increased sales likely due to the others benefits I mentioned above. The new Forester appears to address all of those without compromising all of the other pros.
They increased sales, year over year for Subaru. That doesn't prove that they gained marketshare in that segment, with new products coming from many other companies, that have eclipsed Forester in the last couple of model years.

The only reason I am considering SH Forester, is because it offers a manual gearbox, but I am NOT HAPPY that it is only on the base and premium 2.5X, with barely more than HALF the horsepower of my current AP-tuned Legacy GT Limited.

That is a HUGE step down in power, and amenities, just to keep a stick shift and symmetrical AWD, and avoid the 4EAT/active AWD.

It isn't as if Outback XT or Legacy GT still exist, either. A better Forester would not be stepping on non-existent toes.

Quote:
So in my opinion, Subaru has a VERY competitive product in the 2014 Forester and they are going to quickly sell every copy they make, just like the Impreza, Crosstrek, BRZ, and Outback have been doing!
You say that... but you still haven't demonstrably answered how the 2013, or extrapolated likely 2014 Forester is so very competitive.

Just because Subaru will sell out their limited production capacity, doesn't mean they are beating their competition in the segment, and giving them a reason to buy forester ABOVE those other vehicles, rather than just being a marketplace also-ran.

Being just another on-par choice, if it can manage to be on-par, doesn't mean it won't lose popularity when some other product DOES set itself above the competition. Subaru could set itself up, it just isn't.

Real substance is what kept Subaru buyers buying Subaru in the past. Now, I cannot point to anything aside from that small corner of manual gearbox availability that sets 2009-2013 Forester out from a Jeep Patriot (no AWD with a manual), or a pre-13 Escape/Mariner/Tribute that my wife really likes (no manual at all, but optional V6 power)

Mazda CX5 is slated to be a better performer, and better looking than 2014 Forester.
Escape and other cars in the segment are marketing ease of use with optional features like keyless entry, possibly keyless start, and foot-triggered lift-gate, and other assistants... which Forester has NONE of.
RAV4 V6 and Sportage SX Turbo both offer far more power than Forester XT, including the FA20DIT in europe this year.
Many in the segment offer better looking interiors.
Nissans also use CVTs, and everybody offers automatics, if Forester goes all-CVT, and eliminates the manual gearbox option any further.

Considering the lack of suspension quality in my 2005 Legacy, and it's lineage into the more modern Subaru Impreza/Forester line with SH and GR, I am not so enamored with Subaru's durability. it is clunking and rough less than a year after I just replaced all the dampers a second time, and several of the damaged rubber bushings in the front control arms... on a 90K mile car, and it still rides rough. Not sporty... just rough, and loudly clattering.

I want to see the proof in the pudding, not just hold-over talking points from years past, when Subaru actually offered some compelling things.

I WANT to like Forester more than any of it's competition. It just has too many excuses for why it isn't more compelling point for point with other vehicles in the segment.

I bought a BL Legacy GT, because it DID stand head and shoulders above any other mainstream mid-size sedan in it's segment, save perhaps Mazdaspeed 6. That didn't make Legacy 2.5i/3.0R less appealing. That and Outback XT Limited didn't make Outback 2.5i/3.0R less of a Subaru-best-seller. Yet they are both GONE, Outback is ugly, Legacy is dowdy, and are no longer on ANY enthusiast's radar, and have no reason to be.

03-08 Forester DID used to stand out above it's then-more-sparse mid-size/compact CUV segment, and I think SH is even more handsome, and a bit more practically sized, but it's not a stand-out anymore. Forester has technologically stood still, while every other product in that segment has come on strong, because the segment is popular, and has a CAFE fleet average advantage over passenger cars that aren't "light truck" classified. Now, with 2014... it isn't even handsome anymore, either.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 10-17-2012 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:24 PM   #273
eps105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post

....

Those are marketing talking points with no backup. Name how the 2013 Forester is any better at those things than a 2013 Escape, CRV, or CX5, Kia Sportage SX Turbo, or the rest of that class.

....

You say that... but you still haven't demonstrably answered how the 2013, or extrapolated likely 2014 Forester is so very competitive.

Just because Subaru will sell out their limited production capacity, doesn't mean they are beating their competition in the segment, and giving them a reason to buy forester ABOVE those other vehicles, rather than just being a marketplace also-ran

....
Wow! You certainly went on quite a rant for someone that claims not to be cynical or emotional. LOL!

You took my opinions and threw them back at me as "marketing talking points", then asked me to explain what makes the Forester competitive. So clearly, you missed my point.... I said what makes the Forester competitive is the "unique combination of reliability, performance, ease-of-use, practical design, safety, value, and fun-to-drive factor".

This is my opinion, not marketing talk. I can't back up my perceptions; they're my perceptions.

In it also my opinion that the addition of the CVT, better interior, updated styling, and improved mileage will make the 2014 competitive. So I did "extrapolate" how the 2014 will be competitive... with my opinion/perception.

Hypocritically, you criticize me that I haven't "demonstrably answered" things that I am stating only as opinion -- not facts -- but then go on a rant full of your opinions about looks and power and content and act as if your opinion is fact.

Anyway, to be honest, I read these forums to find interesting news and facts about new Subarus, not to get into opinionated debates with power-hungry fanboys. (No offense.) So you can reply (I'm sure you will), but I'll back down from responding. There's no value-added to this.

Have fun finding your happy place. Cheers.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:35 PM   #274
Brahmzy
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Hip, all that to say - I've driven all of those other SUVs, extensively, in search for a new wife-mobile. I still came back to the Forester. They have the look, the gadgets, but drive like a horse's ass. Numb, vague, electronic steering, blind spots galore, lack of usable packing space etc. Not to mention, for me, a turbo is a requirement, so that further limits the options with engine/drivetrain combos.

And, in the end, compare this and that all day long, there's the simple fact that people might just love the Subaru - have you ever thought of that? I've had 7 and I still go back to them (not for perfomance cars anymore as they're 8 years long in the tooth there) but for other niche vehicles, absolutely. And one day, possibly very soon, they'll get back near the top of their class on the performance-car side again.
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Old 10-17-2012, 05:36 PM   #275
JustyWRC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eps105 View Post
If the leaked brochure photos posted a couple weeks ago here are to be trusted (which I do), they clearly show the XT has the airdams and the non-turbo does not.

Not sure why there is so much debate and disbelief here what they are.

ONE CAVEAT: In the past, it has been common to see slightly different bumpers for the North American market in order to meet U.S. crash standards. This means the U.S. Forester could have slightly different bumper design and/or overall length, which we have yet to see/confirm. For example, I know this is the case for the 2010+ Outback.
A higher up Subaru rep told us that the next XT would have look differences similar to the old Sports.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
Breaking sales records proves otherwise Hip. Subaru is obviously doing something right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I want to see the proof in the pudding, not just hold-over talking points from years past, when Subaru actually offered some compelling things.
The proof in the pudding is 4 straight years of sales increase. The ONLY manufacturer to do it; AND, 25% YTD over last years record pace. Next year will surely pass this year then we get another new Outback/Legacy.

You compare to Land Rover. Really? You compare to a Cherokee SRT-8. Really? You want to spend that much on a Subaru? I am sure MOST of Subaru's customers don't.

Companies usually discontinue something because it doesn't sell. Name me something that was killed just because. It sucks that some of these things are discontinued because there are some of us that still want those things. Just not enough of us to keep them.

I agree with some things you say and disagree with some things you say; but I think it's funny when you say Subaru is "failing" when they haven't ever been better!

As for getting rid of the cars like the Outback XT and Legacy GT. I have a feeling we'll get something back. They just had to develop the DIT. I am also sure they would have loved to have kept the Legacy GT......if it would have sold better. It didn't, so they relegated it to sold order status until the decision was given to kill it.

Subaru did it "your" way for a long time and wasn't as profitable. They saw the light and are growing. Maybe they will grow to the point they can make things you'll like again.
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