Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 22, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-09-2013, 09:31 AM   #2826
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emac08 View Post
All new CVT use the chain vs a belt.
CVTs do not use timing belts or timing chains, though.

The FA & FB engines (Subaru's current generation of 4 cylinder engines) use timing chains, paultg. The FB25 in the non-XT Foresters is the same one that's been in the Forester since 2011.

The XT is the only USDM Subaru with Subaru's new direct injection tech.. the 2.5L engines are still using port injection.


If you've got spec questions about Subarus, always check cars101.com first. It's a site run by Joe Spitz, a very passionate Subaru aficionado who works at a dealership in WA. His site is an awesome archive of Subaru model knowledge.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by Calamity Jesus; 04-09-2013 at 09:37 AM.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:58 AM   #2827
Juege
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 37088
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Switzerland
Vehicle:
2004 Outback 2.5 i m
silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
CVTs do not use timing belts or timing chains, though.


The XT is the only USDM Subaru with Subaru's new direct injection tech..

.
Not to forget: The BRZ NA-Engine with port and direct injection
Juege is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:20 AM   #2828
Angelus911
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 89967
Join Date: Jun 2005
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: MA
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza Sport
DGM

Default

But the BRZ uses Toyota's DI, whereas the Forester uses Subaru's own DI, correct?
Angelus911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:39 AM   #2829
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paultg View Post
Cool about the timing chain. I did the 100k timing belt/water pump and a few other items on my '09 OBS back in November 2012 to the tune of $1000. That car has had regular oil every 7500 miles as well with no issues. I love my oil change specials for $19 at autozone, but o well.

Does anyone know if these new DI motors still use the same oil filter as the older cars? Right now my 91 Miata, 09 Subaru, and 04 Nissan all use a P6607 filter which is kind of nice.

Paul G.
The timing chain is one reason I am thinking of a 2011+ Forester 2.5X 5-speed, or an 08-10 5-passenger Tribeca with an EZ36. (If I have to get an automatic, I'd want the VDC AWD, and H6 smooth horsepower, and not a CVT)

05 Legacy GT just passed 100K miles earlier this year, and I priced the timing belt change about two weeks ago at a local independent, at 1203$, with only ~230$ of that being labor.

I am debating on whether it would be worth-while to check with the nearest Subaru dealer (40+ miles away) to see if they would be competitive on price, but I have a feeling that "stealership" might be an earned nickname, even though the techs there probably have more experience changing a boxer's timing belt.

I, too am glad that my 05 Legacy and 99 Miata use the same oil filter, although I do try to get the 10mm longer version for the Legacy. I have fitted the longer version to the Miata, but the vacuum bracket and intake manifold basically make it TORTURE to change that filter, and with the confined space, I usually stick to the stock, shorter length filter on the Miata.

Purolator pure-one pl14612, pl14610 long fitment (Honda Odyssey V6 standard fitment, same base, just longer casing and filter element.) other filter brands have other stock numbers, but the same cross reference works.

Interestingly enough... the EG33 is similar to the EJ-series... but uses a different oil filter entirely. Wouldn't have figured... but it does.

I have fumoto quarter turn locking petcock valves on the oil pans of my Legacy and Miata, which makes oil changes quicker, and I have not noticed a drop of oil leak from either one. I have the valve lever clocked above the spout and out of the way of any road debris.

A fumoto valve, a top mounted oil filter, and enough ride height not to have to put it on jack stands to reach underneath... I can only imagine how easy an oil change is on a FB25 Forester... I usually do them in about 45-60 minutes, to jack up the front end, and I really don't rush. I clean up under the hood, and straighten up the garage, and stuff like that, while the oil drains.

Speaking of which... I have to stop by the auto parts store and pick up Legacy's oil change this week. Probably timing belt service before the end of the month, and it likely needs brake service, and some suspension bushings are clanking *again*... my wallet and my car are not going to be friends.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:59 AM   #2830
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelus911 View Post
But the BRZ uses Toyota's DI, whereas the Forester uses Subaru's own DI, correct?
Bingo.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 02:41 PM   #2831
sr20dehauler
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 98950
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
RIP - Subaru FXTi
SOLD - B13 SE-R

Default

You can get a Gates timing belt kit with the water pump for $300 or $340 with a kevlar belt. And labor shouldn't cost more then $400-$500. That's what I paid for my 05XT back in 2011.
sr20dehauler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 02:52 PM   #2832
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr20dehauler View Post
You can get a Gates timing belt kit with the water pump for $300 or $340 with a kevlar belt. And labor shouldn't cost more then $400-$500. That's what I paid for my 05XT back in 2011.
Very few people in News & Rumors do their own work... they're usually shopping for new cars so they don't have to.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 02:57 PM   #2833
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr20dehauler View Post
You can get a Gates timing belt kit with the water pump for $300 or $340 with a kevlar belt. And labor shouldn't cost more then $400-$500. That's what I paid for my 05XT back in 2011.
Prices have gone up since 2011, as the dollar is worth less. The water pumps he was quoting were more than 340$. The belt and pulleys were not the major expenses on the list.

BTW, not many shops are willing to wrench if the customer deprives them of their parts markup. I was extremely rudely treated when I asked a muffler/suspension shop about simply installing some replacement Spec.B Bilsteins on my Legacy, which already had bilsteins already... a simple strut replacement... but I bought them online.

The guy probably didn't even have a ready source for Spec.B Bilsteins, but the mere mention of outside parts was enough for him to treat me so rudely that you couldn't pay me to darken his doorstep EVER again.


Back to the timing belt service, the big kicker was the hydraulic tensioner, with the timing belt change. There is a chance it isn't leaking... but will it stay that way?

If the tensioner goes out in the near future, and the belt skips teeth, the engine is toast. Even if it just starts leaking, it is a whole timing belt service again... which is kind of the point of doing the water pump at the same time, also.

The water pump and the tensioner are the big ticket items, in addition to the belt kit, and I am sure the shop is getting a percentage of that as a markup.

I am not sure I want to piss off the guy I want to work on my engine, by cheaping out on his end. If he does crap work in return for me being cheap, I'll just be back in for a new engine when the belt skips or breaks, and the valves contact the pistons.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 03:03 PM   #2834
rob1n1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 276425
Join Date: Mar 2011
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

This is going pretty OT, but I don't think you're going to the right shops... Every shop that caters to the enthusiast crowd that I've been to up here has no problems with customers that bring their own parts. Just the understanding that they can't help with warranty issues other than the labor itself.
rob1n1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 03:08 PM   #2835
sr20dehauler
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 98950
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
RIP - Subaru FXTi
SOLD - B13 SE-R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Very few people in News & Rumors do their own work... they're usually shopping for new cars so they don't have to.
I'm helpful... the word "kit" in my post has a hyperlink to the Legacy GT Gates kit for the mentioned prices. I went to a tuning shop (AWDTuning) that offers services even for parts that you bring in.
sr20dehauler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 03:34 PM   #2836
HipToBeSquare
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 119958
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: (IA) flyover cornfield country
Vehicle:
1992 SVX LS-L

Default

Look at my header. I don't live near any enthusiast shops.

I do some of my own work, but I don't have specialist tools, so a spring compressor to change struts, (I ended up installing the struts myself, after having the springs and hats changed by a pro with the right equipment.)

I know in theory how a timing belt change should go, but I don't work on cars for a living, so I am not that experienced. I simply don't have the confidence to get it just right, even if there is a chance I would do it right.

A timing belt change, sealing a water pump correctly, and a hydraulic tensioner that requires a hydraulic press that I don't have...

That rises to the level of peace of mind in trusting a professional.

I repair laptop computers. I see what people who "think" they know about computers can do with good intentions, but not enough experience, and without the right tools, and it usually causes more headaches and down time for them, and for me, than if they had just brought it to me in the first place.

I think a timing belt on a car I need to rely on daily, is something that I can justify taking to a professional, rather than taking the chance at screwing it up in my garage, with my limited number of hand-tools, and potentially RUINING the engine entirely if the timing isn't right, and being down a LOT longer, and having to borrow money to replace an engine.

Maybe some of the rest of you are super-wrench people. I wish I were more experienced and had more tools... but not everybody's comfort level is that deep.

Maybe someday, if I ever have a hobby car that I don't rely on to get to my actual job, I can take the time to learn the work, and triple check it for errors, but not on my daily driver that I don't have the money to afford to destroy with a mistake.
HipToBeSquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 04:21 PM   #2837
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sr20dehauler View Post
I'm helpful... the word "kit" in my post has a hyperlink to the Legacy GT Gates kit for the mentioned prices. I went to a tuning shop (AWDTuning) that offers services even for parts that you bring in.
Sorry.. I didn't mean to imply that you weren't helpful.

We've get a lot of folks here (particularly in threads about new models) who do everything at the dealer.. they do their research for new Subaru models here, buy the car, keep it stock and then take it to the dealer for everything until they're ready to trade it in. They aren't interested in saving money, usually... they just want convenience and to not get screwed over in the salesman's cubicle.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 06:30 PM   #2838
sr20dehauler
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 98950
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
RIP - Subaru FXTi
SOLD - B13 SE-R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Sorry.. I didn't mean to imply that you weren't helpful.
No worries. My comment was meant for Hip. I just didn't want to quote his novel.
sr20dehauler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 02:19 AM   #2839
rob1n1
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 276425
Join Date: Mar 2011
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Look at my header. I don't live near any enthusiast shops.
Well, now, whose fault is that?

Either way, $1200 is not bad for regular maintenance that only happens every 100k miles (or 10 years I believe). Certainly cheaper than a new car or a new engine.
rob1n1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 06:12 AM   #2840
paultg
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 437
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Londonderry, NH
Vehicle:
'91 Miata MX5 (Red)
'09 Impreza OBS (Blk/Gry)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob1n1 View Post
Either way, $1200 is not bad for regular maintenance that only happens every 100k miles (or 10 years I believe). Certainly cheaper than a new car or a new engine.
Agree on this. My '09 OBS service has cost me:
15 Oil/Filter changes: $375
2 or 3 cabin filters: $40
2 or 3 Air filters: $40
Timing belt/water, coolant change, plugs: at $1000
1 set of tires: $325
Winter snows/rims: $800

Can't really complain about that. Haven't done brakes yet. Car has 112k and runs great.

But I'm happy the new vehicles have a chain, even though the oil change costs will double.

Back on topic:
Anyone have recent update on their purchase cost for a 2014 Forester? It seems that invoice is the new MSRP, so I'm wondering if anyone has paid below invoice and by how much?

Thanks - Paul G.
paultg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 07:24 AM   #2841
banyan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 181013
Join Date: May 2008
Location: いいいいいい
Vehicle:


Default

^^^ Well, it depends on the location. In Chicago area, they are already selling for 500-1000 below invoice (depending on the trim level).
banyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 08:41 AM   #2842
paultg
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 437
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Londonderry, NH
Vehicle:
'91 Miata MX5 (Red)
'09 Impreza OBS (Blk/Gry)

Default

I'm looking for a 2.5i Touring with the eyesight/Hid/keyless & rear bumper cover.
Invoice in New England is $31332.
By just sending a single email to local dealers I'm seeing quotes in the mid $30k including dealer doc fee. I haven't bought a car in a while so was kind of surprised; and it made me think that I should push further for lower price. - Paul G.
paultg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 10:25 AM   #2843
Somerset Subaru
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 186498
Join Date: Aug 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Somerset, MASS (508) 676-2378
Default

If you would like I can have one of our salesmen contact you Paul. I will make sure you get a great deal!

-Adam
Somerset Subaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 12:02 PM   #2844
53x12
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206332
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In a tent
Default

53x12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 12:11 PM   #2845
Calamity Jesus
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 44501
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: in a minefield of caddishness.
Vehicle:
1984 "Skeletor from
"He-Man"

Default

Check out how much they have the camera tilted at 1:25 to make it appear like the slope is steeper than it really is.
Calamity Jesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 12:43 PM   #2846
lark6
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2715
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: where GW crossed the Delaware
Vehicle:
70 911T

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Check out how much they have the camera tilted at 1:25 to make it appear like the slope is steeper than it really is.
lark6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 04:17 PM   #2847
s_i_m_p_l_e
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 28067
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Huntsville AL
Vehicle:
2005 STi (RIP)
Black

Thumbs up Bought a 2014 XT!

Should arrive April 18, dealer (Gerald Subaru, Naperville IL) has been getting them a day or two early. Got 16 quotes from Denver to New York, they were by far the best deal on an XT premium. My local Subie dealership was willing to match it but I didnt want to wait 4 months so.... I Put money down on the first of April with the following deal:
2014 Subaru Forester 2.0XT Premium
Automatic Transmission ( I REALLY wanted a manual.. but oh well)
Option 01 (Base)
Factory Installed Options
KGA (KGA) AUTO-DIM MIRROR COMPASS
PGE (PGE) REAR BUMPER COVER
QGC (QGC) BODY SIDE MOLDING KIT - ICE SILVER METALLIC
$29,369 MSRP
$27,412 INVOICE
$26,852 GERALD SUBARU DISCOUNTED PRICE!!

They also quoted me on 3 NA foresters that were all about $500 under invoice.

Have not driven the XT, but the NA was acceptable. The few reviews I have read from Australia, Canada and TFLCAR.com seem to be impressed with the XT. I have had 2 WRX's (2002, 2005) and LUV boxer turbos so we will see how it goes.
s_i_m_p_l_e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 08:28 PM   #2848
A W
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 265433
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by s_i_m_p_l_e View Post
Should arrive April 18, dealer (Gerald Subaru, Naperville IL) has been getting them a day or two early. Got 16 quotes from Denver to New York, they were by far the best deal on an XT premium. My local Subie dealership was willing to match it but I didnt want to wait 4 months so.... I Put money down on the first of April with the following deal:
2014 Subaru Forester 2.0XT Premium
Automatic Transmission ( I REALLY wanted a manual.. but oh well)
Option 01 (Base)
Factory Installed Options
KGA (KGA) AUTO-DIM MIRROR COMPASS
PGE (PGE) REAR BUMPER COVER
QGC (QGC) BODY SIDE MOLDING KIT - ICE SILVER METALLIC
$29,369 MSRP
$27,412 INVOICE
$26,852 GERALD SUBARU DISCOUNTED PRICE!!

They also quoted me on 3 NA foresters that were all about $500 under invoice.

Have not driven the XT, but the NA was acceptable. The few reviews I have read from Australia, Canada and TFLCAR.com seem to be impressed with the XT. I have had 2 WRX's (2002, 2005) and LUV boxer turbos so we will see how it goes.
You put money down or you put a deposit to hold the 2.0 XT Premium? ;o Around here in Colorado some dealers tell us it's refundable and some say it isn't. At least, the $1k holding deposit on orders is what I've been told by the salesmen/women from Colorado dealerships. Vehicles already on lots that's another story.

I assume you test drove the manual NA Foresters which is why you're saying the NA Foresters were "acceptable"?
A W is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 08:54 PM   #2849
g_man80
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 93466
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: SLC, UT
Vehicle:
'14 FXT

Default

simple, you're really going to like the way the XT drives. We're hoping to have our XT premium tomorrow or early next week. We drove an XT touring last Saturday and were really impressed. I don't think we're going to miss our '08 XT at all

I'm excited to see what the seats are like in the XT premium.

Last edited by g_man80; 04-11-2013 at 09:02 PM.
g_man80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2013, 09:42 PM   #2850
paultg
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 437
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Londonderry, NH
Vehicle:
'91 Miata MX5 (Red)
'09 Impreza OBS (Blk/Gry)

Default

I spent some time emailing all my local dealers this week. Put a deposit and got a VIN # on a Dark Gray Touring with Eye Site/Hids/Keyless. Going to take a few weeks to arrive but very happy.

Drove a Touring Turbo tonight to try out the option package. I wish I could get the black leather like the turbos come with, but the light grey is nice too.

Paul G.
paultg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.