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Old 04-18-2013, 10:45 AM   #2951
Brahmzy
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VERY departed....
It's departed alright.
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:53 PM   #2952
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finished the chrome delete on the fog bezels

cf vinyl wrapped the grill and fog bezels







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Old 04-18-2013, 06:12 PM   #2953
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^That looks really good.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:18 PM   #2954
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A little vinyl does wonders =)
chrome is meh !
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:27 PM   #2955
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Looks great!
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:39 PM   #2956
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My wife and I are planning on buying a new CUV or wagon, so we drove an XT Touring/Eyesight (approximately $37K sticker) yesterday. I was all set to love the XT, but overall... I'm a little conflicted.

On the plus side, the transmission is a huge improvement over the old four-speed, there's plenty of giddy-up, the sightlines are terrific, rear seat space is cavernous, and the dashboard is attractive. I also thought the exterior looked great in Satin White Pearl.

But we were both disappointed by a few factors. The handling is fine but far from fun, the radio/nav interface is very frustrating, the car -- with 18 miles on the odometer -- already had numerous scuff marks on the hard plastic lower door panels, the plastic shift paddles feel flimsy, the front seats are practically flat, and most important, we both found the interior quite noisy. I was really surprised by the tire roar and seeming lack of insulation because several reviews have commented that the new Forester is quieter than the outgoing model. This may be the case, but it still seemed quite loud (and I drive a 2003 WRX).

It's tough to explain exactly why, but we left the dealership thinking that the FXT was a nice vehicle, but not worth the sticker price. Of course, we aren't interested in Eyesight and wouldn't pay MSRP, but even for thousands less, it felt a little chintzy. I think the biggest issue was that a lot of frequently-used parts of the car, including the radio, navigation system, seats, and shift paddles don't seem very robust or pleasant to use. Plus, I was thinking the FXT would be just a bit more fun to drive.

That said, there was a lot to like and we may still buy an FXT. But it wasn't the slam-dunk I was expecting.

Last edited by capt.sensible; 04-18-2013 at 06:43 PM. Reason: Forgot something
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:12 PM   #2957
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Possible solution: 2.5i Premium 6-speed + aftermarket leather + aftermarket stereo/navi install? If you bought at invoice you could do all that for close to $25k, at which price point the vehicle is much more attractive.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:27 AM   #2958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capt.sensible View Post
My wife and I are planning on buying a new CUV or wagon, so we drove an XT Touring/Eyesight (approximately $37K sticker) yesterday. I was all set to love the XT, but overall... I'm a little conflicted.

On the plus side, the transmission is a huge improvement over the old four-speed, there's plenty of giddy-up, the sightlines are terrific, rear seat space is cavernous, and the dashboard is attractive. I also thought the exterior looked great in Satin White Pearl.

But we were both disappointed by a few factors. The handling is fine but far from fun, the radio/nav interface is very frustrating, the car -- with 18 miles on the odometer -- already had numerous scuff marks on the hard plastic lower door panels, the plastic shift paddles feel flimsy, the front seats are practically flat, and most important, we both found the interior quite noisy. I was really surprised by the tire roar and seeming lack of insulation because several reviews have commented that the new Forester is quieter than the outgoing model. This may be the case, but it still seemed quite loud (and I drive a 2003 WRX).

It's tough to explain exactly why, but we left the dealership thinking that the FXT was a nice vehicle, but not worth the sticker price. Of course, we aren't interested in Eyesight and wouldn't pay MSRP, but even for thousands less, it felt a little chintzy. I think the biggest issue was that a lot of frequently-used parts of the car, including the radio, navigation system, seats, and shift paddles don't seem very robust or pleasant to use. Plus, I was thinking the FXT would be just a bit more fun to drive.

That said, there was a lot to like and we may still buy an FXT. But it wasn't the slam-dunk I was expecting.
This is what I'm worried about, though I haven't test-driven the new FXT yet.

I did, however, have an Escape 2.0T for a few weeks while my car was in the shop, and the downgrade in power and handling really wasn't that bad, since it mostly handled like a Focus on stilts. It was a good compromise, but, IMO, didn't offer what I was looking for in a CUV.

I think I'd either want a car that drives like a car or an SUV/CUV that handles like a CUV (I don't mean that in a bad way.) In other words, an STI version of the Forester would be awesome and be worth the compromise inherent to owning a larger, more ungainly platform. Owning a quasi-sporty CUV; however, might seem more like a tease, and end up disappointing in many regards (cost, handling, fuel economy, etc.)

To elaborate, I once owned a Civic SI. It was fun on the back roads, but overall it sucked big time. It was torqueless, had no room inside and was very harsh on anything but the most pristine roads. Sure I saved some money at the time over an STI, but I honestly enjoy driving my wife's Civic LX more, because it is what it is, and because of that I drive it for economy, not for thrills.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:17 AM   #2959
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..though I haven't test-driven the new FXT yet.
You need to. Just drive one.

And to all throwing the $37K number out there. I had that number stuck in my head too. All of a sudden, after deciding against the Eyesite pkg, but still going with an XT Touring, I'm paying under $31K. That's more like it. You're absolutely right the car's not worth $37K - it's not. Do I wish I was paying $28K like you could for a similarly equipped '13? Yeah, but all else being equal, I see an easy $3K of improvement over the '13.
Give up Eyesite, go to a dealer that will go $1K under invoice or better, and you'll feel a LOT better. Subaru really did a number on us in how they optioned the vehicle.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:40 AM   #2960
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I am very interested in the new '14 FXT. As you can see, I have a turbocharged CUV right now, the '11 Kia Sportage SX. The interior is a major major upgrade over what I had in the '09 FXT Limited (fully optioned with even a dozen accessories too). The Sportage SX also has really amazing acceleration, along with very still suspension setup too.

The bad points with the Sportage SX are:

- The handling is a little sloppy, as it loves to understeer.
- Visibility is scary bad. - The A-pillars are so huge that cars and corners disappear on curvy roads, and the rear pillar is so large that there are times that they will obscure an entire 18-wheeler tractor-trailor.
- AWD system along with the traction control system can get you completely stuck in even just two inches of snow, and this has happened to me on a few occasions when I have had to make emergency bathroom pit-stops in the mountains.


What I hated the most with the '09 Forester XT was the sloppy handling feel. While it actually handled really good, the bodyroll made it feel like being out in a rowboat out in a hurricane.
Other things I hated were the consistent 19 mpg fuel economy in all conditions, the poverty-looking trim interior on the highest trimmed FXT, the horrible 4 speed automatic, the rattles, the turbo lag (2800 rpm before you get any torque vs the Kia's 1850 rpm 269 lb ft of torque), and the god-awful terrible audio system in the Forester that sounded like an alarm clock radio with a small amount of bass from under the seat.

The Forester XT was absolutely amazing at two things:
1) It could get you through any amount of snow/ice, even on the steepest of steepest icy/snowy grades
2) The visibility was so good, it was like driving in a greenhouse.


What interests me about the Forester is the performance improvements, the interior upgrades, the audio upgrades, paddle shifters (down-shifting down steep grades), and fuel economy upgrades. I hope they worked on the handling/suspension as well.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:51 AM   #2961
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I was under the impression that Hyundai's AWD system was a good system until I keep hearing driver's experiences like yours where the AWD system is just awkward and unresponsive.

From what I hear the new FXT suspension is better but there is still some body roll (kinda inherent to CUV's anyway).
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:07 PM   #2962
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
I was under the impression that Hyundai's AWD system was a good system until I keep hearing driver's experiences like yours where the AWD system is just awkward and unresponsive.

From what I hear the new FXT suspension is better but there is still some body roll (kinda inherent to CUV's anyway).
It is certainly awkward. I do not trust it like the I did the Forester is bad weather. From a stop, it just fails in the snow. I put it in AWD lock with traction control off, and it still had a tendency of only spinning the front tires. With traction control on, it would slip and it would stop sending any power to the wheels.

Because of that, I kind of do not want to consider anything but a Subaru after the lease to this is up. I do like the Mazda CX-5, but I really don't want to deal with another horrible faux-AWD system again.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:57 PM   #2963
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Just thinking out loud here ...
I'm on the fence about the new forester, the low towing capacity is going to kill my purchase, most minivans can pull 3500, even my G8 can pull 2000lbs, and a 150lb tongue is like a bike rack with 3 bikes on it, I've got 2 kids, and the roof racks are stupid (IMO) on an SUV. This sucks because I really like them but it's like a giant economy car, maybe in a few years I'll let go of my WRX and get one, but after seeing the new wrx concept that's highly unlikely. Am I the only one thinking this?
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:28 PM   #2964
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Unfortunately, the low tow rating is pretty much standard across the small SUV segment. It's not so much that the vehicle chassis cannot handle higher ratings (see other markets) but more SOA pulling the liability card and add an additional reason to move up to the Outback. Much like the previous Imprezas had towing capacity while the newer models don't. Some minivans (at least older ones) were built off truck chassis and have additional cooling capacity to tow heavy loads. CLARIFICATION: All modern minivans are unibody.

Last edited by subyski; 04-19-2013 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:56 PM   #2965
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I can't recall any minivans in the modern era being body on frame vehicles… ? Which minivans in particular are you referring to?
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:07 PM   #2966
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The Aerostar is the last only one I can think of... and it was still an integrated 'unibody-on-frame' like a Jeep Cherokee and Honda Ridgeline.
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Old 04-19-2013, 03:10 PM   #2967
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I can't recall any minivans in the modern era being body on frame vehicles… ? Which minivans in particular are you referring to?
I stand corrected, most minivans are uni-body with the Safari/Astro being the last body on frame minivan.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:11 PM   #2968
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:19 PM   #2969
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Good ol' Tommi. Was hoping he'd jump it or drift it, ha.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:36 PM   #2970
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And to all throwing the $37K number out there. I had that number stuck in my head too. All of a sudden, after deciding against the Eyesite pkg, but still going with an XT Touring, I'm paying under $31K. That's more like it. You're absolutely right the car's not worth $37K - it's not. Do I wish I was paying $28K like you could for a similarly equipped '13? Yeah, but all else being equal, I see an easy $3K of improvement over the '13.
Give up Eyesite, go to a dealer that will go $1K under invoice or better, and you'll feel a LOT better. Subaru really did a number on us in how they optioned the vehicle.
Bramzhy,

You make a good point. I'm not at all interested in EyeSight -- although I AM interested in the keyless entry that's bundled with it -- and if we buy a Forester it'll be a no-options XT Touring. And I agree that the optioning structure is ridiculous. To bundle a new and expensive safety feature with something as commonplace (outside of a Subaru dealership) as keyless entry or HIDs seems pretty calculating. Bundling EyeSight with Nav I could understand, as they're both tech-y features.

And if I could get a Pearl White XT Touring for $1000 below invoice, I'd buy it tomorrow. Seriously. That's about what I've paid for past Subarus. But in my region of Southern California, the dealers I've talked to are acting as though the FXT is something precious. Did you use a buying service like USAA or Costco to get your XT Touring for $31K? I used to look forward to the haggling process, but I'm getting old and uninterested in arguing.

Oh, and Smigelski -- thanks for the suggestion. I'd like to keep this one stock, though.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:40 PM   #2971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capt.sensible View Post
Bramzhy,

You make a good point. I'm not at all interested in EyeSight -- although I AM interested in the keyless entry that's bundled with it -- and if we buy a Forester it'll be a no-options XT Touring. And I agree that the optioning structure is ridiculous. To bundle a new and expensive safety feature with something as commonplace (outside of a Subaru dealership) as keyless entry or HIDs seems pretty calculating. Bundling EyeSight with Nav I could understand, as they're both tech-y features.

And if I could get a Pearl White XT Touring for $1000 below invoice, I'd buy it tomorrow. Seriously. That's about what I've paid for past Subarus. But in my region of Southern California, the dealers I've talked to are acting as though the FXT is something precious. Did you use a buying service like USAA or Costco to get your XT Touring for $31K? I used to look forward to the haggling process, but I'm getting old and uninterested in arguing.

Oh, and Smigelski -- thanks for the suggestion. I'd like to keep this one stock, though.
Ummm, just get into the VIP program. Donate like $30 to a group like the IMBA, and hang out for 6 months or more, than then take advantage of the VIP no-haggle price of 2% under dealer invoice.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:48 PM   #2972
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Originally Posted by GodWhomIsMike View Post
Ummm, just get into the VIP program. Donate like $30 to a group like the IMBA, and hang out for 6 months or more, than then take advantage of the VIP no-haggle price of 2% under dealer invoice.
Or, just live in the same city as the biggest Subaru dealer in the nation/world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt.sensible View Post
Bramzhy,

You make a good point. I'm not at all interested in EyeSight -- although I AM interested in the keyless entry that's bundled with it -- and if we buy a Forester it'll be a no-options XT Touring. And I agree that the optioning structure is ridiculous. To bundle a new and expensive safety feature with something as commonplace (outside of a Subaru dealership) as keyless entry or HIDs seems pretty calculating. Bundling EyeSight with Nav I could understand, as they're both tech-y features.
I think a lot of the issue here starts with the fact they forced Nav into a trim level vs. an option. Nav has ALWAYS been an option up til now. The sweetspot configuration of the previous gen, IMO, was all loaded up minus nav. That meant $28K realistically with discounts. You figure almost $2K for Nav most manufacturers are wanting and Subaru goes and 'bundles' Nav into the Touring trim. Ridiculous. There's a lot of features in the Touring trim I wanted over a premium. But it doesn't stop there - the options just get stupid the higher you go.
I wanted keyless entry/start and all that too as my Bimmer has it, but BMW offered to ability to separate out each option, correctly.
At one point I did want the factory HIDs, but the fact they're reflector was a disappointment and I can and will put projectors HIDs in the car for very cheap. So, no loss.

If I'm going to pay $37K actual cost for a Subaru, it better be a full size SUV of some sort, or the baddest ass AWD turbo sports car they've ever made. At it's heart, the Forester is an Impreza platform car, yet they priced it like a Legacy platform car. Makes you wonder what the '15 Legacy and WRX and STi cars are going to price at, doesn't it? Forester still has the cheaper Impreza interior, but dang if they didn't price it close to a high-end vehicle.

Overall, I've driven and priced just about everything out there within reason and cars are just getting freaking expensive. The sheer amount of SUVs over $50K now is jaw dropping - 4Runners, Grand Cherokees, Touregs, the German stuff obviously. Almost anything loaded is at or pushing $40K now. I think once they started pushing 72mo and longer loans, **** just got stupid. Even in a down economy. I figured $31K out the door is still a halfway sane level for a Subaru, considering what this new model brings.

Last edited by Brahmzy; 04-19-2013 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:59 PM   #2973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodWhomIsMike View Post
Ummm, just get into the VIP program. Donate like $30 to a group like the IMBA, and hang out for 6 months or more, than then take advantage of the VIP no-haggle price of 2% under dealer invoice.
Yeah, I know you're right. It's just that I haven't needed VIP credentials to get below invoice pricing on a Subaru in the past, so I never bothered to sign up with a participating organization. And with a newborn (he arrived pretty early, which threw off all our car-buying plans), I'm afraid we can't wait 6 months to buy our next vehicle. I should have planned ahead. My bad.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:18 PM   #2974
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:23 PM   #2975
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Dang, no wonder that kit costs like $500. That's a lot of crap for a couple LED strips.
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