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Old 11-10-2012, 05:22 PM   #776
JustyWRC
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Originally Posted by Kameha View Post
I really hope it's a tilting headrest I see in the picture. Because of the new regulations, headrests in most of new cars push my head forward.

I also hope that the seats are going to be a little more supportive/firmer like the seats in outback or legacy.
After seeing the picture, I'll confirm that....

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Originally Posted by A W View Post
There are a lot of people who traded in their 2012 Subaru Outback for a 2013 Subaru Outback since the 2013 handles a LOT better. But in the long run I can see the MPG paying off on the 2014 Subaru Forester if you plan to keep the car a lot longer than the average person does.

I figured it was for the better engine/tranny and newer tech.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:29 PM   #777
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:31 PM   #778
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Who are these people taking these pics? Why won't they go get a closer pic of whatever that is on the mirror?
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:50 PM   #779
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
After seeing the picture, I'll confirm that....




I figured it was for the better engine/tranny and newer tech.
All I've been reading and hearing is that it handles better. I've only been talking to enthusiasts (niche segment obviously). I don't really encounter many people who buy a Subaru because they need AWD, Japanese reliability, and AWD who AREN'T enthusiasts.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:52 PM   #780
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When I compare the sizes to cars101.com, assuming the #s are mm, it seems to be smaller than the MY13?
Part of the new press release included information that most of the gains in capacity was seen in the rear passenger section. They moved the seats a bit back in order to make that happen is what I assumed at first. I won't know until I actually test drive a 2014 with my 2012 sitting side by side. How people fit in seats let alone in the car or driver's seat depends on the individual. I want to see how it feels in the rear passenger area before I can say losing a little bit of cargo room was a good trade off.

Cars101.com did those measurements by hand so you'll have to see for yourself if it's actually smaller in the 2014.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:54 PM   #781
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Who are these people taking these pics? Why won't they go get a closer pic of whatever that is on the mirror?
Don't the images say Japanese salesmen/women or actual Subaru customers? Some of the images look like they're off a dealer lot and some of them look like they were taken at a dealership during a test drive.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:29 PM   #782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Who are these people taking these pics? Why won't they go get a closer pic of whatever that is on the mirror?
close up pics of the mirrors are here:

http://subarublog.wordpress.com/2012...forester-2013/
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:10 PM   #783
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love it, would buy one, but no stick shift means I'll probably end up with an the redesigned WRX when it comes out - (assuming stick is still not an option)
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:37 PM   #784
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I don't understand what everyone's obsession is with manual. Manual is cheap old technology. It's basic. There's not much benefit if any over subarus cvt. you have to understand that the new cvt is designed as such that when you hit the accelerator you don't have to change gears it's at constant peak for torque. A stick shift would never compare.
People need to evolve and accept the fact that there is better technology other than manual. If it was soo great like people say(5 out of a million) then they would be selling everywhere and manufacturers would still be building them.
Next thing you know people will demand manual roll down windows. Lol
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:38 PM   #785
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I personally drive both stick and automatic. And I order auto. I don't need to bother shifting gears, always have one hand free and I can enjoy the ride.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:41 PM   #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palnick
I don't understand what everyone's obsession is with manual. Manual is cheap old technology. It's basic. There's not much benefit if any over subarus cvt. you have to understand that the new cvt is designed as such that when you hit the accelerator you don't have to change gears it's at constant peak for torque. A stick shift would never compare.
People need to evolve and accept the fact that there is better technology other than manual. If it was soo great like people say(5 out of a million) then they would be selling everywhere and manufacturers would still be building them.
Next thing you know people will demand manual roll down windows. Lol
Seriously? You must be an engineer.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:43 PM   #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palnick
I personally drive both stick and automatic. And I order auto. I don't need to bother shifting gears, always have one hand free and I can enjoy the ride.
Some people like to do more with their cars than just cruise.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:54 PM   #788
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Originally Posted by pittkid333 View Post
love it, would buy one, but no stick shift means I'll probably end up with an the redesigned WRX when it comes out - (assuming stick is still not an option)
There is a stick shift for the 2014 Subaru Forester. You just can't get it in the turbocharged variant which is fine by me.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:56 PM   #789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palnick View Post
I don't understand what everyone's obsession is with manual. Manual is cheap old technology. It's basic. There's not much benefit if any over subarus cvt. you have to understand that the new cvt is designed as such that when you hit the accelerator you don't have to change gears it's at constant peak for torque. A stick shift would never compare.
People need to evolve and accept the fact that there is better technology other than manual. If it was soo great like people say(5 out of a million) then they would be selling everywhere and manufacturers would still be building them.
Next thing you know people will demand manual roll down windows. Lol
The thing is...in the time it takes to shift gears in a manual, the CVT car get to the optimum gear.....except for one thing...
THE DRIVER CAN ANTICIPATE!!
By viewing the road ahead, downshifting for a corner or getting ready to accelerate on a uphill on-ramp, a manual driver can get into gear ahead of time. And by being in a gear, there is less variability in the acceleration (part throttle cornering in a CVT can be MADDENING)

All that said, for the large part of the historic Subaru buyer (a large part of Vermont for instance) the CVT will be just fine. And for those with a daily grind stop and go commute, it will be fine as well.

I enjoy driving a manual transmission car. It engages the driver, allows more control, and is more rewarding to drive. And by requiring the driver to anticipate up or downshifts, it causes one to pay even closer attention to the surrounding conditions.

In my opinion, the majority of 2.5 Forester buyers are not going to hustle the car much. Pairing the manual with the 2.0T would better satisfy the enthusiast looking for a quick but useful vehicle.

I also think it's a bit of fear that the two 2.0T applications so far for this motor in the JDM Legacy and this Forester might mean that Subaru could think the WRX would be fine with the CVT....which would mean I would never own one myself.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:59 PM   #790
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Originally Posted by Derbagger View Post
The thing is...in the time it takes to shift gears in a manual, the CVT car get to the optimum gear.....except for one thing...
THE DRIVER CAN ANTICIPATE!!
By viewing the road ahead, downshifting for a corner or getting ready to accelerate on a uphill on-ramp, a manual driver can get into gear ahead of time. And by being in a gear, there is less variability in the acceleration (part throttle cornering in a CVT can be MADDENING)

All that said, for the large part of the historic Subaru buyer (a large part of Vermont for instance) the CVT will be just fine. And for those with a daily grind stop and go commute, it will be fine as well.

I enjoy driving a manual transmission car. It engages the driver, allows more control, and is more rewarding to drive. And by requiring the driver to anticipate up or downshifts, it causes one to pay even closer attention to the surrounding conditions.

In my opinion, the majority of 2.5 Forester buyers are not going to hustle the car much. Pairing the manual with the 2.0T would better satisfy the enthusiast looking for a quick but useful vehicle.

I also think it's a bit of fear that the two 2.0T applications so far for this motor in the JDM Legacy and this Forester might mean that Subaru could think the WRX would be fine with the CVT....which would mean I would never own one myself.

Agreed. Plus the MT provides you with continuous AWD rather than the active AWD of CVT.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:10 PM   #791
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Originally Posted by Derbagger View Post
The thing is...in the time it takes to shift gears in a manual, the CVT car get to the optimum gear.....except for one thing...
THE DRIVER CAN ANTICIPATE!!
By viewing the road ahead, downshifting for a corner or getting ready to accelerate on a uphill on-ramp, a manual driver can get into gear ahead of time. And by being in a gear, there is less variability in the acceleration (part throttle cornering in a CVT can be MADDENING)

All that said, for the large part of the historic Subaru buyer (a large part of Vermont for instance) the CVT will be just fine. And for those with a daily grind stop and go commute, it will be fine as well.

I enjoy driving a manual transmission car. It engages the driver, allows more control, and is more rewarding to drive. And by requiring the driver to anticipate up or downshifts, it causes one to pay even closer attention to the surrounding conditions.

In my opinion, the majority of 2.5 Forester buyers are not going to hustle the car much. Pairing the manual with the 2.0T would better satisfy the enthusiast looking for a quick but useful vehicle.

I also think it's a bit of fear that the two 2.0T applications so far for this motor in the JDM Legacy and this Forester might mean that Subaru could think the WRX would be fine with the CVT....which would mean I would never own one myself.
A CVT can have a manual override, and with many more ratios to chose from too.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:21 PM   #792
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I don't think Subaru has a CVT that can handle the torque of the 2.0T do they? CVTs sound good on paper, but it seems like every report I hear from an enthusiast has a reason to hate them.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:29 PM   #793
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I don't think Subaru has a CVT that can handle the torque of the 2.0T do they?

They do now.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:48 PM   #794
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Originally Posted by kukabuka
I don't think Subaru has a CVT that can handle the torque of the 2.0T do they? CVTs sound good on paper, but it seems like every report I hear from an enthusiast has a reason to hate them.
The JDM Legacy has a CVT matched to a 2.0T producing 296 hp / 295 lb-ft.

The 2014 Forester XT will have a CVT matched to a 2.0T producing 250 hp/ 258 lb-ft.

The CVT's have a manual override via paddle shifters with simulated gears. What I like about the CVT, at least in the XV, is the ability to use the paddle shifters on the fly without having to shift into manual mode. It will then switch back to automatic mode after ~15 seconds or so. Not as engaging as a manual but not bad either. This will be a workhorse for Subaru for years to come.

Last edited by subyski; 11-10-2012 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:08 PM   #795
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Manual > *

I will never drive an automatic.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:00 AM   #796
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Manual > *

I will never drive an automatic.

How old are you? Manuals won't last forever. Unless you are near your end, or you can keep your car running forever.....
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:10 AM   #797
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Manual > *

I will never drive an automatic.
Word.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
How old are you? Manuals won't last forever. Unless you are near your end, or you can keep your car running forever.....

I would say you are wrong. There will always be a demand for manual cars of some sort.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11211095...sions---report

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/09/j...g-with-f-type/
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:14 AM   #798
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I am on the same train of thought that manuals are geting a bit antiquated. Although I would prefer a dual clutch tranny over a CVT I am willing to give the CVT a try. Driving an Evo MR made me a believer, oh and by no means do you loose driver conectivity with a DSG. I hope they make this an option on the next WRX, maybe an STI thing at least.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:18 AM   #799
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Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post

I would say you are wrong. There will always be a demand for manual cars of some sort.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11211095...sions---report

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/09/j...g-with-f-type/

I believe in my lifetime, manuals will disappear. Not as efficient as an auto anymore and I believe that gap will widen as the tech gets better.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:20 AM   #800
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How old are you? Manuals won't last forever. Unless you are near your end, or you can keep your car running forever.....
While it is a dying breed, I will hope you are wrong.
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