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Old 11-10-2012, 11:40 PM   #801
Jumpem
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Originally Posted by Derbagger View Post
The thing is...in the time it takes to shift gears in a manual, the CVT car get to the optimum gear.....except for one thing...
THE DRIVER CAN ANTICIPATE!!
By viewing the road ahead, downshifting for a corner or getting ready to accelerate on a uphill on-ramp, a manual driver can get into gear ahead of time. And by being in a gear, there is less variability in the acceleration (part throttle cornering in a CVT can be MADDENING)

All that said, for the large part of the historic Subaru buyer (a large part of Vermont for instance) the CVT will be just fine. And for those with a daily grind stop and go commute, it will be fine as well.

I enjoy driving a manual transmission car. It engages the driver, allows more control, and is more rewarding to drive. And by requiring the driver to anticipate up or downshifts, it causes one to pay even closer attention to the surrounding conditions.

In my opinion, the majority of 2.5 Forester buyers are not going to hustle the car much. Pairing the manual with the 2.0T would better satisfy the enthusiast looking for a quick but useful vehicle.

I also think it's a bit of fear that the two 2.0T applications so far for this motor in the JDM Legacy and this Forester might mean that Subaru could think the WRX would be fine with the CVT....which would mean I would never own one myself.
You can "down shift" for engine braking just fine with the CVT.
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Old 11-10-2012, 11:54 PM   #802
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Manual mode on an automatic is as close to a manual transmission as I'll ever get. I wouldn't feel any more engaged with the experience if I were managing the clutch and shifter. Encountering traffic in an automatic is less of a chore as well.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:14 AM   #803
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As much as I hate to say this... I wish I had the DCT in my 135. I love shifting, but it can be a chore during the commute. Problem is, as soon as I didn't have the 6MT, I'll want it back like nothing else. A CUV family truckster like the Forester? Oh yeah, we'll be getting the CVT and loving it. I have no desire to shift an SUV / CUV. None at all.
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:35 AM   #804
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I believe in my lifetime, manuals will disappear. Not as efficient as an auto anymore and I believe that gap will widen as the tech gets better.
Given the fact that most of the people who prefer manuals are aging and the younger generations don't care to drive or don't care for manuals, I completely agree with you.
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:41 AM   #805
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
As much as I hate to say this... I wish I had the DCT in my 135. I love shifting, but it can be a chore during the commute. Problem is, as soon as I didn't have the 6MT, I'll want it back like nothing else. A CUV family truckster like the Forester? Oh yeah, we'll be getting the CVT and loving it. I have no desire to shift an SUV / CUV. None at all.
Lol, that's what you get for taking I-25 or the backroads!
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:14 AM   #806
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Given the fact that most of the people who prefer manuals are aging and the younger generations don't care to drive or don't care for manuals, I completely agree with you.

Aren't we all aging?

I'm in my 20's drive a manual, have driven a manual in every car I have every owned and will continue to drive a manual in every car I own into the future. Period. Manual is just better for me.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:31 AM   #807
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...will continue to drive a manual in every car I own into the future. Period. Manual is just better for me.
That's nice. Not like your views are shared across the majority of our generation though. We are all "aging" but when used in the context I put it in it meant old. The majority of our generation do not prefer manuals like you do and the minority that does have always been a minority.

As someone else has already said, people who prefer manuals are literally a dying breed. Subaru understands that. It is clearly shown in their mainstream products. The previous and current generations of Outbacks and Foresters prove that to a point as you go higher in trim levels.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:00 AM   #808
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As someone else has already said, people who prefer manuals are literally a dying breed. Subaru understands that. It is clearly shown in their mainstream products. The previous and current generations of Outbacks and Foresters prove that to a point as you go higher in trim levels.

And yet Subaru still offers manual cars. Wake me up when the stop offering manuals completely.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:16 AM   #809
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And yet Subaru still offers manual cars. Wake me up when the stop offering manuals completely.
Of course, on the lower trims of their mainstream products. Not having a manual option, or rather base model in this case, would raise Subaru's base model MSRP. A minority is still a minority even if it's a customer audience. Subaru's niche segment is just expanding with mainstream design and features.

Toyota still offers manuals on the base trim on their mainstream models as does Ford. There's no need to wake up those who are stubborn. Reality checks come in all shapes, sizes, and gear ratios.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:20 AM   #810
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I've always preferred manuals to older slush-box automatics and have purchased nothing but manual equipped cars for well over 30 years, but the potential of CVTs have me excited. I doubt we will see all the potential of CVTs at first, but I suspect that the advancements will come rather quickly.
How would you feel if you could have a car without shifter or paddles, but with 3 pedals, one for brake, one for acceleration as we now know it (basically RPMs), and a third pedal where one used to find the clutch with linear progressive (without set ratios, but rather continuous) torque control that could be activated at the drivers whim, after which the CVT would automatically resume auto mode? This would appear to me to offer the driver greater control with less inertia and less disconnect than any manual.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:23 AM   #811
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Originally Posted by Palnick View Post
I don't understand what everyone's obsession is with manual. Manual is cheap old technology. It's basic. There's not much benefit if any over subarus cvt. you have to understand that the new cvt is designed as such that when you hit the accelerator you don't have to change gears it's at constant peak for torque. A stick shift would never compare.
Except for the little part where the 2012 Impreza is still faster with a manual than with the CVT.
Quote:
2012 Subaru Impreza 2.0L (Manual) 0-60 mph 8.5 Quarter Mile 16.4

2012 Subaru Impreza 2.0L (CVT) 0-60 mph 8.9 Quarter Mile 16.8

http://www.zeroto60times.com/Subaru-0-60-mph-Times.html
All of the talk about the CVT Impreza being faster was in comparison to the previous cars equipped with the ancient 4EAT.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:58 AM   #812
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So then why not bring back roll down windows and not opt for the power lock doors. Lol. Stubborn people will never change or learn. Cvt is the future, manual is an option for those who can't afford the exta $$$
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:09 AM   #813
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So then why not bring back roll down windows and not opt for the power lock doors. Lol. Stubborn people will never change or learn. Cvt is the future, manual is an option for those who can't afford the exta $$$
CAFE likes to laugh in the face of manual transmission enthusiasts I guess.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:28 AM   #814
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[quote=Calamity Jesus;38468976]Except for the little part where the 2012 Impreza is still faster with a manual than with the CVT.

That might be due to the CVT being programed with an emphasis on fuel economy rather than performance. There might be driver controlled emphasis control available in the future.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:36 AM   #815
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Originally Posted by WRX4US View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Except for the little part where the 2012 Impreza is still faster with a manual than with the CVT.
That might be due to the CVT being programed with an emphasis on fuel economy rather than performance. There might be driver controlled emphasis control available in the future.
The 2014 JDM Subaru Forester has sport and intelligent modes mounted near the EyeSight/cruise controls on the CVT models. So basically driver controlled emphasis is already there. Just not on the Impreza, yet.

http://subarublog.wordpress.com/2012...carousel-14245

;D They have SI drive over there. I'm wondering if the USDM Subaru Forester will get SI drive too.
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:58 AM   #816
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the anarchy button is back



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Old 11-11-2012, 10:59 AM   #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palnick
So then why not bring back roll down windows and not opt for the power lock doors. Lol. Stubborn people will never change or learn. Cvt is the future, manual is an option for those who can't afford the exta $$$
Lol, the cvt drives like ass, no thanks!
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:12 AM   #818
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Lol, the cvt drives like ass, no thanks!
Damn, I had no idea you WENT to the domestic markets that has the 2014 Subaru Forester with the CVT. You must have had a blast driving around in them with the CVT IN THE 2014 Subaru Forester and NOT in the current lineup in the USDM.

Otherwise you really have no room to talk about the CVT in the USDM 2014 Subaru Forester until it gets here.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:33 AM   #819
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Originally Posted by WRX4US View Post
I've always preferred manuals to older slush-box automatics and have purchased nothing but manual equipped cars for well over 30 years, but the potential of CVTs have me excited. I doubt we will see all the potential of CVTs at first, but I suspect that the advancements will come rather quickly.
How would you feel if you could have a car without shifter or paddles, but with 3 pedals, one for brake, one for acceleration as we now know it (basically RPMs), and a third pedal where one used to find the clutch with linear progressive (without set ratios, but rather continuous) torque control that could be activated at the drivers whim, after which the CVT would automatically resume auto mode? This would appear to me to offer the driver greater control with less inertia and less disconnect than any manual.

Its like you read my mind, I was so thinking about this....a compromise for sure, b/c as of right now its either one way other the other: Full CVT or Full Manual. The unfortunate truth is auto companies don't have any incentive for creating something like this, they'd rather stick to what is most cost effective and can be readily sourced.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:40 AM   #820
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
As much as I hate to say this... I wish I had the DCT in my 135. I love shifting, but it can be a chore during the commute. Problem is, as soon as I didn't have the 6MT, I'll want it back like nothing else. A CUV family truckster like the Forester? Oh yeah, we'll be getting the CVT and loving it. I have no desire to shift an SUV / CUV. None at all.
I have to agree...

I'm totally against automatics of any kind when its applied to a sports car but lets be real, if you're buying a CUV or SUV....who gives a crap.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:58 AM   #821
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the anarchy button is back



Lol, what is it really for? And I don't see the hill descent control.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:19 PM   #822
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I have no idea
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:24 PM   #823
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It looks like it allows the opposite wheels (say FL and RR) to gain traction and it is also hill decent control. Look at the picture in the brochure below.

Doesn't anyone read japanese!?


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Old 11-11-2012, 12:42 PM   #824
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Originally Posted by Palnick View Post
So then why not bring back roll down windows and not opt for the power lock doors. Lol. Stubborn people will never change or learn. Cvt is the future, manual is an option for those who can't afford the exta $$$
Sorry I can't help ignorance.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:15 PM   #825
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Originally Posted by Palnick View Post
manual is an option for those who can't afford the exta $$$
Or those that have a bad left knee or leg that can not support using a clutch....

CVT is a much better choice than the AT, IMHO. Have a bad knee and can no longer use a clutch with reliability.
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