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Old 11-20-2012, 09:32 AM   #1151
gathermewool
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
LOL! Ooops. Needs a hood scoop.


Just spread your legs more or less to adjust flow to that 6-bbl (EDIT: Hmm, wonder why the .jpg doesn't show my paintshop work...)

To stay on topic, I'm a grown up now and am strongly considering a switch to something like this in a couple of years. I like everything about it, but the CVT (with which I can live with, though.)
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:06 AM   #1152
iowasuby
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I use my roof rails all the time. We have a roof basket for our Rav 4 and having a baby and a dog, we use it anytime we go on a trip. It's the only place we can put our luggage and we carry our bikes on the back at the same time.

Also, i've used it for large furniture boxes that won't fit inside the vehicle. I simply lay the box flat on the rails and ratchet strap it in place.

I have a feeling you don't own a house yet or have a family. The roof rack becomes essential.

Also, try doing winter sports of kayaking without a roof rack.
Yeah, I can see the appeal to roof racks but even with a house and family of 4 I wouldn't use them. If it doesn't fit in the back, I pay to have it delivered. We carry bikes on the back with a hitch bike rack and my winter sport is snowshoeing, which easily fits in the back too. We rent kayaks from a place here in town, they come on a trailer. The risk to scratching my vehicle just isn't worth it. Just my opinion though, I want to delete those roof racks.

Also, not sure who posted that you should buy a sports car instead of the Forester, but I think you are dead wrong. The Forester has always been decent at being a sports car-like thing along with giving you great utility. I'd move up to the Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8, but 8mpg, higher insurance and a $20,000 more expensive price tag prevents me from buying it. Also, having owned 5 Subarus in the past, I'm inclined to stay with the brand I know and trust. There's no reason the Forester can't fill that niche, it has all the makings of being a fun to drive decent sports car-like vehicle, while offering storage and roominess for a family. My 2010 LGT does a decent job too, but it's manual only and my wife can't drive it. Also the trunk on the LGT is horrible.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:14 AM   #1153
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That's practically un-American.
when i actually own a house instead of renting a 1 bedroom apt in a highrise complex, then probably put my axe to use and get a real tree. it would be very un-American to not have any tree.

i am quite certain the roof rail will be removable, but it wont be easy. and i sure subaru will offer them as options in certain trim packages while standard on higher trim levels. many people had this issue with the 2012 sport impreza. what do to with the rails. one person with through the process of removing them. some people found a use for them, and other just learned to live with it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:30 PM   #1154
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FHI issued a press release today about the new Forester's North American debut at the LA Auto show. It's at http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/contents/pdf_en_85781.pdf. It says that FHI's President & CEO, Yasuyuki Yoshinaga will speak at the press briefing scheduled for 3:40 PM PST, November 28 at the Subaru booth. I assume Tom Doll, SOA EVP & COO & CFO, will also speak.

There are also some details about what else will be displayed at Subaru's booth, along with an artist's rendering of what the booth will look like.

SOA's webpage at http://www.subaru.com/auto-show/la-2012.html invites visitors to "Watch the Live Unveiling from the LA Auto Show" and its countdown clock for the event correctly takes into account your computer's time zone offset from PST, if any.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:46 PM   #1155
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As far as the 2014 Subaru Forester being equipped with EyeSight, I sent an e-mail to SoA for the 2013 Subaru Outback because people were saying that it couldn't be offered with EyeSight if you chose Crystal Black Silica. I doubt The 2014 Subaru Forester will be any different in terms of not offering EyeSight with Obsidian Black Pearl.

Quote:
Dear [Removed]:

Thank you for your email received by Subaru of America, Inc. We appreciate you taking the time to contact us.

Fuji Heavy Industries performs extreme hot weather testing in Death Valley, CA. before placing vehicles to market. Based upon this hot weather testing, it has been found that extreme heat could compromise the EyeSight system. For this reason, EyeSight is not offered on Crystal Black Silica Outback vehicles. FHI and Subaru want to help keep their owners safe and their vehicles functioning properly.

If you have future comments or questions, please contact us again.

Sincerely,

Lana Downs
Subaru of America, Inc.
Customer/Dealer Services Department
1-800-SUBARU3 (1-800-782-2783)
[Removed]




[Removed]

-----Original Message-----
From: [Removed]
Sent: 11/19/2012 10:55:41 PM
To: CustDlrServices@subaru.com
Subject: [Removed] Product Information

Is it true that Subaru is no longer offering the Crystal Black Silica exterior color on the 2013 Subaru Outback equipped with EyeSight because the heat from the sun can cause issues with the EyeSight system?
Black wouldn't be my first choice for exterior colors but I guess it's nice to know.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:37 PM   #1156
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Where do you put your Christmas tree? Inside the vehicle?
I have a fake tree. But anything I buy goes inside of the vehicle. If it's too big (which is rare), I'll rent a pickup or van.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:42 PM   #1157
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Originally Posted by A W View Post
As far as the 2014 Subaru Forester being equipped with EyeSight, I sent an e-mail to SoA for the 2013 Subaru Outback because people were saying that it couldn't be offered with EyeSight if you chose Crystal Black Silica. I doubt The 2014 Subaru Forester will be any different in terms of not offering EyeSight with Obsidian Black Pearl.



Black wouldn't be my first choice for exterior colors but I guess it's nice to know.
Interesting... mythbusters did a white car vs black car experiment and the black got about 10 degrees hotter. Does 10 degrees really make that much difference? Eyesight seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:12 PM   #1158
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Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
Interesting... mythbusters did a white car vs black car experiment and the black got about 10 degrees hotter. Does 10 degrees really make that much difference? Eyesight seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
It's enough to warrant SoA to not offer it on vehicles. And yes, 10 degrees Fahrenheit makes all the difference.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:17 PM   #1159
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Originally Posted by spaceywilly

Interesting... mythbusters did a white car vs black car experiment and the black got about 10 degrees hotter. Does 10 degrees really make that much difference? Eyesight seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
One degree makes the difference between melting, freezing, combusting, ect.... You get the point... Hehe. Ten degrees is a big deal.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:35 PM   #1160
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I think the problem is not with melting or component failure but with the heat distortion affecting the camera's ability to recognize targets. It just seems concerning to me that the system is operating so close to its operating limits that the color of paint can put it outside those limits. This is not just an electric gizmo that could cause some inconvenience if it stops working, it is something that is entrusted with control of the vehicle. My concern is that peole will overtrust the system and use it when it is not reliable, leading to accidents.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:49 PM   #1161
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Basically you're saying that if the system should be relied upon in any degree (no pun intended), then it shouldn't matter what color vehicle it's attached to? I can see that. I'd want them to make it robust enough to where they could throw it on a deep, matte black car intertwined with black, cotton threads and still have it work consistently.

I'd want it to work on a car like this, all black, though.

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Old 11-20-2012, 10:02 PM   #1162
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Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
I think the problem is not with melting or component failure but with the heat distortion affecting the camera's ability to recognize targets. It just seems concerning to me that the system is operating so close to its operating limits that the color of paint can put it outside those limits. This is not just an electric gizmo that could cause some inconvenience if it stops working, it is something that is entrusted with control of the vehicle. My concern is that peole will overtrust the system and use it when it is not reliable, leading to accidents.
People already do that with Volvo and BMW's. Component failure does have something to do with the fact that it's within an area of caution. It's not at it's limit. That's overstating it. It's just within an area that can potentially lead to other issues. Saying that it's reached it's limit is incorrect and inaccurate.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:21 PM   #1163
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People already do that with Volvo and BMW's. Component failure does have something to do with the fact that it's within an area of caution. It's not at it's limit. That's overstating it. It's just within an area that can potentially lead to other issues. Saying that it's reached it's limit is incorrect and inaccurate.
Volvo and BMW (and everyone else) use radar which makes a lot more sense to me. Subaru is using stereoscopic cameras mounted by the rear view mirror. I assumed they found some way to get around the obvious limitations of this but the fact that it doesn't work with cars that are painted black in hot weather doesn't give me much confidence. It seems like great technology if it works but also a huge liability if it doesn't.

Last edited by spaceywilly; 11-20-2012 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:25 PM   #1164
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Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
I think the problem is not with melting or component failure but with the heat distortion affecting the camera's ability to recognize targets. It just seems concerning to me that the system is operating so close to its operating limits that the color of paint can put it outside those limits. This is not just an electric gizmo that could cause some inconvenience if it stops working, it is something that is entrusted with control of the vehicle. My concern is that peole will overtrust the system and use it when it is not reliable, leading to accidents.

Not control. Assist. The system will stop working if the driver does anything. Only the pre-collision brake assist will do more than what the driver is doing, and that can only help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
Volvo and BMW (and everyone else) use radar which makes a lot more sense to me. Subaru is using stereoscopic cameras mounted by the rear view mirror. I assumed they found some way to get around the obvious limitations of this but the fact that it doesn't work with cars that are painted black in hot weather doesn't give me much confidence. It seems like great technology if it works but also a huge liability if it doesn't.

Radar is a "dumb" system that can't identify a problem. It just reacts to something that is in front of the vehicle. If a large beach ball bounces in front of your car, would you want it to slam on the brakes?

As for liability, it has it's "small print" in the manuals about it's limitations. Subaru has been developing this system at least 17 years and I have played with it a bunch. I trust it. It is also the drivers responsibility to know their car.

I also tell my customers that it IS an assist feature. DO NOT rely on it. Drive normal and this system will help avoid something that might have been unavoidable without it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:55 PM   #1165
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Subaru has been developing this system at least 17 years and I have played with it a bunch.
Subaru puts R&D effort into the weirdest places... They're always late coming to the table with stuff like interior comforts (steering wheel controls, etc.) and innovations like direct injection. But they spent 17 years on a glorified assist mechanism?
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:59 PM   #1166
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Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
...It just seems concerning to me that the system is operating so close to its operating limits that the color of paint can put it outside those limits...
The color of the paint plus the extreme hot weather of Death Valley could put it outside the limits. Subaru is being extra cautious (as usual) to avoid any rare scenario where a driver who happens to take their car to that extreme temperature also happens to have a black vehicle, and happens to be in an accident that EyeSight could've avoided or lessened.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:08 AM   #1167
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Originally Posted by rob1n1 View Post
Subaru puts R&D effort into the weirdest places... They're always late coming to the table with stuff like interior comforts (steering wheel controls, etc.) and innovations like direct injection. But they spent 17 years on a glorified assist mechanism?
I couldn't agree more!
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:40 AM   #1168
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Originally Posted by rob1n1 View Post
Subaru puts R&D effort into the weirdest places... They're always late coming to the table with stuff like interior comforts (steering wheel controls, etc.) and innovations like direct injection. But they spent 17 years on a glorified assist mechanism?
Subaru used to be an incredibly innovative company.. but they quickly learned that innovation doesn't sell cars.

In 1987 you could buy a sportscar with the lowest Cd (ever) a tilt/reach adjustable steering wheel (with tilting gauge cluster), a trip computer, headlight washers and a single front wiper blade.. or you could buy a station wagon with a turbo, height adjustable suspension and a dual range AWD transmission... or you could even buy an economical sub-compact with a CVT... all at a Subaru dealership.


Saying they're late to the party is hilarious. They're just far more conservative about adding features after getting burned by slow sales.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:50 PM   #1169
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Originally Posted by rob1n1 View Post
Subaru puts R&D effort into the weirdest places... They're always late coming to the table with stuff like interior comforts (steering wheel controls, etc.) and innovations like direct injection. But they spent 17 years on a glorified assist mechanism?
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Originally Posted by iowasuby View Post
I couldn't agree more!
If you look at the 1995 Alpha-Exiga concept, it has 2 CCD cameras. It also has VDC. That tells me they have been working on it since AT LEAST then. Obviously longer than that to have it in a concept.

http://a15ff11300g.sakura.ne.jp/cata...w.large.g.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Subaru used to be an incredibly innovative company.. but they quickly learned that innovation doesn't sell cars.

In 1987 you could buy a sportscar with the lowest Cd (ever) a tilt/reach adjustable steering wheel (with tilting gauge cluster), a trip computer, headlight washers and a single front wiper blade.. or you could buy a station wagon with a turbo, height adjustable suspension and a dual range AWD transmission... or you could even buy an economical sub-compact with a CVT... all at a Subaru dealership.


Saying they're late to the party is hilarious. They're just far more conservative about adding features after getting burned by slow sales.
Since a couple of those things weren't all that reliable.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:54 PM   #1170
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They actually show the lenses on the 2nd Exiga concept 2 years later.

http://a15ff11300g.sakura.ne.jp/cata...w.large.e.html
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:09 PM   #1171
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Looks like North America was third on FHI's list of where to debut the new Forester. This is from an FHI press release issued today at http://www.fhi.co.jp/english/contents/pdf_en_85867.pdf.
Quote:
All-New Subaru Forester Makes Chinese Debut
at 2012 Guangzhou International Motor Show


Tokyo, November 22, 2012 - Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. (FHI), the maker of Subaru automobiles, today announced that the all-new Forester has made its Chinese debut at the 2012 Guangzhou International Motor Show which opened today in Guangzhou, China.

The all-new Forester was developed with the goal to maximize its value as a true SUV. Featuring the renowned Subaru symmetrical All-Wheel Drive (AWD) system as its core technology, the fourth generation Forester offers a higher level of driving, safety and environmental performance combined with enhanced quality as an SUV delivering further improved fun-to-drive performance, utility and long-distance ride comfort.

The new Forester for the Chinese market comes standard with special features including the "Shark Fin" style radio antenna and side window chrome moldings applied around the whole perimeter to enhance its product appeal to the Chinese customers.
As Subaru's popular SUV which makes up 50% of the brand's sales in China, the all-new Forester is expected to continue to lead Subaru sales in the market.


All-new Subaru Forester (Chinese Spec.)

Last edited by Cocoa Beach Bum; 11-23-2012 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:36 PM   #1172
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^Oh wow....I'm sure they're gonna support Subaru even more than we do

Come on Subaru....increased your investment here in the US.
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:26 PM   #1173
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^Oh wow....I'm sure they're gonna support Subaru even more than we do

Come on Subaru....increased your investment here in the US.
;D Let Subaru learn the hard way. I'm sure the Chinese will let them know how they really feel about Japanese car manufacturers up front and personal.
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:54 PM   #1174
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Subaru doesn't have any control over the dates auto shows are held. They would've had to debut at more minor shows in order to re-sequence the unveilings, and obviously it's a detriment to the brand to not have your debuts at the big shows. A few days here or there makes no practical difference. I have no problem with China's auto show coming first (as much as I would've personally liked to see a Forester unveiling a week ago at the Seattle Auto Show).
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Old 11-22-2012, 06:15 PM   #1175
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;D Let Subaru learn the hard way. I'm sure the Chinese will let them know how they really feel about Japanese car manufacturers up front and personal.
On the contrary, I think they're going to buy a bunch more than the rest of the world combined , and if they like it enough, Subaru will be a Chinese company before long !
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