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Old 02-23-2013, 05:13 PM   #2301
scapone4
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Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post

Depends what you call fast but the MS3 should be a full 1 sec quicker 0-60 than the XT. These aren't even similar cars so not sure why we are comparing them.
Not comparing them. Those are just the 3 that I am thinking of getting.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:32 PM   #2302
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Originally Posted by SubieMonte View Post
And costs much more to operate. I'm done with Premium. Until the new WRX is out!

Don't have to with the XT and I think it will perform fine with regular.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:28 PM   #2303
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
You do realize the XT isn't going to be particularly fast, right?
Wood it b f4st3r wit' uh six-speedz manual??
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:33 PM   #2304
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Someone should do a comparison of the fuel economy with 89 vs 93 octane once these are out. In my old maxima I used to run 93 because it got about 3mpg (14%) more on premium than regular, and it only cost about 10% more. Now that the cost if gas has gone up, the difference between the price of premium and regular will be even less percentage wise, so I think it will still be cheaper to run premium. That's why I never cared that my wrx and BRZ both require premium.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:09 PM   #2305
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I can't stop thinking about the new Forester XT. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable buying a first-year 2.0T/CVT, but I'm damned tempted to replace my STI with one after it proves to be reliable. If nothing major crops up and this things gets as much praise I hope it will, I'll probably be replacing my '08 STI with a '15 FXT.
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:05 PM   #2306
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Wood it b f4st3r wit' uh six-speedz manual??
Faster than the ST & MS3 to 60mph? Most likely 'yes',.. due to the launch. In the 1/4? Doubtful.

With the CVT it looks to be a dog.
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:56 PM   #2307
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Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
Someone should do a comparison of the fuel economy with 89 vs 93 octane once these are out. In my old maxima I used to run 93 because it got about 3mpg (14%) more on premium than regular, and it only cost about 10% more. Now that the cost if gas has gone up, the difference between the price of premium and regular will be even less percentage wise, so I think it will still be cheaper to run premium. That's why I never cared that my wrx and BRZ both require premium.
And how did you determine that? There is no reason for higher octane gas to give you better mileage if your car does not need it. Possible explanations for the increase in mileage are:

1) The higher octane gas did not have ethanol in it
2) You didn't take enough data
3) You used regular gas in the winter, then switched to high octane in the spring
4) You filled up with high octane before highway driving "for better mileage"
5) Confirmation bias
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:11 AM   #2308
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Originally Posted by gathermewool View Post
I can't stop thinking about the new Forester XT. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable buying a first-year 2.0T/CVT, but I'm damned tempted to replace my STI with one after it proves to be reliable. If nothing major crops up and this things gets as much praise I hope it will, I'll probably be replacing my '08 STI with a '15 FXT.
The 2.0 DIT and CVT has been on sale in the Legacy and Outback for over a year now, just not in the U.S. This is the 2nd year this combo has been in a Subaru, the Forester just happens to be the first USDM model to receive it.
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Old 02-24-2013, 12:42 AM   #2309
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Originally Posted by iowasuby View Post
The 2.0 DIT and CVT has been on sale in the Legacy and Outback for over a year now, just not in the U.S. This is the 2nd year this combo has been in a Subaru, the Forester just happens to be the first USDM model to receive it.
The EJ20 & 5MT were sold over-seas for many years.. and then in '02 the WRX had fuel leak issues in cold weather and broken transmissions.


.. just saying..
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:16 AM   #2310
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Originally Posted by gathermewool View Post
I can't stop thinking about the new Forester XT. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable buying a first-year 2.0T/CVT, but I'm damned tempted to replace my STI with one after it proves to be reliable. If nothing major crops up and this things gets as much praise I hope it will, I'll probably be replacing my '08 STI with a '15 FXT.
Nah, something tells me you'll opt for the new Legacy(unless you are going for cargo utility).

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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
The EJ20 & 5MT were sold over-seas for many years.. and then in '02 the WRX had fuel leak issues in cold weather and broken transmissions.


.. just saying..
Even though it still wasn't THAT big an issue, don't you think they learned their lesson? Their regular 1st gen and 2nd gen CVTs are basically maintenance free. No major issues in 4 model years. I have full confidence in the HTLCVT and wouldn't think twice about it.

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Originally Posted by C4RBON_F1BER View Post
And how did you determine that? There is no reason for higher octane gas to give you better mileage if your car does not need it. Possible explanations for the increase in mileage are:

1) The higher octane gas did not have ethanol in it
2) You didn't take enough data
3) You used regular gas in the winter, then switched to high octane in the spring
4) You filled up with high octane before highway driving "for better mileage"
5) Confirmation bias
I am sure not being totally computer controlled might have something to do with it, but my '88 Justy would only get 280ish on a tank of regular but would get 320-330 on premium.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:20 AM   #2311
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;D I don't ever need to tow and probably never will need to but what do you think that Forester was towing? That popup camper had to be under the US tow rating looking that small but I don't know much about towing so I can't tell just from eyeballing it how much it would weigh.

Last edited by A W; 02-24-2013 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:10 AM   #2312
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Lots of '13 still on dealer lots. Should be a fire sale on them soon as they get about 4-5mpg less than the incoming models.

Doing the math on the difference in my gas mileage usage, it's about $350/year in gas. Extrapolate that out over 5 years, and that's just under $2k. I'm willing to bet you'll be able to get a 13 under invoice by $2-$3k really soon.

--kC
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:40 AM   #2313
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Nah, something tells me you'll opt for the new Legacy(unless you are going for cargo utility).
You may be right, and the decision may be made by how each handles. I've had both the previous-gen Forester and the current-gen Leggy as loaners (a few days each) and while both were very nice and quiet compared to my STI, they drove like boats, even compared to other vehicles in the same class (i.e., not just a, "this thing a'int nothin' compared to my STI!)

As I grow older, my tastes have changed, and things like cargo space (STI has a decent amount...with the seats folded down,) ground clearance (access and snow driving, despite handling,) and a few other amenities that can only be had in an STI for lots of dollars.

This is why, if the '14 FXT handles well, it may offer the best of all worlds, and at a price point similar to a base STI.

The temptation now lies in that the '13 and previous Foresters are being discounted, with financing at 0% for 63 months. IIRC, the '13 and previous FXT has the same exact suspension as the non-turbo Fozzy, but is able to utilize a lot of parts (e.g., sways) from the WRX/STI...
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:49 AM   #2314
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Lots of '13 still on dealer lots. Should be a fire sale on them soon as they get about 4-5mpg less than the incoming models.

Doing the math on the difference in my gas mileage usage, it's about $350/year in gas. Extrapolate that out over 5 years, and that's just under $2k. I'm willing to bet you'll be able to get a 13 under invoice by $2-$3k really soon.

--kC

Dang. I do that in a month!

We will give deals, but I doubt we'll go that far under invoice. Our approach is going to be "2014 at MSRP. If you want a "deal", we have this 2013"
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:21 PM   #2315
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Lots of '13 still on dealer lots. Should be a fire sale on them soon as they get about 4-5mpg less than the incoming models.

Doing the math on the difference in my gas mileage usage, it's about $350/year in gas. Extrapolate that out over 5 years, and that's just under $2k. I'm willing to bet you'll be able to get a 13 under invoice by $2-$3k really soon.

--kC
$2-$3k under invoice would mean that the dealership will be paying you to purchase the car. Not likely; however, something closer to $1k might be achievable.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:25 PM   #2316
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Dang. I do that in a month!

We will give deals, but I doubt we'll go that far under invoice. Our approach is going to be "2014 at MSRP. If you want a "deal", we have this 2013"
If I was going for the 2014, it would be the XT-Touring, special ordered, at no more than invoice for the car and all additional accessories. That way the dealership really has no skin in the game and will still profit (Holdover, Display allowances, promos, etc...). Did that for my '13 Outback SAP and '12 Impreza Sport Limited - got a good deal on both of them and it was a win-win situation.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:07 PM   #2317
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And how did you determine that? There is no reason for higher octane gas to give you better mileage if your car does not need it. Possible explanations for the increase in mileage are:

1) The higher octane gas did not have ethanol in it
2) You didn't take enough data
3) You used regular gas in the winter, then switched to high octane in the spring
4) You filled up with high octane before highway driving "for better mileage"
5) Confirmation bias
By measuring the mileage with 87 and then measuring the mileage with 93... that's why I was suggesting someone should try it with the new XT and see what the difference is. Maybe there won't be a mileage difference with the modern FA engine and E15 gas, on my old Maxima when gas was still gas it made a big difference.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:49 PM   #2318
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
The EJ20 & 5MT were sold over-seas for many years.. and then in '02 the WRX had fuel leak issues in cold weather and broken transmissions.


.. just saying..
I hope in 11 years, Subaru has learned their lesson?

No worries anyway, that's what a warranty is for if there is a problem.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:10 PM   #2319
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Until the fuel leak rears its ugly head after warranty. Just like many of the 04s and 05s that are leaking, like mine. And SOA won't do squat about it. But I'll still by the 14 F for the wife and new WRX for me.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:12 PM   #2320
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I hope in 11 years, Subaru has learned their lesson?

No worries anyway, that's what a warranty is for if there is a problem.
People buy a vehicle and one of the most important if not number one thing they look for is reliability. A warranty can fix what is broken that should have not broke before a certain amount of time. It cannot however give back the amount of time lost because that warranty was needed in the first place. There is a big difference and some of us feel it more than others because of our profession. ;D
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:43 PM   #2321
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Dang. I do that in a month!

We will give deals, but I doubt we'll go that far under invoice. Our approach is going to be "2014 at MSRP. If you want a "deal", we have this 2013"
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

I do 350 miles/week on average. That's about 18,500 miles a year.

That $350 in gas/year is the DIFFERENCE between if I were to get a 13 or a 14. IOW, if I got a 13, I would consume another $350/year in gas due to the gas mileage differences between the two. If I were to own it for 5 years, it would be about $2k in gas for those 5 years.

If I got $2k-$3k off a 13, then it might make it a worthwhile purchase. Those that don't drive as much, then $1k off could seem like a bargain vs a 14.

--kC
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:11 PM   #2322
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

I do 350 miles/week on average. That's about 18,500 miles a year.

That $350 in gas/year is the DIFFERENCE between if I were to get a 13 or a 14. IOW, if I got a 13, I would consume another $350/year in gas due to the gas mileage differences between the two. If I were to own it for 5 years, it would be about $2k in gas for those 5 years.

If I got $2k-$3k off a 13, then it might make it a worthwhile purchase. Those that don't drive as much, then $1k off could seem like a bargain vs a 14.

--kC
Just for S&G's, I'm putting out my interweb feelers at various dealers to see how much they're willing to discount their '13's. I REALLY like the '14's, but getting a '13 XT Touring for multiple-thousands less than a comparable '14 might make sense. One point to make contrary to yours, is that the '13 and previous FXT drivetrain is pretty durable, at least from what I've read. Like the venerable straight-6 4.0L found in older Jeeps, they weren't powerful or modern by any stretch, but they sure as **** last forever (again, so I've read.)

Also, given my experience with how SUV-like they handle, I'm certain that if I decide to trade the STI in, it will be for practical reasons alone.

More than likely, I'll hold out and test-drive a '14 and (again, fingers crossed) fall in love with it. I probably won't love it enough to pay anywhere close to MSRP, but enough to pickup a leftover MY14 at the end of the year or actively pursue buying a MY15 sometime in 2015.
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:15 PM   #2323
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People buy a vehicle and one of the most important if not number one thing they look for is reliability. A warranty can fix what is broken that should have not broke before a certain amount of time. It cannot however give back the amount of time lost because that warranty was needed in the first place. There is a big difference and some of us feel it more than others because of our profession. ;D
And yet people continue to buy Nissans....


Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

I do 350 miles/week on average. That's about 18,500 miles a year.

That $350 in gas/year is the DIFFERENCE between if I were to get a 13 or a 14. IOW, if I got a 13, I would consume another $350/year in gas due to the gas mileage differences between the two. If I were to own it for 5 years, it would be about $2k in gas for those 5 years.

If I got $2k-$3k off a 13, then it might make it a worthwhile purchase. Those that don't drive as much, then $1k off could seem like a bargain vs a 14.

--kC

Would invoice + 0% for 63 add up to those numbers for you?

Last edited by JustyWRC; 02-24-2013 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:08 PM   #2324
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Originally Posted by A W View Post
People buy a vehicle and one of the most important if not number one thing they look for is reliability. A warranty can fix what is broken that should have not broke before a certain amount of time. It cannot however give back the amount of time lost because that warranty was needed in the first place. There is a big difference and some of us feel it more than others because of our profession. ;D
My 2010 LGT was in the ship at least 6 times, it was a hassle but my dealership gave me a loaner and took care of me. I haven't been as lucky with other brands but I understand your point. The real problem is finding another real AWD with turbo that is more reliable/has less problems.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:24 AM   #2325
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And yet people continue to buy Nissans....
People still bought the Subaru Outback when it had the reverse CVT issue, steering wheel vibrations, as well as other Subarus with the banjo bolt filter on the turbos, etc.

You can bash on Nissan all you want but they sell more vehicles than Subaru for a reason. You obviously can't see that though.
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