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Old 03-06-2013, 05:57 PM   #2451
staryoshi
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Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
Yeah starting price is significantly higher than the Forester XT, but it comes with a lot of nice features stock. Plus if you are willing to go used, can get them for a good price. But then you have to deal with MB reliability + cost of maintenance/repairs.
Adding any options pulls that guy into the low to mid 40's awfully quick. (It does not come with leather, for instance). I do LOVE the 2.2L turbodiesel option with the 7-speed A/T and it's a good looking car, but I think I'd opt for a loaded (or near-loaded - I am not in need of eyesight et al, but I <3 push-button start :P) XT, an extended warranty, and pocket the difference, myself.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:34 PM   #2452
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Oh man.

Dealer near me has a '13 Forester Premium, 5spd. 63 months at 0%. White. Could probably walk out the door with it for $22k or less.

Decisions.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:02 PM   #2453
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:52 PM   #2454
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Originally Posted by schweezly View Post
In the XV thread someone said a dealer had told them the XV would be the hybrid. Maybe they know more than we think
http://clicccar.com/2013/01/15/210529/



This one ?
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:46 AM   #2455
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
But they have the 2014 model to order.... unless there won't be a MY14 WRX?
I suspect the 14MY WRX/STI to be a short run and they wouldn't try to make enough for lots AND fleets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
Interior volume has increased but that tow de-rating does suck. I don't think the tow capability is lost (see other markets) but more marketing bs. Subaru states that the new tow rating is more inline with the competitors in its segment which is true except for the CX-5's 2000 lb rating. I think SOA wants to draw more attention to the Outback for the increased towing. For most buyers, they won't tow heavy loads anyways.
Cost. That is the plain and simple answer to the tow rating drop. Where ever you want to consider that cost. Doesn't matter. That is the answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
Oh man.

Dealer near me has a '13 Forester Premium, 5spd. 63 months at 0%. White. Could probably walk out the door with it for $22k or less.

Decisions.
Dude. Jump on it. My manager would laugh at you if you came to him with that number(unless it was the last day of the month and we needed JUST that one more).

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Originally Posted by botbs View Post
That is the XV Concept.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:43 AM   #2456
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post


That is the XV Concept.

Correct me if I am wrong, it says スバル初のハイブリッド搭載, it means hybrid.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:58 AM   #2457
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Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
MB GLK is a nice family car with AWD and a hatch. Decently sporty as well with 302 hp. But I don't think it has as much cargo room as the Forester.
It also weighs 4100lbs.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:45 AM   #2458
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It also weighs 4100lbs.
Fatty fat fatty.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:54 AM   #2459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post

Yeah starting price is significantly higher than the Forester XT, but it comes with a lot of nice features stock. Plus if you are willing to go used, can get them for a good price. But then you have to deal with MB reliability + cost of maintenance/repairs.
No nav standard, fuel economy is terrible, requires premium, rolls on 19s with an option for 20s, iPod/iPhone connectivity is a $3500 option, navigation is a $2800 option, heated seats are a $750 option, etc etc etc.

What are these nice options you speak of in the base $39k?
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:12 PM   #2460
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Originally Posted by nhat View Post
No nav standard, fuel economy is terrible, requires premium, rolls on 19s with an option for 20s, iPod/iPhone connectivity is a $3500 option, navigation is a $2800 option, heated seats are a $750 option, etc etc etc.

What are these nice options you speak of in the base $39k?

Fuel economy isn't terrible for a +300hp SUV. It is similar to the '13 XT. 25/19/21 vs 24/19/21. Yes the new 2.0 XT gets another ~3mpg boost which is really nice.

It has a 3,500 lbs towing capacity vs. 1,500 lbs on the 2.0 XT.

Yes the GLK needs premium however the 2.0XT should probably be run with premium as well. Sure you can run regular, but you are going to get less hp and less mpg. Running premium is really a mute point between the two.

Yes the GLK comes on 19" stock with 20" as an option. The 2.0XT comes with 18" stock with no ability to upgrade.

I don't disagree that MB (just about all European manufacturers) has pricey options. That is to be expected. But a few standard features that come to mind are; start-stop feature, much nicer design and fit and finish of interior, dual zone climate control (like XT), power memory driver seat, it comes with AUX in and USB so not sure what you are talking about in reference to a $3500 option for iPod/iPhone connectivity.

Yes the MB is pricier than the XT Limited but for some people that might be worth it. I would never buy a GLK new, but might consider a lightly used one some day. In my opinion, better styling than the Subaru, nicer interior than Subaru, V6 > turbo 4, 7 speed auto > CVT. Is the GLK perfect? Hell no. But it is another option for someone considering a 2.0XT Touring.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:42 PM   #2461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
It has a 3,500 lbs towing capacity vs. 1,500 lbs on the 2.0 XT.
Keep in mind that for both the GLK and Forester (and for many other vehicles as well) those "maximum" towing capacites apply only when towing a trailer with brakes. Without trailer brakes the capacity is less. Couldn't find the unbraked capacity for the GLK, but for the 2014 Forester, 2013 Outback 3.6R, 2013 Mazda CX-5, 2012 Acura MDX, and many others, the unbraked towing capacity is the same 1000 lbs.

Last edited by Scottie; 03-07-2013 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:21 PM   #2462
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Originally Posted by botbs View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, it says スバル初のハイブリッド搭載, it means hybrid.

They probably just grabbed the "cooler" looking concept shots to say this was going to be hybrid. Look at the cameras in place of mirrors. You really expect that to be production? Even with real mirrors, if it looks like that, that will be pretty nice.
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Old 03-07-2013, 03:48 PM   #2463
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
They probably just grabbed the "cooler" looking concept shots to say this was going to be hybrid. Look at the cameras in place of mirrors. You really expect that to be production? Even with real mirrors, if it looks like that, that will be pretty nice.
Not sure; however, I believe that the "HV" designation is hybrid, as indicated - read the article (translated). I will concede that the picture is of the concept (XV).
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:43 PM   #2464
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I'd drive a current XV in that color. I like it.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:05 PM   #2465
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
Interior volume has increased but that tow de-rating does suck. I don't think the tow capability is lost (see other markets) but more marketing bs. Subaru states that the new tow rating is more inline with the competitors in its segment which is true except for the CX-5's 2000 lb rating.
Actually the marketing bs (spin) is on the CX-5's 2000 lbs rating. Mazda's rating applies to the total load. Passengers, vehicle load, hitch weight, trailer weight and trailer load. A couple passengers, luggage, gear, and the hitch can add up pretty quick and thus knocking down the towing capacity towards 1500 lbs. Mazda's owner's manual also recommends reducing the CX-5's 3-4% for every 1000 ft of elevation above sea level.

The Forester's tow rating is for the trailer weight and it's load only. In other words, you do not have to subtract the weight of vehicle occupants, vehicle load, and hitch weight from the 1500 lbs.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:51 PM   #2466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie View Post

Actually the marketing bs (spin) is on the CX-5's 2000 lbs rating. Mazda's rating applies to the total load. Passengers, vehicle load, hitch weight, trailer weight and trailer load. A couple passengers, luggage, gear, and the hitch can add up pretty quick and thus knocking down the towing capacity towards 1500 lbs. Mazda's owner's manual also recommends reducing the CX-5's 3-4% for every 1000 ft of elevation above sea level.

The Forester's tow rating is for the trailer weight and it's load only. In other words, you do not have to subtract the weight of vehicle occupants, vehicle load, and hitch weight from the 1500 lbs.
Did not know that. That is good information to know. So how does that change between FWD and AWD models (i.e. added weight from drivetrain and larger gas tank)? I thought Mazda listed tow rating on their website but I can't seem to find it now.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:37 PM   #2467
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Originally Posted by subyski View Post
I thought Mazda listed tow rating on their website but I can't seem to find it now.

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...ehicleCode=CX9

It is under "Engine & Mechanical." Scroll to the bottom where it has "Weights and Capacities." CX-9 has it listed as "(3500 with Tow Prep Package)."
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:56 PM   #2468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
They probably just grabbed the "cooler" looking concept shots to say this was going to be hybrid. Look at the cameras in place of mirrors. You really expect that to be production? Even with real mirrors, if it looks like that, that will be pretty nice.
It is the concept, that's it. BUT, I could see that as being the hybrids grill. Other manufacturers close up the grill for aerodynamics for hybrids and that concept has the wider wings. I hope they refresh the bumper for the hybrid. Make it stand out like the XV vs Impreza bumper.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:26 AM   #2469
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Brochures and model web pages are marketing materials. I always check the owners manual to find out all the restrictions that apply to the specifications shown in the brochure.

https://www.mymazda.com/MusaWeb/pdf/...013_CX5_OM.pdf

http://techinfo.subaru.com/proxy/708...03ASTIS_15.pdf

When it comes to warranty claims, it is the owners manual that will get referenced, not any marketing material.

I'd be curious if the CX-9, with the towing prep package, is pre-wired for a trailer brake controller? Per the owners manual, the CX-9 can only tow 1000 lbs with an unbraked trailer. 2000 lbs with a braked trailer but without tow prep package, and 3500 lbs with a braked trailer and tow prep package. Again, per Mazda's method of rating, the amount that can be towed drops as vehicle load goes up.

https://www.mymazda.com/MusaWeb/pdf/...013_CX9_OM.pdf

The 2014 Forester on the other hand can still tow the full 1500 lbs with a braked trailer even with the vehicle loaded to allowable limits.

Last edited by Scottie; 03-08-2013 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:57 AM   #2470
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We just recieved our first shipment of 2014's, I couldn't be more excited!!
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:20 AM   #2471
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We just recieved our first shipment of 2014's, I couldn't be more excited!!
Awesome!
Patiently waiting here in Colorado.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:49 AM   #2472
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Only one dealer in MA is listed as having '14s through Subaru of New England. I have a call into my local sales person to call me when the 14s show up and a Base or premium MT is ready for a test drive.

--kC
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:48 PM   #2473
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Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
The 2014 Forester on the other hand can still tow the full 1500 lbs with a braked trailer even with the vehicle loaded to allowable limits.
It is interesting that SOA labeled it that way. I have always seen the GCWR (gross combined weight rating) listed. The CX-9 can do GCWR of 8337 lbs with a max GVWR of 5997 with a not to exceed occupants and cargo weight of 850 lbs. Most others are is much the same: max combined rating, vehicle weight, you figure out the rest. Also note that there are different lists for boats and trailers, Mazda lists it as you calculating the frontal area of the trailer for derating. Other just say boat or trailer.

I could not find the vehicle weight or a GVWR (fully loaded weight) for the '14 Forester in the , general, specifications or driving tips documents????

I would say it is a shame that SOA will only list the tow rating for the Forester as if it were completely loaded to GVWR as the allowable max at all times.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:33 PM   #2474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
Actually the marketing bs (spin) is on the CX-5's 2000 lbs rating. Mazda's rating applies to the total load. Passengers, vehicle load, hitch weight, trailer weight and trailer load. A couple passengers, luggage, gear, and the hitch can add up pretty quick and thus knocking down the towing capacity towards 1500 lbs. Mazda's owner's manual also recommends reducing the CX-5's 3-4% for every 1000 ft of elevation above sea level.

The Forester's tow rating is for the trailer weight and it's load only. In other words, you do not have to subtract the weight of vehicle occupants, vehicle load, and hitch weight from the 1500 lbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...ehicleCode=CX9

It is under "Engine & Mechanical." Scroll to the bottom where it has "Weights and Capacities." CX-9 has it listed as "(3500 with Tow Prep Package)."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
Brochures and model web pages are marketing materials. I always check the owners manual to find out all the restrictions that apply to the specifications shown in the brochure.

https://www.mymazda.com/MusaWeb/pdf/...013_CX5_OM.pdf

http://techinfo.subaru.com/proxy/708...03ASTIS_15.pdf

When it comes to warranty claims, it is the owners manual that will get referenced, not any marketing material.

I'd be curious if the CX-9, with the towing prep package, is pre-wired for a trailer brake controller? Per the owners manual, the CX-9 can only tow 1000 lbs with an unbraked trailer. 2000 lbs with a braked trailer but without tow prep package, and 3500 lbs with a braked trailer and tow prep package. Again, per Mazda's method of rating, the amount that can be towed drops as vehicle load goes up.

https://www.mymazda.com/MusaWeb/pdf/...013_CX9_OM.pdf

The 2014 Forester on the other hand can still tow the full 1500 lbs with a braked trailer even with the vehicle loaded to allowable limits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
It is interesting that SOA labeled it that way. I have always seen the GCWR (gross combined weight rating) listed. The CX-9 can do GCWR of 8337 lbs with a max GVWR of 5997 with a not to exceed occupants and cargo weight of 850 lbs. Most others are is much the same: max combined rating, vehicle weight, you figure out the rest. Also note that there are different lists for boats and trailers, Mazda lists it as you calculating the frontal area of the trailer for derating. Other just say boat or trailer.

I could not find the vehicle weight or a GVWR (fully loaded weight) for the '14 Forester in the , general, specifications or driving tips documents????

I would say it is a shame that SOA will only list the tow rating for the Forester as if it were completely loaded to GVWR as the allowable max at all times.

Peace,

Greg

How did that go from a CX-5(which competes with the Forester) to a CX-9 V-6(that does not)?
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:35 PM   #2475
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I took the example(s) as the difference in documentation and numbers between manufacturers. I don't think there was a comparison to the CX-9. It is just that the CX-9 has better example of de-ratting.

And maybe that is the point. SOA does not expect anyone to really tow anything with the forester. I would say that is a shame.

Peace,

Greg
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