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Old 10-03-2012, 03:53 PM   #1
ByeBye4g63t
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Default Wingz Performance

Here it goes guys. I'm going to try and keep this as short as possible, because lately every other time I make a post, it says "message must contain more than xx characters", even after typing a 4 paragraph page. VERY FRUSTURATING.

I brought my car to Phuong originally for a stage 2 tune. Car ran good. No problems. Fast forward to 5/12, I had Phuong install the following: 1000cc injectors, Walboro 255 fuel pump, grimmspeed 3 port, 3 gauges (brand new in box) and an external wastegate, as well as a retune on E85. He had the car for roughly a week and a half. I got the car back, and immediatly noticed that when the throttle was blipped, it would make a high pitched squeal. The PS lines were routed AROUND the coolant reservoir and not under, causing this. The first chance I got on the drive home, I mashed on it. The car felt slower. I call Phuong and explain it's only hitting roughly 10psi. Turn out the TMIC couple was loose. By loose, I mean the clamps were barely tight, I have no Idea how they didn't fall off while he was tuning it. So all is good right? Wrong. The EBCS was literally dangling in my enginebay, doing nothing. It was not used because he for some reason couldn't figure out why it wasn't doing anything. The EWG was plumbed wrong (Robert at FAT made me aware of this, and he lauged saying that he tuned it at 23psi because the way he had it plumbed, the turbo was literally creating as much boost as it could produce).

Did I mention that only 2 of my gauges were hooked up (75 dollars PER GAUGE to install)? He told me that he needed a "sandwhich plate" to install the oil pressure, even though everything was included when I dropped it off. The same night I got it back (Friday night), the car started throwing a lean code on cyl. 3. I had planned to go to speedworld the following day, and he was aware of this. He told me to pull the negative cable, and if it returns, bring it back to him. It did not return and he assured me that there should be no more future problems, and it was just a freak occurence. He said as long as the afr's were reading 12 or richer, I should have nothing to worry about. Then I had the hiatus with stupid evap codes, blah blah. I went to the track, and on 23psi on E85, it ran a 13.1 at 102. Coincidentally, I trapped the exact same on my pump gas tune, with a WORSE DA. I was really bummed. So I bring the car back to him YET AGAIN, and this time I dropped the car off with a new coil for cyl. 3, because he believed it would remedy the problem. It did. I also had him do a compression and leakdown test at the same time, and what do you know? All cylinders were low, #3 being the worst. Wonder why? Fast forward to me bringing the car to FAT, and they wanted to know who the hell installed the wastegate, and who the hell tuned it. Travis told me the maf scaling was WAY off (car would randomly jerk around and sputter) and that this tune was in no way safe for a car driven in the 110 degree heat. They kept the hood down on the dyno and let it sit for 30 seconds and did a pull. 2 counts of knock. Even after putting fans on the intercooler, Travis informed me that it would randomly knock because the boost was just too high for the heat. Oh yeah, the car put down 230awhp on 23psi on E85. WOW. When I asked Travis if I thought the tune had anything to do with the blown ringlands, he orginally said no. After I told him about my experience with the cyl 3 knock, he said yes, and he couldn't believe that phuong let my car leave his hands in the condition it was in. Oh, I almost forgot the most pathetic part of all of this. After bringing the car back for the 2nd time to get the evap codes figured out, Phuong calls me the following day saying I can come pick the car up. I get out there excited because my car is going to run correctly. When I get there, he says "Well James, I got the evap codes figured out, but theres something else. For some reason, when I take it past 5500rpm, it starts to knock. So as long as you don't take it past 5500rpm, it should be fine". YOU COULDN'T HAVE TOLD ME THIS BEFORE I DROVE 60 MILES ONE WAY TO PICK THE CAR UP!!!!????? He goes on to tell me that I can bring the car back to install a new coil pack to see if that remedies the issue. I did, and the coilpack fixed it. Oh joy . 4 tanks of E85 later, my car is running how it should have in the first place (well, besides the fact that the motor is now toast )

All I can say is Phuong left a REALLY bad taste in my mouth. I drove out to his house a total of 5 TIMES, and never heard a "sorry for the inconvience" or anything of the like. He never even mentioned to me that opensouce allows you to force ready the stupid evap codes and the like, so I'll never have to worry about the codes again (thanks Travis). I paid 1800 dollars for everything, and after it was all said and done, I was left with an incorrectly installed Power Steering line, loose connections, an EBCS that I was charged 50 dollars to install that was literally a paperweight under the hood, 1 gauge that wasn't hooked up, and most importantly a low compression motor. Did I mention that the gauge pod was dangling there when I picked it up? I'm not joking, I backed out of his driveway (because he doesn't own a shop by the way, you literally drop your car off at his house when he does the work ) and the gauge pod almost fell off of the dash.

So people, please BEWARE of Phuong at wingz performance. I waited so long to make this thread because of the reason I mention at the beginning of the post. Also, please note that NONE of the above is an exageration (sp?) at all, it is the complete 100% truth, and Phuong cannot deny this. Oh and Phuong, please if you're reading this, don't waste your time replying to this post. I'm sure there are things in this post that you disagree with, but I have pictures of the incorrect work, documentation of everything, as well as text messages that I could post if need be to prove everything that i've just said. I've left out some things soely based on the fact that I'm tired of typing at this point, and I'm sure if anyone has made it this far, they're tired of reading. And one last thing. I had a member on here PM me regarding Phuong, saying he had similar experiences with Evap codes and the like, also saying the he had to bring his car back multiple times as well. Not surprising, that member ALSO had a blown motor after usings Phuongs "tuning" services. Phuong, do everyone a favor, and stick to tuning evos. Let Forced Air Technologies handle the Subaru's, because they know what they're doing and have a legitamite shop, not a garage with a damn crasftsmen toolset.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:04 PM   #2
ByeBye4g63t
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Oh and for the record, Fat fixed everything for free, and even threw it on the dyno and adjusted the boost down so it wouldn't damage my already damaged motor anymore. I ended up having them install a built bottom end, and I was finally left with a great running car. Put down 335AWHP and 375AWTQ on a mustang dyno in the 100 degree heat, on 20 psi (because they can now adjust the boost now that the wastegate is installed and the EBCS is functioning). Also, I DID have to bring the car back for them to road tune it because the driveability wasn't all that great, and travis apologized multiple times and he even went as far as putting it back on the dyno to make sure I wasn't loosing power. It put down another 10whp, and 5tq with boost coming on 100rpm earlier. I was not charged, even though he spent another HOUR road tuning it and dialing it in. THAT is customer service guys.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:46 PM   #3
03.dub.r.x
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wow sucks bro sorry to hear about that. i thought from my amateur experience Wingz did an ok job ill be coming over to FAT to make sure my setup isnt effed up either.. thanks and glad they were able to get you back up
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:06 PM   #4
wikedcobra312
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Sorry to hear your bad experience, but glad you were able to inform us.

I happily just dropped off my car to fat this morning and picking it up tomorrow. Reading your pleasureable experience at fat makes me really pleased and at ease that i left my car at a great place
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:45 PM   #5
Momosaurus WRX
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Phuong has been building and tuning cars in Phoenix for a few years now, I hadn't heard of any bad news about him until now. I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with him. I'm glad that you had a good experience with FAT tho.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:53 PM   #6
ByeBye4g63t
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momosaurus WRX View Post
Phuong has been building and tuning cars in Phoenix for a few years now, I hadn't heard of any bad news about him until now. I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with him. I'm glad that you had a good experience with FAT tho.

Thank you. Also, I find it funny that you say that. Since I've posted this thread, I've had THREE people PM me, (that's 4 total) and two out of the four resulted in blown motors. I will not mention their names out of respect because they asked me not to, but that just goes to show how many people just blow it off or don't even feel likes it's worth the energy to talk about. Very disheartening to say the least....
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:48 PM   #7
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First off sorry about your awful experience, I can't imagine how frustrating something like this Is.

I've had Several subarus, all of which have remained relatively stock short of an AP stage one tune. I'm finally at a point where I've got the backup funds for a just in case scenario to do something fun and interesting to my car and all I see and hear from people are terrible reviews of local shops. So here i sit with a tbe, injectors, ap, fuel pump, sways, and various bushings and other relatively minimal items, yet I'm still second guessing myself on where, when, or whether to get them installed.

I've had several shops and people recommended to me, but several of them have had reviews such add these, or the individual recommended by people doesn't have time and/or doesn't want do do/deal with it.

Are the local shops really this careless And nonchalant about their workmanship And customers, or is this just some strange Coincidence.

Sorry if this hijacks your thread in any way, and for any grammatical errors..
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:08 AM   #8
ByeBye4g63t
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teehsee View Post
First off sorry about your awful experience, I can't imagine how frustrating something like this Is.

I've had Several subarus, all of which have remained relatively stock short of an AP stage one tune. I'm finally at a point where I've got the backup funds for a just in case scenario to do something fun and interesting to my car and all I see and hear from people are terrible reviews of local shops. So here i sit with a tbe, injectors, ap, fuel pump, sways, and various bushings and other relatively minimal items, yet I'm still second guessing myself on where, when, or whether to get them installed.

I've had several shops and people recommended to me, but several of them have had reviews such add these, or the individual recommended by people doesn't have time and/or doesn't want do do/deal with it.

Are the local shops really this careless And nonchalant about their workmanship And customers, or is this just some strange Coincidence.

Sorry if this hijacks your thread in any way, and for any grammatical errors..
Not at all my friend. Here's my advice;
1. Have at least 10k in the bank. Because that's what I had at the beginning, may of this year, and now I have, well: nothing. I don't mean that literally as I do have backup funds, as well as assets (my dirtbike, another car, guitars etc.) that I could sell, but don't ever let a car put you in that position, at least not if you can help it. Oh and if you think you have an idea of what it's going to cost, double it. I'm serious; this rule holds true 95% of the time.

2. Call Forced Air Technologies, talk to Taylor who is the manager and the person you will be talking to on the phone, and tell him you would like to take a look around the shop. They would be more than happy to show you around and discuss prices. They have the best customer service anyone could ask for. Taylor told me that if I have ANY problems at all with my car, or anything that raises concern, that I shouldn't hesitate to contact them. They DO NOT charge me at all for checkups on my car, in fact I just picked up the car today because they were replacing a rad hose and a rad cap (I was under the assumption my headgasket was blown, but that's another story) and they didn't charge me for the above. Not to mention, they fixed my leaking a/c, recharged the system, and diagnosed my not working gauges for 60 dollars.

3. Understand that just like money, the more Horsepower you have, the more you will want. FYI, taylor told me they have a special on synergy 20g's, 825 for one brand new and they have ONE left.

4. Sell the accesport, scrape up another few hundred bucks, buy their last 20g and have Travis tune with opensource. Thank me later. The guy knows his stuff, I could give a crap less what peoples experience with Snail Performance were.

5. Last but not least, realize you can't make everyone happy. Shops operate on making money, not giving out handouts. Often times, the customers they deal with are very young (most people/customers that I chatted with were under 25) aka, they don't have alot of coin. So when they give up their hard earned money and feel as if they weren't treated right, even if they were, you're only going to hear about what they DIDN'T do to help them, and not what they DID do. I didn't understand this until I worked at a job that put great importance on customer service, and I soon came to the conclusion that most people are damned idiots, and they want stuff for free, for half price, or for a large discount because they've been 'personally inconvinienced'.

Good luck, modding a car, especially if daily driven, is a very stupid idea and will always hurt reliability. Keep that in mind. Heck, I'm planning on selling my eclipse gsx for an integra or civic, I'm tired of putting the miles on my precious little subaru.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:30 AM   #9
Momosaurus WRX
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Every shop blows up a motor or two or four at some point or another haha. Tuning increases those chances. I will fix mechanical problems all day every day, but I probably won't ever tune cars because of that lol.

It is unfortunate to hear that somebody who has had such a good reputation has left a sour taste in the mouth of somebody in the community, and didn't try to fix it. I hope that Phuong takes this into account for future business.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:16 AM   #10
brendan04wrx
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glad to hear it's not ur head gasket! once u get ur car ready to have some fun bring it to oreillys so I can check it out and lets go to the track now that's its cooling down
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:29 PM   #11
wikedcobra312
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Just picked up my car from fat, amazing job and service. Big kudos to taylor and the crew, next up is suspension/brakes, customer for life

Last edited by wikedcobra312; 10-04-2012 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:57 PM   #12
dan az
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didnt read the whole thing, but I have always been an advocate of tuning it yourself, I used to tune other peoples cars but got sick of it, the last car I tuned was a essentially stock 02 wrx, he wanted 300hp, i told him its never going to happen, so I did what I could and got a bit more out of it, (it had alot of other issues that need sorting before I went further with it) he later took it to wingz and they slapped a manual boost controller on it to get around the screwed up hoses and boost control solenoid, I just laughed.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:47 AM   #13
subykid
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I didnt realize how much of a back story there was with your car James. Im glad we could get you taken care of and at the right price for you. I will do my best to continue the good stories coming from our shop.

WikedCobra enjoy that fresh tune and let me know on those other pieces we discussed.

-Taylor
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:32 PM   #14
ktmrider
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Thanks for the info and words of wisdom!

You made some very strong points, one being "Stick to what you know" and "Double your slush funds".

Phuong has a good rep in the 4G63 realm, both EVO and DSM. Subaru ECU and boxer engines are a whole different world. Having played with both platforms over the years, including some GM OBD2 products, I can honestly say the more I learn the less I find I actually know. Cameron of camtuning fame played for YEARS on the EJ platform before performing his magic with the general public. He has branched out to some EBO stuff but again not before putting some serious R&D into it.

Cost is always the elephant in the room. DSM fans know this all too well. It's starting to leak into the EJ world as the bugeye WRX hits 10 years old. Each and every swinging male member pays squat for the car but expects "400whp DD with nothing more than a Home Depot built MBC". Yeah they do put out 400whp for a few milliseconds before turning their engine into swiss cheese. And losing their job cuz the car was a DD. And bitching about how they were screwed over. Not that the OP was skimping on funds, $1800 is big coin for what was delivered.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:52 PM   #15
cnlor
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I feel your pain. I had Phoung tune my car. But lets fast forward, my cars at his place waiting for my ecu to come back unbricked from tactrix. He tunes it for me the following week. I come and pick it up. Everything ran great (stage 4 20G, 1000cc, supporting mods), I drive the car back home (200 miles). My car dies on the freeway cruising, thank goodness it was 5 miles away from my town. I found out my motor was done for. Sadly I didnt blame him. Honestly I think he had a lot to do with my motor going down on me. I later had the car built with forged internals and a new long block with additional parts running me ($8000). I had him tune the car again, and let me tell you. The car ran fine until I was 100 miles out then a rich code came up. Eversince then I did not contact him. I got a AP and contacted Clark. Gave me a etune and it runs much more smooth. Though its having some tuning issue (probably from previous tune) its running alot better. My suggestion, Phoung is a great tuner, but bring your subaru to a subaru tuner who knows the ins and outs of the car. Enough said, I hope no one brings him any subarus.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:12 AM   #16
wikedcobra312
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Taylor loving the car, awesome numbers 298whp/261wtq. Even better gas mileage, definately going to try n get the suspension and brakes squared away this month, thanks fat crew, customer for life
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:35 AM   #17
ByeBye4g63t
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subykid View Post
I didnt realize how much of a back story there was with your car James. Im glad we could get you taken care of and at the right price for you. I will do my best to continue the good stories coming from our shop.

WikedCobra enjoy that fresh tune and let me know on those other pieces we discussed.

-Taylor
Didn't realize you were on here bro. Thanks again . I don't know if you got the message today but I think overfilling the oil in the car caused the smoke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikedcobra312 View Post
Taylor loving the car, awesome numbers 298whp/261wtq. Even better gas mileage, definately going to try n get the suspension and brakes squared away this month, thanks fat crew, customer for life
That makes 2 of us.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeBye4g63t View Post
Didn't realize you were on here bro. Thanks again . I don't know if you got the message today but I think overfilling the oil in the car caused the smoke.



That makes 2 of us.
Yea i dont come on here much. Your message wasnt in my voicemails from the weekend but you know if anything comes up just let me know and we will get it taken care of.
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:17 AM   #19
Shiro_Ki
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i've been trying to tell people in person that Phoung is good with evos and dsms but NOT with subarus.

i was one of the first he tuned here in AZ when he moved here in 2007. it seems not much has changed with him tuning subarus.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:26 PM   #20
04reddragon
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o man what a let down i had wingz tune my car about 2 yrs ago to a stage 2 even hooked up on some installs to prep my car, the tune itself wasnt great as to me from stock to stge 2 didnt feel any different at all but just the thought that my car is being tuned made me think it was quick. After that day a few months later my car in 4th gear pushing the car was jerky and i called phoung to see what happened and just told me its a common thing and to bring my car to his house and see the data and fixed it for free. Long story short he is a great man and has alot of knowledge and very helpful but my tune i felt wasnt all that great and for the last 2 yrs been thinking what if i went some where else to see if i had gotten more power. But overall great guy. Just wish my car felt stronger red 04 rex btw
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:13 AM   #21
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lol phuong. Im surprised that guy is even a name around the forums now a days. So many horror stories are told at every meet i've ever gone to. For as much as he charges id rather pay the extra money and goto to an actual reputable shop. Most places are warrantied and you can always report bad work to the BBB.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:33 PM   #22
04reddragon
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^^^^^^ true that been talking to taylor on azawd and may have my rex tuned by him on my vf39 and see how that goes.
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Old 10-23-2012, 12:49 PM   #23
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sad to here about this. When I had my STi, it was tuned by Clark Turner. Now that I have my Evo, has been tuned by Phuong and its been amazing. Different platform, choose base on their background is all I can say. He is a stand up guy, great customer service, sorry this happened to you though.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:29 PM   #24
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Man, this is the first time I have read a negative review about this Phoung fella. Good thing I decided to go to FAT for my dyno tune. 304whp 317tq with short ram, down pipe, and exhaust on my 07. Sorry to hear about the bad experiences :/
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Old 10-24-2012, 02:13 PM   #25
04reddragon
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yea great guy and great mind to help and goes the extra to help out as much as he can.
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