Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday September 16, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > General Community

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-04-2012, 10:57 AM   #1
macworld
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 288139
Join Date: Jul 2011
Default Differences in turbos

I am not sure if this is the right spot for this question but here it goes. One of my coworkers has ordered a 13 Focus ST. He is talking about how much better it is then my stage 1 2011 wrx for performance. I have read that the ST turbo is pretty maxed out from the factory due to its size. Can anybody shed light on that subject? I am getting tired of hearing it already. Thanks for any helpful input.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
macworld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 11:06 AM   #2
SpamBot
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 287534
Join Date: Jul 2011
Default

Why not just tell your coworker that you really don't care, and he should go to the break room for a nice, steaming hot cup of ****?

(Wow, it won't let me Show The Featured Underlined text.)
SpamBot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 11:10 AM   #3
MaddMax
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9264
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City
Vehicle:
2012 WRX 5dr
Ice Silver

Default

Seeing that Steeda managed a best of a 14.4@97mph with a 2.20 60 foot out of a stock one and with a decent driver behind the wheel, I don't your friend has much to brag about when comparing it to your WRX.

Stock 09+ WRXs typically do 13.4-13.6@101-102mph and there's even been one guy that did a 12.9@104mph is his bonestock GR WRX under stellar density altitude conditions. Even with a soft launch (2.2 60 foot vs the hard launch 1.7-1.8 60 foot), the WRX should still walk past the ST seeing that the WRX typically posts a 3 to 4mph faster trapspeed. Trapspeed is the indicator of available HP to the wheels. The WRX is clearly making more it and/or is a bit lighter (which I believe it is). Soft launch the WRX and it's still going 101-102mph.

Your Stage 1 car should be able to post 104mph traps and have the potential to go low low 13s if you're willing to launch it hard.
MaddMax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 11:11 AM   #4
macworld
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 288139
Join Date: Jul 2011
Default

I do. We are a tight knit team. Crap talking is continuous. It is what it is. Just looking for ammo to fire back with.
macworld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 11:40 AM   #5
blehhh
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 316517
Join Date: Apr 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Portland, ME
Vehicle:
2012 WRB WRX Hatch
TP Stage III & ELH

Default

It's FWD, has less power than a stock WRX, and is a full second and a half slower to 60 than a stock WRX. Let him talk trash, it's bad enough he just bought a Focus. The place to argue is on the track, and just the rex do the talking...

http://www.insideline.com/ford/focus...rack-test.html

Last edited by blehhh; 10-04-2012 at 11:46 AM.
blehhh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 11:43 AM   #6
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

kick him in the crotch fer bein st00pid

______________________


and i think Fraud is gonna hafta step up its game with the st if it is only runnin a 14.4...that **** aint gonna cut it with so many bone stock cars runnin not jus a lil fast4r than that for the same $$,$$$ or less
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 12:17 PM   #7
Gixhost
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 180111
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Land of Ham, MD
Vehicle:
* 2004.114.3 STi
Aspen White

Default

I've ridden in the Focus ST. I will just say it is a very impressive machine...the turbo spools nearly instantaneously. The rear end was designed to float around turns and follow the front wheels and it does exactly that...IMO it has to be one of the best handling, well put together FWD vehicles ever built. Ford did an excellent job on the Focus ST and its something that I believe is long overdue for an American manufacturer. Ford, Chrysler and GM have all made previous attempts but I think the Cobalt SS was previously the best, although in a very crude vehicle. I am hoping GM makes a second attempt with the Cruze.

On the other spectrum of things...my mind won't allow me to compare FWD vehicles directly to AWD and RWD vehicles. There are just so many advantages and disadvantages to FWD that I hate to make direct comparisons and prefer to just give the FWD vehicles that keep up with AWD and RWD vehicles the credit they deserve. I would definitely not say that the ST is better than a WRX...but it wouldn't surprise me if out of the box it handles better...I couldn't stop grinning in the ST...it just took whatever you threw at it...

At the end of the day the WRX has built a reputation for a reason...and a FWD vehicle isn't knocking it off its pedestal any time soon. There have been many high powered FWD vehicles positioned to chip away at WRX sales...but those who know the benefits of the WRX and its weaknesses for the most part aren't going to step down to a FWD vehicle...their upgrading to more expensive performance vehicles that are also AWD or RWD. Don't worry about your coworker, enjoy your car.

Last edited by Gixhost; 10-04-2012 at 12:23 PM.
Gixhost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 04:03 PM   #8
MaddMax
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9264
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City
Vehicle:
2012 WRX 5dr
Ice Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blehhh View Post
Wow! A 15.0@93mph? Even slower than the Steeda's stock Focus ST. My bonestock 96 Maxima SE 5MT did 15.1@94mph at the strip and it only made 175whp/190wtq at the time.

As with most direct injection turbo motors, this Focus ST appears to suffer from a bad case of heat soak induced reduced power.
MaddMax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 08:05 PM   #9
lakerfan32
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 318002
Join Date: Apr 2012
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Burbank, Ca
Vehicle:
2012 WRX Sedan
Satin White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMax View Post
Wow! A 15.0@93mph? Even slower than the Steeda's stock Focus ST. My bonestock 96 Maxima SE 5MT did 15.1@94mph at the strip and it only made 175whp/190wtq at the time.

As with most direct injection turbo motors, this Focus ST appears to suffer from a bad case of heat soak induced reduced power.
$30,000 and can't break 15 on a quarter mile
lakerfan32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 09:05 PM   #10
HinshawWRX
Medium Frank
Moderator
 
Member#: 140114
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Common Sense, VA
Vehicle:
2014 Porsche
GT3 (Currently on Fire)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by macworld View Post
I do. We are a tight knit team. Crap talking is continuous. It is what it is. Just looking for ammo to fire back with.
Then pay his gas to goto a drag strip and shut him up.
HinshawWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 09:11 PM   #11
zackg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 248581
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:
2012 STI
WRB

Default

well i love both the WRX and ST. If you could launch the ST with a 60' like the WRX, you're looking at 13.6-13.8's. But for the most part, cant. I know they can do better than 95mph in the quarter as well. Numbers just came back for a tuned ST (no mods), 254hp/323tq. Those are pretty decent numbers from a 2.0 liter.

But, they are 2 different cars. I would bet the focus would win from a roll as you'd expect the WRX to win from a dead stop. It's the newest "best" option for a fwd enthusiast car.

And Lakerfan32, the base costs $25k (oh and they have a recaro option too!).
zackg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2012, 10:38 PM   #12
Back Road Runner
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 60082
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:
2004 Forester STI
Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gixhost View Post
I've ridden in the Focus ST. I will just say it is a very impressive machine...the turbo spools nearly instantaneously. The rear end was designed to float around turns and follow the front wheels and it does exactly that...IMO it has to be one of the best handling, well put together FWD vehicles ever built. Mazda did an excellent job on the Focus ST and its something that I believe is long overdue for an American manufacturer. Ford, Chrysler and GM have all made previous attempts but I think the Cobalt SS was previously the best, although in a very crude vehicle. I am hoping GM makes a second attempt with the Cruze.
Fixed.

You're welcome.

Don't pat Ford on the back for what Mazda built. The Focus is the Mazda3. The Fusion is the Mazda6. They're just reskinned and retuned to Ford's liking. The old ST was junk compared to the Mazda3, messed up the suspension imo. I'm glad they fixed it up some, and the turbo option means they're using some MazdaSpeed bits which is nice to see under the Ford brand if they're going to share hardware anyways.

I will give Ford props for the hybrids though. It's something Mazda never did with their cars, so seeing the Fusion Hybrid was very nice to see. I don't know if them swapping out the Mazda engine to do it was a good move, but I haven't seen much for complaints on Fords engine choice. Frankly, Ford's been doing some nice things with their cars as of recent. I'm not sure if I'd opt for a Focus ST over a MazdaSpeed3 though. The Mazda sticks with the slightly larger displacement and slightly more powerful 2.3L (same as used in the Mazda6/Fusion) versus the 2.0L (Protege/Focus). I like displacement, so... I've also driven both NA versions in both the Mazda and Ford sheet metal. They're both good, but so is displacement. Unfortunately I've driven neither in the turbo package.

I wouldn't get into a pissing match about cars. The Focus ST is still a 2.0L engine still capable of 400whp with the right turbo. The newer WRX is 2.5L, so you have a torque and displacement advantage, but on the same turbo, you're still making the same power. Car weight is nearly the same, so acceleration is a matter of traction. Top speed is aerodynamics is king, and the Focus has a better coefficient of drag. It will actually require about 13% less energy to push it through the air than your WRX.
Back Road Runner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 01:21 AM   #13
rexblake
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 178426
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: FoCo
Vehicle:
2010 Audi S4
Black

Default

I have a feeling the ST might win around a specific road coarse where handling is key. Straight line it appears the WRX has the higher speeds.
rexblake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 10:05 AM   #14
Ernest
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 45076
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Rockland County, NY
Vehicle:
2004 Stg2 Wagon 4eat
Silver

Default

A bunch of armchair racers we got here. Tell him to put his money where his mouth is and go race you at the track.

In my experience, guys who talk about their car being able to beat your car generally suffer from smalldicktitis.
Ernest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 10:41 AM   #15
bigmaninjapan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 299064
Join Date: Oct 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Vehicle:
2008 WRX Sedan (OBP)
2005 Forester 2.5XS

Default

Hi, I've logged a few thousand miles in a '13 Focus ST. Is it quicker in a straight line than a WRX? From a roll, probably (hold on if you are shifting at redline!). From stopped, unlikely (AWD baby!). Would it kick the crap out of a WRX on a twisty road course? My WRX is an 08 (stock), so yes, yes it would.

Your coworker is getting much nicer seats (much nicer interior all around) and a lot less squeak and rattle. He's also getting better fuel economy on cheaper fuel and shift linkage that feels much smoother than the WRX.
bigmaninjapan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 10:58 AM   #16
Lindyn11
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 326221
Join Date: Jul 2012
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Fort Smith, Arkansas
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
WRBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfan32

$30,000 and can't break 15 on a quarter mile
With him driving.

Last edited by Lindyn11; 10-05-2012 at 11:04 AM.
Lindyn11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 11:17 AM   #17
bigmaninjapan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 299064
Join Date: Oct 2011
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Vehicle:
2008 WRX Sedan (OBP)
2005 Forester 2.5XS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
Fixed.

You're welcome.

Don't pat Ford on the back for what Mazda built. The Focus is the Mazda3. The Fusion is the Mazda6. They're just reskinned and retuned to Ford's liking. The old ST was junk compared to the Mazda3, messed up the suspension imo. I'm glad they fixed it up some, and the turbo option means they're using some MazdaSpeed bits which is nice to see under the Ford brand if they're going to share hardware anyways.
The Mazdaspeed3 Launched in 2007 with a 2.3L inline 4 cylinder engine (it still uses a variant of that 2.3L today). The MKII Focus ST launched in 2005 with a 2.5L inline 5 cylinder engine. So this car that Mazda built for Ford launched 2 years before they launched their own variant with a different motor and different clutch? Really? The Focus ST has historically shared much more with the Volvo C30 (T5 variant) than the Mazdaspeed3.

The Focus ST has been a European performance model designed and built in Europe since its inception. The 2013 is the next evolution of that same product. The only difference with the 2013 is that Ford decided to build the same car everywhere (what a concept!) so those of us in North America get access to the same car that's been in Europe for 7 years now (we still can't get the wagon variant though... sigh).

There's this search engine, its called google, maybe you've heard of it? If you'd bother to search you'd see this information is quite widely available.
bigmaninjapan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 11:28 AM   #18
Decipher
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 262760
Join Date: Nov 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Lake in the Hills, ILLnoise
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Hatch Limtd
Satin White Pearl

Default

^Thanks! You saved me a ton of typing.

OP...I think Ford gets the nod for build quality, options, and electronics. That's about it. If we're talking pure performance, which is your idiot coworker's argument, then he loses all day every day. It sounds like he has an inferiority complex and is trying to justify his inferior purchase. Don't get me wrong...the ST is a cool car for what it is and what it compares to. Point being this...I'm not challenging my friend with a GT-R when I own a WRX. They're in different classes. I'm just going to look like an ass. So does your coworker.
Decipher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 12:28 PM   #19
zackg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 248581
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh
Vehicle:
2012 STI
WRB

Default

ST has no chance in the quarter against a WRX. I'm pretty sure your coworkers knows this and is just playing the game. The largest downside to the ST is the small k03 turbo.
zackg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 02:23 PM   #20
MaddMax
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 9264
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Kansas City
Vehicle:
2012 WRX 5dr
Ice Silver

Default

I do agree that the Focus ST will be/is a stellar handling machine and is probably better than the 11+ WRX in certain aspects. Luckily for us, the suspension on the WRX is an easy fix. All that's really needed is firmer shocks and a slightly larger sway bar. Wider tires would certainly help, but it's completely necessary. Contrary to belief, the 11+ WRX is a pretty dang good handling car. People just assume it doesn't stick very feel because it does have a decent amount of initial roll. However, it settles quite well after the initial lean.
MaddMax is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.