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Old 10-08-2012, 10:49 AM   #1
claythrow
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Default Separating engine and Tranny

Hi All,

First of all, I've read a few tutorials and other posts but nothing has helped me so far.

I have checked about 50 times to make sure the motor is not tied up on anything.

I've jacked up engine and trans to every combination imaginable it seems and the most I can achieve is about 1.5" of separation. It shouldn't be this hard, I'm about to herniate myself here. I'm "Heman-ning" it to death.

The only thing that was fuzzy was the clutch fork, first of all how do you move it, as when I've done like the tutorials it just looks the same. But would I be able to achieve 1.5" of separation if that was the problem?

Am I supposed to unbolt the tranny to make it easier as the tutorials I read didn't say anything about that…only jacking it up. But those infernal bottom bolts are about 2.5" long and I'm no where near clearing them.

And yes, motor mounts are clear, nothing is obstructing the motor except sticking to the trans. Thanks for any ideas
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:57 AM   #2
spintheground
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What turbo are you running? If it's a TD05 the bellhousing may be obstructed by the turbo. If this is the case, remove the turbo.

Other than that, it takes some balls to get it off.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:10 AM   #3
JarHarms
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Are you are pulling the engine or the trans? Sounds like the engine is coming out and judging since it is in this section.
Clutch fork - remove the slave, take out the plug, pull out the pivot shaft, pull up on the slave end of the fork, you can feel the fork fingers come out of the release bearing tabs, fork will sort of flop around now. So right now can you move that fork around or is it wedged tight like it's caught?
Agree that turbine housing hang up can happen but it's usually pretty loose at that point. Are the side dowels completely out of the trans flange? I would suspect so at 1.5" of separation if it is even all around the mating surfaces.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:13 AM   #4
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Make sure you've removed the pin that the clutch fork rotates on.

You have to take out an allen plug on the drivers side of the trans, one the plug is off you have to thread in a bolt to the pin (The battery tie down) and pull it out using a pair of pliers.

Once the pin is out you have to remove the clutch fork from the throw out bearing, to do this pull up on the clutch fork. Google pictures of these parts if you aren't farmiliar with how they look and interact.

I had this same problem too, and I didn't take the clutch fork out. I pulled on the engine for hours and got so frustrated.

Make sure the clutch pin is out
Make sure the clutch fork is pulled out of the throw out bearing
Pull the engine picker away from the car so the force on the engine is "Pre-loaded" so the engine wants to pull away from the car


Don't be afraid to stand in the engine bay, grab the motor, and wiggle

-Dave
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:33 AM   #5
biodude
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this is pretty helpful

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1301065

if you haven't, you need to remove the clutch fork.





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Old 10-08-2012, 07:56 PM   #6
claythrow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biodude View Post
this is pretty helpful

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1301065

if you haven't, you need to remove the clutch fork.





I had thought of that but that allen nut is as frozen as I've ever seen a bolt in my life. Only one other time, in my wife's Corolla (I forget which bolt it was but somewhere on the knuckle I think) have I ever come across a bolt frozen like this. Actually this is more frozen as my wife's bolt I eventually broke free, this one, even after several applications of PBNB broke two socket wrenches and no joke a 24" breaker bar will not move it…and I'm no weakling. I could pull harder on the bar or add a pipe to lengthen it for more leverage but I have a strong feeling from all my past successes and failures with frozen bolts that the results would be bad.

I called a friend who knows his stuff and I haven't tried it yet but I'm hoping this is the answer, I think lavid2002 is talking about it in his post.

The tutorials I read, I could tell from the pictures were not from my year WRX, but I thought they would be similar enough. My friend said that year 04-07 WRX's have a pin in the starter's pit that has to be pulled and that the battery tie down is actually the correct size/thread. Once I pull that, then I can pull the fork up and the engine should release. I since looked that up and found many references to that exact trick, they just weren't in the ones I happened to look at. But the titles of the ones I read seemed perfect and I thought I had my bases covered. I'll post the results tomorrow, but hopefully this does the trick. Thank you so much for the help. I love Nasioc.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:11 PM   #7
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try gently heating the plug and area around the plug with a propane torch. tap the plug and around the plug several times with a hammer. it'll come out, heat works wonders for frozen bolts.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:14 PM   #8
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Good to see an update!

It sounds like your clutch pin access bolt is frozen.

This is not an "Optional" step for pulling an engine. You need to remove that plug, then remove the pin in order to pull the clutch fork out of the throw out bearing so you can pull the motor out. Try some PB blaster, try a breaker bar. If the breaker bar won't do it slide a pipe over the breaker bar and give 'er hell.

Again
-Remove the clutch pin access plug (The one that takes a socketed allen bit)
-Insert a bolt like the battery tie down
Now that the clutch fork has no pin to rotate around it can be lifted up.
By lifting the clutch fork up about a inch or two the two prongs of the "fork" come out of the throw out bearing (The part that pushes on the pressure plate on the clutch)
Now that this bearing isn't held in place by the clutch fork your throwout bearing, and engine (Since the two are connected) are free to slide off the transmission input shaft.

So I think we have cleared up everything yes?

Try some PB blaster on that nut, make sure you're turning it CCW and good luck

-Dave
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:16 PM   #9
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heat up the area around the nut, mine was a pain the first time as well, I think i had to use a pretty big breaker bar to get the leverage I needed to snap it free.

that clutch fork is engaged into the throw out bearing and it is most definitely holding things together.


haha, they typed faster than I
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rube23 View Post
try gently heating the plug and area around the plug with a propane torch. tap the plug and around the plug several times with a hammer. it'll come out, heat works wonders for frozen bolts.

There are clutch hydraulic lines, rubber parts, and many wires around here. I advise against heating this part. You shouldn't have to.

-Dave


Edit: Here's something else to think about, with that transmission lifted, your making your effective rotational area (Breaker bar workspace) less. Lower the engine a tad, lower the transmission, and then go after that nut. Since you have to pull it towards the front of the car to apply a counter clock wise moment around the fastener it shouldn't be any problem for you to lay your belly over the rad support, grab the breaker bar with both hands and really apply some force.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavid2002 View Post
There are clutch hydraulic lines, rubber parts, and many wires around here. I advise against heating this part. You shouldn't have to.

-Dave


Edit: Here's something else to think about, with that transmission lifted, your making your effective rotational area (Breaker bar workspace) less. Lower the engine a tad, lower the transmission, and then go after that nut. Since you have to pull it towards the front of the car to apply a counter clock wise moment around the fastener it shouldn't be any problem for you to lay your belly over the rad support, grab the breaker bar with both hands and really apply some force.
LOL dude no one is saying heat it up with a flame thrower. if you know how to work a propane torch this is no issue at all....look at the pic above, looks pretty clear to me.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rube23 View Post
LOL dude no one is saying heat it up with a flame thrower. if you know how to work a propane torch this is no issue at all....look at the pic above, looks pretty clear to me.

Lmao, even still if we are having problems removing a transmission plug who's going to say we're hefty with a propane torch?

Amirite??
Cost/Benefit IMO says just grab a breaker bar and take the nut off. No fire needed.

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Old 10-09-2012, 04:39 PM   #13
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^^^^^^^^This thing .... like most other subies...... should be at a shop of some sort with people who have knowledge in this field. Dude your gonna destroy this thing if you dont get that pin out, removing it shouldve been the first step in r&r.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rube23 View Post
LOL dude no one is saying heat it up with a flame thrower. if you know how to work a propane torch this is no issue at all....look at the pic above, looks pretty clear to me.

lmao. I can imagine an old WWII style flame thrower strapped to someones back while they aim the business end at the frozen bolt. Right before pulling the trigger the thought pops in their head, "This is so gonna work."
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:26 AM   #15
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would an impact wrench fit in that spot? Otherwise you're just going to have to give it hell.
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:28 PM   #16
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10mm hex 1/2" drive socket and a 1/2" breaker bar. Pull towards you.

If that doesnt break it loose, put your jack handle on the end of it.

And spray a liberal amount of PB blast or liquid wrench on it well before going the jack handle route!
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:56 PM   #17
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You don't have to pull the pin out. You can release the TOB from the pressure plate with a long flathead screwdriver or a pick though the clutch fork hole.

Put the engine back in so it is up against the trans case. Stick the screwdriver between the ring that holds the TOB and the pressure plate and move the clutch fork toward the front to pull out the TOB. It's kind of tricky and might take you awhile to get out, but if you can't remove the pin you don't have any other choice.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal View Post
You don't have to pull the pin out. You can release the TOB from the pressure plate with a long flathead screwdriver or a pick though the clutch fork hole.

Put the engine back in so it is up against the trans case. Stick the screwdriver between the ring that holds the TOB and the pressure plate and move the clutch fork toward the front to pull out the TOB. It's kind of tricky and might take you awhile to get out, but if you can't remove the pin you don't have any other choice.
That will not work. The snap ring is inside the pressure plate.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aboothman View Post
10mm hex 1/2" drive socket and a 1/2" breaker bar. Pull towards you.

If that doesnt break it loose, put your jack handle on the end of it.

And spray a liberal amount of PB blast or liquid wrench on it well before going the jack handle route!
^^^THIS^^^ Leverage and PB blaster.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69subaru360 View Post
That will not work. The snap ring is inside the pressure plate.
I've done that method plenty of times on my STi when I am too lazt to pull the pin.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:19 PM   #21
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How can you get at the snap ring to release it? It's on the inside of the pressure plate which is bolted to the flywheel. There is no access to it.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69subaru360
How can you get at the snap ring to release it? It's on the inside of the pressure plate which is bolted to the flywheel. There is no access to it.
Use screwdriver/pry bar between pressure plate and release bearing. If you pry there clip will let release bearing pop out. This is also how evo guys do it
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:07 PM   #23
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Huh, I'm surprised that works. I would have though it would be impossible considering that clip holds up to the force of the fork pulling the pressure plate out. Oh well whatever works.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:34 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 69subaru360 View Post
Huh, I'm surprised that works. I would have though it would be impossible considering that clip holds up to the force of the fork pulling the pressure plate out. Oh well whatever works.
Per subaru FSM they even tell you to pry on it to release it and thats how it was even taught in school. I personally dont do it this way though, i remove clip, but prying is correct way.

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Old 10-10-2012, 07:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Tanker

^^^THIS^^^ Leverage and PB blaster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aboothman
10mm hex 1/2" drive socket and a 1/2" breaker bar. Pull towards you.

If that doesnt break it loose, put your jack handle on the end of it.

And spray a liberal amount of PB blast or liquid wrench on it well before going the jack handle route!
An a cheater bar. Lol and go slow
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