Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday January 31, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-10-2012, 05:51 PM   #76
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceywilly View Post
I drove a Focus ST at a driving event that was going around a few months ago. It doesn't belong in this list. If you absolutely must have a hatchback, and don't care about AWD, I suppose you could do a lot worse than the ST, but it didn't strike me as being a great handling car like these reviews make it out to be. Great brakes, decent acceleration, and it did have good turn in, but the suspension, shifting, and steering were really soft and I felt like I was sitting 8 feet off the ground. Some of these reviews really have me scratching my head. Middle of the road performance, middle of the road handling, middle of the road looks... I don't understand where the hype is coming from.
this goes against most of the other reviews ive seen

likely that particular car

and just like the wrx when it got here....it was a marshmallow soft POS until it was modded....and it needed modded a LOT to make it worth a ****

seems the ST may need a bit of lovin from the aftermarket to make it really shine is all.....put a real lsd in it and do a bit of simple weight reduction and good to go
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 06:08 PM   #77
Lminette
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138923
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Anaheim
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS Coupe
Satin Green Metallic

Default

Yeah but it's still Fail Wheel Drive and mod for mod the WRX will be the better choice when pushed to the limit. I say this cause a good friend of mine has a GTI and while it is great up to 8/10's when pushed past that the failures of a FWD chassis start to show. Thus why he got rid of it and will never consider a FWD performance car ever again.
Lminette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 06:24 PM   #78
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Well I felt the same way about my MS3 beyond 8/10ths

But I would ask you the same question I ask myself. How often do you really drive past 8/10s on the street. If the car is stellar in 98% of the driving you do. Is that okay.

Just something to think about. As you get older you tend to buy a car more in line with the 98% and buy a dedicated car for that special 2%
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 06:51 PM   #79
Lminette
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138923
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Anaheim
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS Coupe
Satin Green Metallic

Default

I am older (32), however even if I'm not pushing a car past 8/10's it's still nice to know if I wanted I could. The ST is pretty good and will work for most people just not my cup of tea. Too much tech for not enough gain IMO. Like I continue to say, I'm glad it exists and kudos to Ford. More performance options are always better this one's just not for me.
Lminette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:33 PM   #80
neg_matnik
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132389
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF Bay Area
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Wagon SGM
2003 SV1000S, 2014 DL650

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
Yeah but it's still Fail Wheel Drive and mod for mod the WRX will be the better choice when pushed to the limit. I say this cause a good friend of mine has a GTI and while it is great up to 8/10's when pushed past that the failures of a FWD chassis start to show. Thus why he got rid of it and will never consider a FWD performance car ever again.
RenaultSport Megane R26R and RenaultSport Megane 265 Cup ? No?
I know I'd let go of my Subaru for one of these.
neg_matnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:40 PM   #81
Spenk
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7164
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Arizona Bay
Vehicle:
2000 Miata LS
Evo Orange Mica (1/644)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
Yeah but it's still Fail Wheel Drive and mod for mod the WRX will be the better choice when pushed to the limit. I say this cause a good friend of mine has a GTI and while it is great up to 8/10's when pushed past that the failures of a FWD chassis start to show. Thus why he got rid of it and will never consider a FWD performance car ever again.
Kinda like every nose-heavy AWD Subaru having terminal understeer, right?
Spenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 08:47 PM   #82
Lminette
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138923
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Anaheim
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS Coupe
Satin Green Metallic

Default

Subaru's don't have a front wheel drive chassis. Do the understeer as a result of the weight over the fron wheels yes however this is generally worse and more apparent in FWD vehicles where you are asking the front wheels to do all the work of putting the power down, stopping and steering. And we don't get the Renault's so that is a moot point.
Lminette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 09:07 PM   #83
neg_matnik
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132389
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF Bay Area
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Wagon SGM
2003 SV1000S, 2014 DL650

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
Subaru's don't have a front wheel drive chassis. Do the understeer as a result of the weight over the fron wheels yes however this is generally worse and more apparent in FWD vehicles where you are asking the front wheels to do all the work of putting the power down, stopping and steering. And we don't get the Renault's so that is a moot point.
Yeah, I was not really serious about the Renault's. I was just pointing out that a properly setup FWD chassis (like the Renault's) can perform very well even when it's being pushed hard on a road course / track.
neg_matnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 09:11 PM   #84
Cheveyboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34773
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Charlotte NC
Vehicle:
2013 WRX STi
SWP

Default

There was MUCH less understeer in my MS3 then both of my modded WRX's.

And a Subaru chassis is not too far away from 90's style FWD crap box. Just because your sending some torque out back doesn't make it a good layout. I hate to tell you guys, a WRX or STi is not the epitome of a great handling car. It gets by with brute force.
Cheveyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 09:12 PM   #85
Spenk
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7164
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Arizona Bay
Vehicle:
2000 Miata LS
Evo Orange Mica (1/644)

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
Subaru's don't have a front wheel drive chassis. Do the understeer as a result of the weight over the fron wheels yes however this is generally worse and more apparent in FWD vehicles where you are asking the front wheels to do all the work of putting the power down, stopping and steering. And we don't get the Renault's so that is a moot point.
Spare me your fanboyism.

Know what the opposite of understeer is? Oversteer.

Provided you know what you're doing, it's far easier to get a FWD car to rotate than an AWD car.
Spenk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 09:18 PM   #86
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Anchorage (...for now...)
Vehicle:
2013 BRZ Ltd 6MT CBS
SNOSLO

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheveyboy View Post
There was MUCH less understeer in my MS3 then both of my modded WRX's.

And a Subaru chassis is not too far away from 90's style FWD crap box. Just because your sending some torque out back doesn't make it a good layout. I hate to tell you guys, a WRX or STi is not the epitome of a great handling car. It gets by with brute force.
True, but harsh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spenk View Post
Spare me your fanboyism.

Know what the opposite of understeer is? Oversteer.

Provided you know what you're doing, it's far easier to get a FWD car to rotate than an AWD car.
Harsh, but true.
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2012, 09:21 PM   #87
Lminette
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138923
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Anaheim
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS Coupe
Satin Green Metallic

Default

It's not fanboyism it's my preference. If you prefer FWD then fine. I prefer all or rwd. Our opinions are different it's that simple. Subaru's aren't the only cars I've ever owned or driven. Hell I found the 90 Civic SI I drove for the better part of a year more fun to drive than the ST and I enjoy my wife's skyactiv 3 as well. It holds the corners just as well as my Subarus even on its crap tires. It feels much better than the ST did with regards to chassis/suspension stiffness.
Lminette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 01:14 AM   #88
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2013 STI Sport-tech

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
It's not fanboyism it's my preference. If you prefer FWD then fine. I prefer all or rwd. Our opinions are different it's that simple. Subaru's aren't the only cars I've ever owned or driven. Hell I found the 90 Civic SI I drove for the better part of a year more fun to drive than the ST and I enjoy my wife's skyactiv 3 as well. It holds the corners just as well as my Subarus even on its crap tires. It feels much better than the ST did with regards to chassis/suspension stiffness.
So you are attempting to convince us that you really think that a skyactiv 3 feels better than the ST in regards to chassis/suspension stiffness? Despite the ST handling better than the MS3, the skyactiv 3 is somehow a better handling car?

We get it. You don't like the ST. No need to go to absurd lengths to denounce the car as it's making me think you never drove an ST and are making this all up.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 01:39 AM   #89
Lminette
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138923
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Anaheim
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS Coupe
Satin Green Metallic

Default

I said the skyactiv 3 felt firmer and i liked it better, if you drove them back to back you'd probably agree. Not attempting to convince anyone of anything merely stating my opinion. The suspension in the ST is soft. Much softer than the 3. Numbers wise will the ST outperform due to its technology yes but I was talking about feel not performance numbers. And should you doubt here's a damn pic. And I was only .2 off the time to beat posted on the board so sod off. I wanted to like it but in the end it wasn't for me. It did have good turn in and brakes like others have said but the shifter was very vague and the suspension was too soft. Why do you jackholes have such a problem with people who have differing opinions than yours?


Last edited by Lminette; 10-11-2012 at 03:07 AM.
Lminette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 04:00 AM   #90
neg_matnik
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132389
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF Bay Area
Vehicle:
2006 WRX Wagon SGM
2003 SV1000S, 2014 DL650

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
So you are attempting to convince us that you really think that a skyactiv 3 feels better than the ST in regards to chassis/suspension stiffness? Despite the ST handling better than the MS3, the skyactiv 3 is somehow a better handling car?

We get it. You don't like the ST. No need to go to absurd lengths to denounce the car as it's making me think you never drove an ST and are making this all up.
I suspect Lminette does not like the amount of low speed damping that has been dialed in by Ford on the ST. Or maybe the initial response of the progressive springs are not to its liking either. So, he may simply perceive the car has being soft because of it.
All this suspension stuff is highly suggestive and people perceive things widely differently based on what they are used to.
But, I like to think that we all know better; it's not because a car feels soft that it does not handle properly and it's certainly not because it feels stiff that it handles properly. YMMV.
neg_matnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 09:18 AM   #91
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Just outside of Houston TX
Vehicle:
2013 F150 King Ranch
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Agreed its all perception and what we are use to

To me having driven the ST back to back with the STI they felt very similar.
Neither car will offer a smooth ride. I do not know what he is use to but for those considering the ST, and I am not any more as the back seat room is too small I think for kid seats, the ride is firm. FIRM. Not brutal but firm.

My 2011 WRX was more comfortable by a very noticeable difference.

Also IN MY OPINION the shifter is great and just plain feels natural
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 12:41 PM   #92
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Vineyard Ditch, CA
Vehicle:
2013 ...20 years
and 13 Subarus

Default

Hmm, after looking at that pic of the 'ride and rape' that parking lot looks like a dried up riverbed. Dusty as hell. I wonder how much traction those front tires were getting? Prolly not much. So to truly flog that car around cones in such a low grip setting, I'm going to reach and say the suspension was being wooooorkeeed. Also, it looks like there are undulations which would upset the chassis a fair bit and test the suspension tuning. The Evo X with Eibachs and Bilsteins have had similar gripes for settings in these conditions as well. For a nice clean track, the suspension works great.

I used to auto-x a GTI with progressive springs in similar crap lots. Very hard to tune the suspension for that sort of driving and have a capable daily driver. Just my humble observations...
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 12:51 PM   #93
Lminette
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138923
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Anaheim
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS Coupe
Satin Green Metallic

Default

Yeah the surface wasn't the best however I will say that the car did have good turn in which was definitely unexpected. And overall it felt good just a might soft to me. I understand its a fine balance but it is a performance offering and could have been firmer. Regarding the shifter when I got in it felt nicely weighted I'll admit but felt vague when driving. Also I'm not that big in progressive springs. i understand it's a comfort thing blto give the car daily driving livability but I can live with something that is stiff all the time not just when it's pushed The car is good but I expected more. I never said it was crap. I just wouldn't buy one.
Lminette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 01:58 PM   #94
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Vineyard Ditch, CA
Vehicle:
2013 ...20 years
and 13 Subarus

Default

Turn in attributed to the torque vectoring?
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 02:01 PM   #95
Lminette
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138923
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Anaheim
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS Coupe
Satin Green Metallic

Default

I'd assume so. I'm not a fan of electronic aids but it worked. Give me mechanical any day.
Lminette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 02:15 PM   #96
FaastLegacy
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 11671
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
I said the skyactiv 3 felt firmer and i liked it better, if you drove them back to back you'd probably agree. Not attempting to convince anyone of anything merely stating my opinion. The suspension in the ST is soft. Much softer than the 3. Numbers wise will the ST outperform due to its technology yes but I was talking about feel not performance numbers. And should you doubt here's a damn pic. And I was only .2 off the time to beat posted on the board so sod off. I wanted to like it but in the end it wasn't for me. It did have good turn in and brakes like others have said but the shifter was very vague and the suspension was too soft. Why do you jackholes have such a problem with people who have differing opinions than yours?

You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but it seems to be running contrary to everything else I've read about the car. The fact that you're basing your opinion off of a ride and drive experience around a parking lot with a bunch of beaten to hell, prepro models might be the explanation.

I'm also having a hard time believing a garden variety Mazda 3 is stiffer and handles better than a high performance model of the Focus. That just doesn't make sense to me, especially in light of everything else I've read about the car.
FaastLegacy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 02:21 PM   #97
Lminette
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138923
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Anaheim
Vehicle:
2000 2.5RS Coupe
Satin Green Metallic

Default

I didn't say anywhere that it handles better. If you read I said it feels firmer that is all. I've never driven the 3 in anger on a course and never will so a direct handling comparison can never be made. The 3 does feel planted on interchanges at speed though. It feels as sable and planted as any Subaru I've ever driven.The suspension on the 3 just feels firmer than what I felt on the ST.
Lminette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 02:23 PM   #98
REX8
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 24038
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Godspeed Cale...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Ford probably gives great junket.


"What? I'm not invited to the hunket"












Anyone?
REX8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 04:41 PM   #99
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Vineyard Ditch, CA
Vehicle:
2013 ...20 years
and 13 Subarus

Default

^ Hank Azaria?
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2012, 07:44 PM   #100
REX8
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 24038
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Godspeed Cale...
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
^ Hank Azaria?
REX8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.