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Old 10-15-2012, 12:43 PM   #126
Rootus
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Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
If 2% are injured one way and 1.5% are injured another way, that is a 25% reduction, but in reality, it is in the noise of one extreme of the data. Just keeping some perspective here.
Oh, I completely agree. I noticed that too. A decrease from 2% to 1% is great, but you make a very valid point. ~5000 lives saved sounds great, but considering that's over a 12 year time frame and there are 10s of millions of kids... well, it's completely correct to put it in the realm of 'diminishing returns.'

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My kid LOVED being able to see the road and what is coming. Just the act of turning him around made him able to take 4 hours trips back home with ease. I could not wait for him to turn 1. WE actually waited until 13 months. He was running around by then.
That's perfectly valid. I was just curious, that's all. My brother turned his kid around at 1 year because she gets horribly car sick when rear facing. I can't say I wouldn't do exactly the same thing. And given how much my daughter hates riding in her seat, and the hell that makes for multi-hour car trips, believe me I'm receptive to your point.

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I like these studies, as it provides useful information. It allows me to pick what is right for my situation. For instance, belt on neck, BAD. Belt above pelvis on torso, BAD. Those are not refutable. Those are not data driven. Those are FACT. There are no variables I can manipulate to make those suggestions look one way or the other. Those are BAD, and my child will not be subjected to either.
I wonder what ever happened to the Freakonomics claim that boosters did not statistically improve the outcome over just using belts. Maybe that's been refuted by now, or we have better boosters. Took them some effort to find someone that would even let them do the testing.

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OTOH, If keeping your kids in the rear facing seat until 2 is good, why not 3. I am sure you could show data showing it would be beneficial.
I think Volvo did exactly that. Something like 7 years old, if my memory isn't completely fubar.

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In that case, why do they not make all passengers ride in them. It would also be an improvement on safety.
You can certainly find people who ride in the back seat as adults because it's noticeably safer. I'd not do it because I'd hurl all over the place, but some folks are okay with it and the uptick in safety is worth it.

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What is enough?
I agree, it's a balance. If I can get a tiny increase in safety for zero increase in effort, then the safety still wins. I think you made good points. I was just curious, because the only person I know who flouts safety devices in his car does it for a completely pointless reason.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:40 PM   #127
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You guys should read these posts back to yourselves.....the OT (or borderline OT) threads/posts have morphed from proper upgrades/tuning and driving techniques to CAR SEATS and CHILD SAFETY!!

Can't ANYONE have fun anymore (especially in a thread regarding a still-fairly-rare factory produced hot hatch)?
Talking future transportation safety management for the results of some puds' procreative activities is NOT fun. Trust me.

...and comparing ever-increasing safety mandates to the holocaust is....man....come on

I would much rather these discussions were in relevantly titled threads so I could AVOID them.

Yes, I am in a Monday mood.

Back on topic, has anyone seen real world mpg numbers for this?
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:49 PM   #128
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My buddy works for ford and he inspects all the new cars as they get dropped off, know you cannot test drive one at the dealer ships here for the northshore because they are already bought. He got the chance to drive the new Focus ST. Its heavy, Cool styling ; ), and a nice set of turbo gauges like the old subaru sti option. I raced it with his SRT 4 2005 and the ST got smoked. Long Story short, i still love subarus.


Friday I went to see Looper and Saturday I saw Argo. They were both great movies but Argo was better. Long story short I still love The Avengers.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:25 PM   #129
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Friday I went to see Looper and Saturday I saw Argo. They were both great movies but Argo was better. Long story short I still love The Avengers.
Junior Mints are WAYYYY better than Milk Duds.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:27 PM   #130
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Friday I went to see Looper and Saturday I saw Argo. They were both great movies but Argo was better. Long story short I still love The Avengers.
The ST is heavy and slow and he'd rather own a WRX.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:29 PM   #131
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...and comparing ever-increasing safety mandates to the holocaust is....man....come on
Obviously I was being 100% serious.


.. and yes, some of us have children and it defines our transportation choices. It sucks. Small back seats ruin middle-aged lives.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:04 PM   #132
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The ST is heavy and slow and he'd rather own a WRX.
The ST handles better, looks better, has an interior that you don't have to be ashamed of. Bottom line is that he's brand loyal.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:52 PM   #133
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I prefer an interior without a million buttons thanks.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:31 PM   #134
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Like, say a 2005 WRX? Why is everyone changing cars so often?

When I was two and up I rode in the front seat of Mom's Beetle. It might have had seat belts.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:04 PM   #135
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My parents just threw me in the back of our Gran Torino station wagon, sheetmetal floor in the back to just slide around on. The RS interior didn't really wow me over any Subaru made in the last couple years.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:07 AM   #136
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Woah... so sorry I opened that can about the car seat thing. Anyway, did you get a chance to feel the interior pieces? Odd question, but I hate hard plastic in areas that I can touch. The se model focus is alright in that respect in the front... except that the doors don't have padded plastic on the doors near the window... even my 06 wrx has that. I know even a good number of Japanese cars started going all 90's chrysler, probably because of the exchange rate and many domestic going the opposite direction. The new escape is basically a stretched and more expensive focus but it has more padded plastic than the focus. Having never seen an st in person I'd like to know the status of this. Hopefully its not like the explorer where everything feels nice in the front row but the plebes in the back get the hard stuff.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:13 AM   #137
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Also, a few more questions. Does the car have a normal turn signal stalk... as In, does it click back to center after a turn? Newer fords like the explorer have a weird stalk that is just an electronic lever. Is not huge but driving a rental drove me nuts because of that. Anything else exceptional to note?

Can't help to wonder what a good tune will do to this car. With the tech it has, I'm sure its capable of at least another 30hp. Apples to oranges but my flex eco boost gained 60whp and 1mpg with just a tune.
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:45 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Zaeroh
Also, a few more questions. Does the car have a normal turn signal stalk... as In, does it click back to center after a turn? Newer fords like the explorer have a weird stalk that is just an electronic lever. Is not huge but driving a rental drove me nuts because of that. Anything else exceptional to note?

Can't help to wonder what a good tune will do to this car. With the tech it has, I'm sure its capable of at least another 30hp. Apples to oranges but my flex eco boost gained 60whp and 1mpg with just a tune.
The electronic turn signal stalks are fairly common on German cars these days. They function differently, are cheaper to make and are more reliable. You'll get used to them.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:29 AM   #139
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I have to question the more reliable aspect of it.

No way to tell if that is true buddy.
I have had classic cars most of my life
My current Datsun is 42 years old and still uses the OEM turn stalk. I have serious doubts that today's over gadgeted electronics will ever last for that long. Terminals wear out and replacements become obsolete as fast as they came out.

Electronics are great but a mechanical system in lots of cases is far more robust.
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:58 AM   #140
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I had a Volvo C30, which is the same platform as the Focus, and other than the seats in the ST it is a superior car in every way. Get the R Design with the Polestar tune and make a few tweaks here and there and it's a great little car. The interior is much cleaner and softer and the turbo 5 pot is a hoot to wind up and let 'er rip. If you really need four doors the ST is a good choice but like was said the LSD is almost necessary (with the Volvo too) and can be had if you order it from Europe. I'm not sure if the Quaife fits the ST but you should be able to get the Ford Revoknuckle set up shipped over.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:01 AM   #141
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correction, you had the chassis of LAST generation Focus, this is a whole new car.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:10 AM   #142
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I'm not sure if the Quaife fits the ST but you should be able to get the Ford Revoknuckle set up shipped over.
Revoknuckle is a front suspension design, not a LSD.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:31 AM   #143
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:59 AM   #144
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Gravity you do know that the 2012 focus is not built on the C1 platform

It is fords new global architecture. He new focus was not built on an 8 year old platform
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:16 AM   #145
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Yeah I know, it's the new Global C. Take a look underneath the "new" Focus and see if you can tell much difference between it and the Volvo P1. As the sale was becoming imminent Ford borrowed a lot of what Volvo had done to increase safety ratings and stiffen the chassis. I know a few guys that have the Quaife LSD and a few that also have the RS suspension set up in their C's. There are more similarities than differences.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:52 AM   #146
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Friday I went to see Looper and Saturday I saw Argo. They were both great movies but Argo was better. Long story short I still love The Avengers.

Dont Cry, you are on a Subaru Forum.
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Old 10-17-2012, 07:08 AM   #147
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I'm reposting since we lost this topic now. I think this particular reviewer is pushing the cars more aggressively and actually gets to the limit of the ST whereas the autocar guys seem to be just cruising around the track and may not get to a point when the LSD would help.

Point is, with no LSD, the car has lower grip in corners. And, since in theory, putting so much pwr in a FWD platform is not a great idea, the car should have every possible tool to help with traction and driveability. Ford decided to cut cost and went with electronic instead of mechanical solution.



As some of us said before, no LSD for the Focus ST is really going to kill performance and driving pleasure.

Here's the EVO's comparison of Focus ST with a Vauxhall. At the end, the reviewer says: Focus ST is not as much fun/is slower and it needs a LSD. He also complains of the lack of traction mid corner....

By the way, impressive "drifts" with FWD cars in this review, with this level of skill, I'm willing to agree with anything that he says lol.

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Old 10-17-2012, 07:44 AM   #148
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what i wanna know is this....

is there an available lsd unit that will fit and work with the focus st???
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Old 10-17-2012, 09:10 AM   #149
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I'm reposting since we lost this topic now. I think this particular reviewer is pushing the cars more aggressively and actually gets to the limit of the ST whereas the autocar guys seem to be just cruising around the track and may not get to a point when the LSD would help.

Point is, with no LSD, the car has lower grip in corners. And, since in theory, putting so much pwr in a FWD platform is not a great idea, the car should have every possible tool to help with traction and driveability. Ford decided to cut cost and went with electronic instead of mechanical solution.



As some of us said before, no LSD for the Focus ST is really going to kill performance and driving pleasure.

Here's the EVO's comparison of Focus ST with a Vauxhall. At the end, the reviewer says: Focus ST is not as much fun/is slower and it needs a LSD. He also complains of the lack of traction mid corner....

By the way, impressive "drifts" with FWD cars in this review, with this level of skill, I'm willing to agree with anything that he says lol.

Track Battle: Ford Focus ST v Vauxhall Astra VXR - YouTube
IF this thread has proven anything, you should not take one persons opinion, and cite it as fact. It is like arguing which Mark Twain Novel is better. The answer is purely subjective to the feel and emotions of what the reviewer likes and expects.

We all go into every test drive with baggage, expectations, and desires. These taint our opinions of the cars. Knowing the metrics used to compare against helps.

for that review you pointed out, there is another between the same two cars, and the reviewer said the focus is far more fun to drive. Are you saying your youtube poster is more credible than my youtube poster?

That is nonsense. Neither is better or worse.

To some people magazine numbers rule the roost. Others do not care so much. Two different articles have called the focus ST the greatest all around hot hatch in the world today. No two ways about it, those are big words. But it still is not for everybody. Those who live on a track or like others to believe they do, will not buy this car because of its 'limitations' which will probably never surface ever on a daily drive at legal or even near legal speeds.

I posted my review of the car as honest as I could and gave you what I was comparing it to to help in anybodies personal reference frame.

I do not really care what jane or John youtube say.
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Old 10-17-2012, 10:21 AM   #150
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^ Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. By far the best.
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