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Old 10-09-2012, 12:43 AM   #1
cm1wrx
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Default hybrid build rough idle

I know there are several threads about this issue..... I've read through many but haven't found a setup like mine having this issue...... so here goes.

I just started my hybrid build for the first time. Car fired right up, ran fine for 20-30 seconds, then started to idle really rough. Motor sounds like its "chugging" and like it wants to die out but doesn't. I've checked all my electrical connections, vacuum lines, fuel system, etc. and found nothing wrong. The only thing I can think is that I have an issue with my map not necessarily being appropriate enough for this setup.

Here's the situation:
The map I am running is a protune from Jorge (riftswrx, P&L, etc.) for a stock internals 2.0l with 750cc injectors, (stock location turbo (18G), stock TGV's, FMIC all the normal supporting mods and so forth.)

The setup I have now is a 2.5l (forged pistons, rods, etc.) with modified 2.0l heads (combustion chambers cnc'd to match Sti heads, ported, with STi cams, SS valves (stock size) and Brian Crower springs, titanium retainers and so forth). I also have a rotated setup with a custom intake that I built (sort of a copy of Treadstone's design....) and TGV deletes (gutted and ported).

The injectors are still the 750's from the first setup (using only for initial break-in then swapping them out for 1300's).

Being that the map is set for the injectors, I thought it might have a chance for at least a start up and idle with light (under boost) driving. Was I expecting too much? Seems like a lot of people have started their hybrid builds on old maps with no issues..... Should I look into a new "start up" map?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:04 AM   #2
02bugeye1
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The compression would have changed still don't see that causing rough idle I ran my hybrid on Cobb stage 2 which was initially tuned for the 2.0 without rough idle
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:40 PM   #3
cm1wrx
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Compression should be the same due to the combustion chamber work. Maybe dirty injectors? It did sit for a long time. I don't have any codes right now other than for the TGV deletes..... I would think I would get misfire codes if an injector was not functioning properly..... any thoughts?
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:19 PM   #4
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Get a base map set up and remove the tgv codes. I have seen the tgv code throw cars in limp mode before
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Old 10-10-2012, 12:46 AM   #5
cm1wrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsubiemod View Post
Get a base map set up and remove the tgv codes. I have seen the tgv code throw cars in limp mode before
Wow! Didn't think TGV's could do that! Thanks for the info. I did throw in a can of seafoam tonight just in case. Never seen a subaru in limp mode. Can you describe what happens? Is it just reduced power or does it actually affect how the engine runs?

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:17 AM   #6
wrxsubiemod
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Not too sure on specifics. It should allow the car to idle fine but reduce boost and pull the timing.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:37 AM   #7
cm1wrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsubiemod View Post
Not too sure on specifics. It should allow the car to idle fine but reduce boost and pull the timing.

Doesn't sound like the issue I am having then because the car won't idle well at all. I started it yesterday and tried to hold it at 2,000 rpm and it felt, almost like it was misfiring but the check engine light wasn't flashing. Thinking about pulling the plugs out this evening to check them out.


Any other thoughts?
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:07 PM   #8
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The maf might need to be rescaled because if the custom intake.
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:57 AM   #9
cm1wrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samson05 View Post
The maf might need to be rescaled because if the custom intake.
I thought about that but it still seems strange..... should at least idle I would have thought.

Anyone have any other thoughts on this?

I contacted P and L for a start up map. Don't know if that's the right path but had to try something. I will follow up once I hear from them.

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 10-14-2012, 05:39 PM   #10
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The startup map should help you.i mentioned the maf because I have a built hybrid(280 cams,tgv deletes...) and had similar issues.the larger diameter maf caused my car to run really lean at idle,it was so bad it threw a code.once I scaled the maf it ran great
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:01 PM   #11
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disconnect the MAF and see if it idle's better.
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Old 10-18-2012, 01:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRick View Post
disconnect the MAF and see if it idle's better.
Tried it... didn't really change much. Still idle hunts and shakes like its misfiring. Still waiting for P and L to get me a start up map. Supposedly I will have it Friday or Monday.

Any more thoughts?

Thanks,
Chris
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:13 AM   #13
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What plugs are you using?
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:03 PM   #14
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Override the TGV code, it will definitly cause problems, but it shouldn't make your idle rough.

Bad coil pack?? If the pack is on the way out it can sometimes cause rough idle but not throw a code. I only know one way to test for this... because you can't measure the resistance through the pack

I keep one around that I know to be good. Replace them one at a time with the "good" coil and test the idle after each one to isolate the bad coil.


Just a thought
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:49 AM   #15
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UPDATE: Finally received the start up map from P and L. Loaded it along with the new V2 accessport. Car idles marginally better than before. It doesn't seem to want to die out however it still shakes and stumbles as bad as ever. Not sure what to do at this point. I pulled all the plugs. They all look good and are gapped correctly. Pulled off the CAI to make sure everything was clear and the maf looked good. No CEL anymore with the new map (TGV codes turned off) Checked the codes just in case (even without a check engine light). I got two codes for TGV's but nothing else. Sprayed break cleaner several places while the engine was running to check for vacuum leaks. NOTHING!

Any other thoughts out there???
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:50 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredperry View Post
What plugs are you using?
Denso Iridium
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:51 AM   #17
cm1wrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flembud View Post
Override the TGV code, it will definitly cause problems, but it shouldn't make your idle rough.

Bad coil pack?? If the pack is on the way out it can sometimes cause rough idle but not throw a code. I only know one way to test for this... because you can't measure the resistance through the pack

I keep one around that I know to be good. Replace them one at a time with the "good" coil and test the idle after each one to isolate the bad coil.


Just a thought
Thought about that... figured the plugs would show something if the coil was intermittent.... Plugs were clean so I can only assume the coil packs are good.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:33 AM   #18
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Have you checked to see if your timing belt is still aligned??? Make sure not off a tooth or something???
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cm1wrx View Post
I know there are several threads about this issue..... I've read through many but haven't found a setup like mine having this issue...... so here goes.

I just started my hybrid build for the first time. Car fired right up, ran fine for 20-30 seconds, then started to idle really rough. Motor sounds like its "chugging" and like it wants to die out but doesn't. I've checked all my electrical connections, vacuum lines, fuel system, etc. and found nothing wrong. The only thing I can think is that I have an issue with my map not necessarily being appropriate enough for this setup.

Here's the situation:
The map I am running is a protune from Jorge (riftswrx, P&L, etc.) for a stock internals 2.0l with 750cc injectors, (stock location turbo (18G), stock TGV's, FMIC all the normal supporting mods and so forth.)

The setup I have now is a 2.5l (forged pistons, rods, etc.) with modified 2.0l heads (combustion chambers cnc'd to match Sti heads, ported, with STi cams, SS valves (stock size) and Brian Crower springs, titanium retainers and so forth). I also have a rotated setup with a custom intake that I built (sort of a copy of Treadstone's design....) and TGV deletes (gutted and ported).

The injectors are still the 750's from the first setup (using only for initial break-in then swapping them out for 1300's).

Being that the map is set for the injectors, I thought it might have a chance for at least a start up and idle with light (under boost) driving. Was I expecting too much? Seems like a lot of people have started their hybrid builds on old maps with no issues..... Should I look into a new "start up" map?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Chris
TGV codes put your car into limp mode, plus your custom intake probably has your MAF scaling all screwed up
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:50 AM   #20
berge56
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The MAF not being scaled for your custom intake is most likely your problem. Clean your MAF while your at it too.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:06 PM   #21
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Any idea whats wrong yet?

Subscribed for similar issue, Good luck man
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:56 AM   #22
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Was just reading some tech junkie stuff and a short paragraph made me think of this thread....

"IDLE SPEED CONTROL IAC units are stepper motors under computer control that work to stabilize engine RPM at idle. If the IAC is configured wrong, it may do nothing, or it may hunt. Hunting occurs when the computer is slow to react to a change in idle speed, but then overreacts, and idle speed can surge up and down forever, failing to stabilize. Some EMSs now have the ability to configure high and low thresholds for corrective action, possibly depending on how wrong idle speed is and how fast it got so wrong. Work with the IAC parameters until idle stays where you want it." 2003 Jeff Hartman's "How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems"

Check out the IAC Solenoid, sometimes they fail. ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE SAT FOR A WHILE. But in reality it could be one of many, or a combination of things....

Random late night thoughts...
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:20 AM   #23
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sounds like the IAC or possibly intake manifold air leak.. New gaskets and all? I slapped a temporary intake manifold & reused gasket on while I was getting my STi pinks cleaned up and flow tested by DW. Chugged like a MOFO.. did not like to idle... no bueno. New gasket installed and cleaned the IAC.. Smooth Sailing.
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:20 AM   #24
cm1wrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99imprezd View Post
sounds like the IAC or possibly intake manifold air leak.. New gaskets and all? I slapped a temporary intake manifold & reused gasket on while I was getting my STi pinks cleaned up and flow tested by DW. Chugged like a MOFO.. did not like to idle... no bueno. New gasket installed and cleaned the IAC.. Smooth Sailing.
Sorry, its been a while since I've updated this thread. No solution yet. I have been busy with other projects. Going to try and figure this out within the next few days. Picked up a compression tester the other day. Thinking my head builder might have made a mistake with the valves, which a leak down test should verify. Also, thought I heard a vacuum leak while it was running so I plan to do a little more checking there after the compression and leak down tests. I will post results within the next couple of days. IAC is still on my mind as well however I talked to Paul at P and L and he thinks its mechanical so I'm going to start there.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:10 PM   #25
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Well i also have been having some wierd IDle stumbles ob my recently rebuilt hybrid,
Ive got 257 block,
forged weisco pistons,
stock ej207 heads
1000cc injectors,
400 gph pump,
k&N cone filter intake
2.4 perrin inlet,
3.0Xtr dominator
I have changed to NEW
MAF
PLUGS
COil Packs,
cleaned IAVC and NEw gasket

CAr starts and idles fine until warmed up, then sudenly Stumbles as if its going to cut off- idle droppig to 300-400 rpm then picks back up to 825, then a few minutes again stumbles.
THis happens with Ac on and same thign with AC off.

Currenlty due to HEad Crank case Hybrid issue, i have One set of the crank case vents currently venting to Atmosphere.
Other pair are T'd together and run through a Grimmspeed OAS and then returned to the Turbi inlet.

ANy thing else i can check?
I have checked over and over for vacuumn leaks and cannot find any.
And my car Stalls out many of the times come to a stop.
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